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Friend doing cocaine - 8/2/2008 12:51:11 PM
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Mrs.X
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Today we're going to a BBQ at our friends' house. She's sorta like my best friend, but not really. We just hang out a lot, and I was in her wedding last month. She's agnostic, and we're pretty close, but there is only so close you can get to someone who is not Christian, ya know cause it's hard to relate? I think she's doing cocaine again, (and hiding it from everyone including her hubby) but I don't know if I should approach her about it. Our friendship can't last if she continues, and her brand spankin' new marriage will certainly fail if she continues. I know she did it a few years ago before I met her, but then getting pregnant with her son saved her from that.
She doesn't know I know.
I have not read a book recommended to me yet about Boundaries, and that's something I struggle with (co-dependancy), so I'm not sure if I should even approach her about it. Is that my duty as her friend? Her hubby, other friend and neighbor have accused her of it recently. I don't think they approached her in a nice way. Maybe I should write her an e-mail?
Thanks.
_____________________________
-Stina
From Sweet Grass to the Packin' House
A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. -Proverbs 15:1
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RE: Friend doing cocaine - 8/2/2008 1:34:40 PM
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Kat_D
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How do you know she's doing it again?
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"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Friend doing cocaine - 8/2/2008 1:47:24 PM
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Mrs.X
Posts: 2957
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She seemed over zealous when telling me about the people who accused her of doing it. She's 20, so she's kind of immature...it almost reminds me of when I was hiding something from my parents when I was teen and I was over-zealous in trying to convince them I wasn't, like bad-mouthing pot-heads or something. She always takes her purse to the bathroom, and she noticed I noticed her taking her purse to the bathroom, and she started complaining about her period. But, she just got her period on her wedding day on July 10th. I guess she forgot. When she's in a good mood, she has the dry sniffles, and when she's in a bad mood, she doesn't have the sniffles. Her ego (when I think she is on it) is increased, pupils dialated. She's normally pretty humble, but she has gotten a lot of confidence lately, and it's false confidence, not things that are actually true. I think that's what separates ego from self confidence, right? She complains about her allergies when she has the sniffles, but somehow she only has these allergies when she comes over during the day, and not in the evening with her hubby. She also asked me to help her get the money out of her paypal account without her hubby knowing. I told her I didn't think it was a good idea to hide stuff like that from him, and so she told me she wanted to buy some stuff for her (clothes, shoes whatever), and I said I didn't know how to get the money out of the account, but I'm sure she could find the stuff on Ebay and Amazon, and just use paypal that way. She told me nevermind.
It's a bunch of stuff that just keeps adding up.
_____________________________
-Stina
From Sweet Grass to the Packin' House
A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. -Proverbs 15:1
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RE: Friend doing cocaine - 8/2/2008 6:09:26 PM
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agapetos
Posts: 5393
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From: This side of the lil duck pond!
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quote:
She always takes her purse to the bathroom, and she noticed I noticed her taking her purse to the bathroom, and she started complaining about her period. But, she just got her period on her wedding day on July 10th. I guess she forgot. Which was 3 weeks ago and falls within what it normal for some women ~ added to which, the stresses associated with the wedding may have contributed to her having unusual cycles.
And I know quite a few people who suffer from seasonal allergies during the day but they lessen at night, especially if they've been in their house for a few hours, instead of out and about.
Consider how good a friend this lady is to you, and you to her and either wait until you have proof positive (either way) or call her on it now.
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Wisdom is not using them in fruit salads!
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RE: Friend doing cocaine - 8/2/2008 7:03:13 PM
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manda59
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mrs.X
I have not read a book recommended to me yet about Boundaries, and that's something I struggle with (co-dependancy), so I'm not sure if I should even approach her about it. Is that my duty as her friend? Her hubby, other friend and neighbor have accused her of it recently. I don't think they approached her in a nice way. Maybe I should write her an e-mail?
Christina
Before I reply, I'd like to ask you a question:
- What would be your aim in approaching her about it?
_____________________________
"Once again....drum roll please! Manda is right"
doinkdom, October 2008
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RE: Friend doing cocaine - 8/3/2008 12:13:07 AM
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Mrs.X
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Aga, I meant to say the purse in the bathroom thing went on a week ago...that's kinda soon I think. I don't have concrete proof, but I do know what cocaine is like and what happens to people when they use.
Manda, I want to bring it up because I want to offer to help her. I don't think it's been going on long...maybe a couple months at the most. I think she was using it to drop a few pounds before the wedding, and to help give her the energy to do wedding planning stuff. It's not too late to easily drop it without much effort since it's only been going on a short while.
Despite our differences, I really do love her and her family, and I want the best for them. She and her hubby are perfect for eachother, and I just know this will ruin everything. If something doesn't happen, it will get worse and worse and harder to quit.
Chantelle, thanks for your imput. I don't think it's been going on long enough for her to require something like NA, although I'm not knockin' the program. I don't know how she feels yet, and she may want a program like that. Like in my response to Manda, I think she was looking for some quick weight-loss and energy to complete wedding-planning stuff. I used cocaine myself on and off, usually 6 months at a time over 5 years ago. It wasn't too bad to drop it, cigarettes are a lot harder.
_____________________________
-Stina
From Sweet Grass to the Packin' House
A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. -Proverbs 15:1
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RE: Friend doing cocaine - 8/3/2008 12:55:03 AM
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manda59
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mrs.X
Manda, I want to bring it up because I want to offer to help her.
What kind of help can you offer her?
_____________________________
"Once again....drum roll please! Manda is right"
doinkdom, October 2008
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RE: Friend doing cocaine - 8/3/2008 1:30:31 AM
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Mrs.X
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Help to keep her accountable if she wants to stop, offer advice, tips, anything since I've BTDT. I still have my AA Big Book, and I am still familiar with the Steps.
It seems that when the other people approached her about it, they were more like shaking their finger instead of wanting to help out of love. Of course, her hubby I think a lot of it was out of fear, since it will destroy them. And, then of course if their toddler ever found it......I don't even wanna think about that.
I really don't want to lose her as a friend, and I certainly can't keep her close if she continues since my little one will be weaning soon, so I don't even wanna know it's there and available. She is the only friend I've had since middle school that I literally tell ANYTHING to without fear of judgement. She doesn't understand "my religious stuff" as she calls it, but she listens and supports me.
_____________________________
-Stina
From Sweet Grass to the Packin' House
A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. -Proverbs 15:1
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RE: Friend doing cocaine - 8/4/2008 6:55:48 PM
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Chantelle913
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So basically by you using drugs yourself ( If I am reading that you wrote to me right) that you can tell her what you did to overcome cocaine. I am positive that it is hard but its got o be something that she is willing to do herself. But I am sure with prayers and God's help she wil over come it very fast.....
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RE: Friend doing cocaine - 8/4/2008 8:03:09 PM
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manda59
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From: Hampshire, UK
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mrs.X
Help to keep her accountable if she wants to stop
Thing is, you can't make her want to stop. And just confronting her, even in a nice way, isn't going to make her want to stop.
quote:
offer advice, tips, anything since I've BTDT
But unless she is ready to stop, she won't want any of that.
quote:
..I still have my AA Big Book, and I am still familiar with the Steps.
I personally would not advocate speaking to her directly about it. This is her issue, her "dirty little secret", and even the drug itself will make her want to keep it to herself. The first sign that she wants to get help, is ready to get help, would be if she said something to you herself, without being asked about it. If you try and bring it to the surface before she is ready, it could bring up deep fear and shame, and put the friendship on really rocky ground, and could even cause her to get even deeper into it.
OR, it could shame her into trying to get well, but cause her to start to unhealthily depend on you, to make you her reason for getting well, which would not work at all. Her reason has to be herself, not anyone else, or it will just not happen.
quote:
I really don't want to lose her as a friend, and I certainly can't keep her close if she continues since my little one will be weaning soon, so I don't even wanna know it's there and available. She is the only friend I've had since middle school that I literally tell ANYTHING to without fear of judgement. She doesn't understand "my religious stuff" as she calls it, but she listens and supports me.
Christina, is it possible (and I am not saying this to be mean) that there is an element of self-interest in your concern? That you want her to be ok so that you two can still be friends?
Even if you confronted her and she reacted ok, just how much could you help her? Do you honestly realise how much time and effort it takes to help an addict? And how much wisdom is needed to negotiate all the addictive behaviour that is there as well as the actual substance abuse? You have a husband and two young children - I honestly would find it hard to believe that you would have enough free time to devote to helping her. I also think that it would be way too much pressure on you, if you were the only help she was receiving.
Just to give you some background, my dh and I are currently helping a man from church with his recovery. He came off crack cocaine and heroin in October, and is under the care of our local Drugs & Alcohol Unit, plus he has a Probation Officer and a Key Worker (like a social worker). They provide him with professional care and support, and we provide him with friendship and "out of hours" support. And even that is quite a responsibility sometimes. I phoned him tonight and he told me that an addict friend had just dropped by. I could detect stress in his voice and asked him if he'd like me to come round so that the friend would leave, and he said yes. So I did, and it was fine. But then my children are 19 and 14, and my husband was also home. This guy has relapsed 3 times in the last 9 months, and each time he has told us. Anyone who knows addicts will understand just how incredible that is, as most times people keep that kind of thing to themselves. But he trusts us to react in the right way.
We've helped addicts before, when we've been their only support, and it was HARD. I wouldn't ever want to do that again. It's too much for us, and it's also not healthy for them. Addicts need to be helped by people who have healthy boundaries in place, and professionals naturally have those.
What might be helpful is if you research what help would be available locally if she decided she wanted it, then put it all together and keep it safe, and pray that whatever is hidden will come out, and that if the Lord wants you to be there for her, she will come to you herself, or that He will bring things to a head so that she has to turn to you for help. I'd say she needs counselling - not just for the drug abuse, but for the deeper reasons behind it. And coming off cocaine without dealing with those other deeper issues would likely mean any recovery would be only temporary....
You could maybe even also talk to her about your own recovery, and see if that draws her out at all. But I would honestly advise against confronting her directly as it could do more harm than good. Just pray, and pray some more. Pray that what is hidden will come out into the light, and then be there for her with the information she will need for getting help.
_____________________________
"Once again....drum roll please! Manda is right"
doinkdom, October 2008
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RE: Friend doing cocaine - 8/5/2008 12:43:35 PM
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jaimestarcross
Posts: 779
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quote:
She doesn't know I know.
I have not read a book recommended to me yet about Boundaries, and that's something I struggle with (co-dependancy), so I'm not sure if I should even approach her about it. Is that my duty as her friend? Her hubby, other friend and neighbor have accused her of it recently. I don't think they approached her in a nice way. Maybe I should write her an e-mail?
Since her husband is aware of the accusations against his wife it's best to let him
deal with the confronting --- personally, I'd make sure he has the necessary information/treatment (for cocaine addiction)in his hands and remain the prayerful friend/supporter... who uses discernment to navigate through difficult situations involving friends/loved ones.
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RE: Friend doing cocaine - 8/5/2008 2:03:25 PM
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Mrs.X
Posts: 2957
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: Newberg, OR
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quote:
Thing is, you can't make her want to stop. And just confronting her, even in a nice way, isn't going to make her want to stop. But unless she is ready to stop, she won't want any of that.
You're right about that. And, I think I knew that deep down, but something in me made me feel like I could make a difference. It's really kind of stupid to think that I could stop her, and I remember learning that.
quote:
Christina, is it possible (and I am not saying this to be mean) that there is an element of self-interest in your concern? That you want her to be ok so that you two can still be friends?
There is some of that. I do love her and want what's best for her family, but at the same time, what is best for her and her family happens to also be what is best for me. It's not completely selfish motives, but in part, it is.
I also have an addictive personality, and I really need to keep away from slippery places, slippery people and slippery things, or I just might fall. It's easy now because I'm breastfeeding, but what's going to happen when he is weaned? What if she offers me some? I don't know if I can say no. Cocaine is like a disease, one person starts, and then everyone else around them tries it once and before you know it, you got a bunch dopes. Robert doesn't want it around him either because he used to freebase.
quote:
Even if you confronted her and she reacted ok, just how much could you help her? Do you honestly realise how much time and effort it takes to help an addict? And how much wisdom is needed to negotiate all the addictive behaviour that is there as well as the actual substance abuse? You have a husband and two young children - I honestly would find it hard to believe that you would have enough free time to devote to helping her. I also think that it would be way too much pressure on you, if you were the only help she was receiving.
Just to give you some background, my dh and I are currently helping a man from church with his recovery. He came off crack cocaine and heroin in October, and is under the care of our local Drugs & Alcohol Unit, plus he has a Probation Officer and a Key Worker (like a social worker). They provide him with professional care and support, and we provide him with friendship and "out of hours" support. And even that is quite a responsibility sometimes. I phoned him tonight and he told me that an addict friend had just dropped by. I could detect stress in his voice and asked him if he'd like me to come round so that the friend would leave, and he said yes. So I did, and it was fine. But then my children are 19 and 14, and my husband was also home. This guy has relapsed 3 times in the last 9 months, and each time he has told us. Anyone who knows addicts will understand just how incredible that is, as most times people keep that kind of thing to themselves. But he trusts us to react in the right way.
We've helped addicts before, when we've been their only support, and it was HARD. I wouldn't ever want to do that again. It's too much for us, and it's also not healthy for them. Addicts need to be helped by people who have healthy boundaries in place, and professionals naturally have those.
I hadn't realized how much would go into it. I figured it would just be a matter of showing either me or her hubby her receipts from the grocery store to make sure she didn't get cash back and to go with her when she has to run arrands in McMinnville (that's where I think she has to go to get coke). She doesn't have her own debit card.
That's really amazing what you've done to help your addict friend. My dad sponsors a few guys in AA, and it does take up quite a bit of his time.
quote:
What might be helpful is if you research what help would be available locally if she decided she wanted it, then put it all together and keep it safe, and pray that whatever is hidden will come out, and that if the Lord wants you to be there for her, she will come to you herself, or that He will bring things to a head so that she has to turn to you for help. I'd say she needs counselling - not just for the drug abuse, but for the deeper reasons behind it. And coming off cocaine without dealing with those other deeper issues would likely mean any recovery would be only temporary....
You could maybe even also talk to her about your own recovery, and see if that draws her out at all. But I would honestly advise against confronting her directly as it could do more harm than good. Just pray, and pray some more. Pray that what is hidden will come out into the light, and then be there for her with the information she will need for getting help.
You're right. OK, I'll probably do that then. I prayed a week or so ago to have God show what I should do about all of this, and I ended up posting it on here. Hehehe, maybe that was my answer? I don't know if I'll talk to her about my own recovery....we're both pretty random thought-ed people, but it might make her suspicious. I'd have to wait for the right moment when the subject comes up I suppose. Thanks, Manda.
quote:
ORIGINAL: jaimestarcross
Since her husband is aware of the accusations against his wife it's best to let him
deal with the confronting --- personally, I'd make sure he has the necessary information/treatment (for cocaine addiction)in his hands and remain the prayerful friend/supporter... who uses discernment to navigate through difficult situations involving friends/loved ones.
She denied it to him (this was sometime in June), and I think he believed her. I don't think she does it around him (at least she doesn't snort it around him, she might be freebasing). When she comes over by herself she's doped up, but when he comes over with her, she's not, well, not sniffling at least. So, I really don't want to say anything to him because I don't think he really knows.
_____________________________
-Stina
From Sweet Grass to the Packin' House
A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. -Proverbs 15:1
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RE: Friend doing cocaine - 8/5/2008 10:24:08 PM
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manda59
Posts: 6024
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: Hampshire, UK
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mrs.X
You're right about that. And, I think I knew that deep down, but something in me made me feel like I could make a difference. It's really kind of stupid to think that I could stop her, and I remember learning that.
It's not stupid of you, you probably just forgot, out of concern for her.
quote:
I also have an addictive personality, and I really need to keep away from slippery places, slippery people and slippery things, or I just might fall. It's easy now because I'm breastfeeding, but what's going to happen when he is weaned? What if she offers me some? I don't know if I can say no.
WHOA! Christina, that is the biggest red flag ever. Thank you for your honestly, but WHOA! Please please listen to your own words here, and heed them.
quote:
I don't know if I'll talk to her about my own recovery....we're both pretty random thought-ed people, but it might make her suspicious.
Now that you've admitted that you yourself are still vulnerable, I don't think it's a good idea to talk about your own recovery. If she is using, she may start trying to entice you to use, to make herself feel better about using. I don't think you should make yourself vulnerable to her in any way right now. A relapsed addict often hates to have clean people around them, as it reminds them of how far they've fallen, and they so very often then try to bring that person down to their level.
Christina, you may have to let her go. I am sorry.
_____________________________
"Once again....drum roll please! Manda is right"
doinkdom, October 2008
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RE: Friend doing cocaine - 8/6/2008 12:24:36 AM
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Mrs.X
Posts: 2957
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: Newberg, OR
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That's kind of what I was thinking, Manda. That was one of the reasons I originally wanted to confront her about it.
I was thinking I might write a letter and just tell her that I'm sorry we can't continue our friendship while she is using. I'm gonna pray about it and start fasting tomorrow and see what I can get on paper.
_____________________________
-Stina
From Sweet Grass to the Packin' House
A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. -Proverbs 15:1
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RE: Friend doing cocaine - 8/6/2008 3:12:26 AM
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manda59
Posts: 6024
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: Hampshire, UK
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mrs.X
I was thinking I might write a letter and just tell her that I'm sorry we can't continue our friendship while she is using.
Christina, it's up to you of course, but that to me could seem quite manipulative. Why do you feel you need to say anything at all?
_____________________________
"Once again....drum roll please! Manda is right"
doinkdom, October 2008
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RE: Friend doing cocaine - 8/6/2008 4:25:12 AM
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Suebee77
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Christina, if you are still vulnerable yourself, you must not be around her if she's not committed to recovery and being clean. You have too much at stake and you can't afford to risk your well-being. You have your own family to think about, as well as yourself and your relationship with Jesus. I hope you will avoid being around her, and if she notices, then say something, maybe, about why you are avoiding her. She may get angry, but if you are certain that she is using, as you seem to be, then you need to stay away from her. But do pray for her a lot. 
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RE: Friend doing cocaine - 8/6/2008 11:33:30 AM
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Mrs.X
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It's hard to just avoid her because we always have opened doors. We both just drop by without notice. If she comes over, I can't just say I don't feel like hanging out today or something. I don't want her to be confused for days or weeks or however long it takes for her to figure it out, so I figure just tell her first so there is no confusion.
You never know, it might be incentive for her to quit too.
I ave another question though. Her hubby and my hubby are good friends. What should Robert say when G asks why I'm not hanging out with his wife anymore. "It's not my place to say, you should ask your wife" or something like that?
_____________________________
-Stina
From Sweet Grass to the Packin' House
A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. -Proverbs 15:1
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RE: Friend doing cocaine - 8/6/2008 12:03:40 PM
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manda59
Posts: 6024
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: Hampshire, UK
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mrs.X
It's hard to just avoid her because we always have opened doors. We both just drop by without notice. If she comes over, I can't just say I don't feel like hanging out today or something. I don't want her to be confused for days or weeks or however long it takes for her to figure it out, so I figure just tell her first so there is no confusion.
You never know, it might be incentive for her to quit too.
Sorry, you're doing it again.
IMO we cannot and should not try to manipulate an addict into quitting.
If you feel you have to say something, you don't have to be totally "in your face" about it. You could say something like "you know, things feel a bit different between us recently, *you* seem different recently, and it's doing my head in, so rather than risking saying something I shouldn't, I think I should step back from seeing you so much and give us both some space." Then if she plays dumb and asks what you are talking about, you could say something like "you know what I'm talking about, I'm not going to spell it out. It's your choice and your business, not mine. But I can't just stand around and act normally, when everything isn't normal, so that's why I'm stepping back."
quote:
What should Robert say when G asks why I'm not hanging out with his wife anymore. "It's not my place to say, you should ask your wife" or something like that?
No, because that shouts "I know but I'm not telling". He could say something like "right now, they seem to have grown apart a bit; C feels like she needs some space, it may only be for a while" or something like that. If he wants to know more, he can ask you. That might be better than him asking Robert (so long as you yourself have an answer ready).
_____________________________
"Once again....drum roll please! Manda is right"
doinkdom, October 2008
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RE: Friend doing cocaine - 8/6/2008 11:06:37 PM
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Mrs.X
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It's our past friendship with the second guy that taught me the most about drug addiction and how to talk/relate to addicts. We got close enough to learn how addicts think, and that has proved invaluable since.