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RE: The "Ice Age" - 8/5/2008 10:19:46 PM
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Carico
Posts: 531
Joined: 8/19/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bluestone
Carico: where did you go to college?
have you ever even taken a basic theology or science class?
you spout personal opinions with nothing to back them up. NADA. Scientific observation is "made up stories"?? the entire scientific community is in cahoots against God?
and DNA, genetics, etc. are a joke? Geology by well educated people is a joke compared to your personal opinions??
Your exeggis of scripture is laughable. In fact, you are doing nothing more than showing a complete lack of comprehension of truth, scripture, and science. You are on a roll.
Yes, unfortunately, like most people, I blindly believed everything scientists said because when I went to school, like most students, I automatically bought everything they said. But once I had the courage to think for myself, I saw how ridiculous their claims are. And once you stop worshiping scientists as gods you too will see why apes can't turn into human beings as most children already know. It's fun to see God make the 'wisdom" of the world look foolish. 
[Edited by moderator - TOS 6]
< Message edited by ta_mosquito -- 8/5/2008 11:11:59 PM >
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RE: The "Ice Age" - 8/5/2008 11:08:55 PM
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ta_mosquito
Posts: 11498
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: from MN, now in Ontario :D
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MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
I'd like to remind all of the TOS as it pertains here:
quote:
6. You will not harass, threaten, embarrass or distress users, either in the community itself or via personal email, phone, physical mail or in person. You will not engage in name-calling or personal attacks in the course of discussion or debate. You will not post inflammatory remarks simply for the purpose for evoking reaction or starting fights with other community members (Often referred to as "trolling"). Overall, promoting a spirit of divisiveness in the chat and forums community will not be tolerated.
- Attacking the character or motives of someone who differs with your view or denying that he or she is a Christian is unacceptable.
Saying that people who don't agree with your view "don't know Jesus at all" or mocking them by saying they don't know what the words "for," "formed," and "dust" mean are all great examples of TOS 6 violations.
Please stop the personal attacks.
Thank you!
Tricia
Forums Moderator
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RE: The "Ice Age" - 8/6/2008 11:10:07 AM
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Method
Posts: 853
Joined: 9/19/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Carico
And where are ancient accounts of snow coming down for more than 40 days that turned into ice all over the world?
I have heard of snow coming down for many, many years and not melting in the mean time. It can still be seen in many, many places.
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And you are in error. Millions of gallons of water can not only move rocks, but change terrain as well.
I am not doubting you. However, the marks left by a glacier are quite different from marks left by rushing flood waters. Massive floods do cause drop stones, but they also drop these stone sin the middle of massive sediment beds like the one seen here:
Pic
Also, floods do not produce the striations that I showed you before. Floods scour rocks smooth. They do not leave grooves.
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Because you want to deny God even though the bible's explanation for the sedimentary rock layers all over the world, rocks being found in areas where they don't naturally belong,is much more plausible than the stories of science fiction writers that can't be documented by ANYONE IN HISTORY.
The evidence denies it, and it has for 200 years. The first geologists actually went out in search for the evidence left over by Noah's Flood. They were quite disappointed. What they found instead were massive layers that could only have been produced over long time periods in relatively calm water. The fine grained shales in England are a perfect example.
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But you can't do that because then you would be affirming that God exists and then be guilty of sin.
Right . . . and you believe in Jesus just so you can eat pork sandwiches, right?
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So instead, you believe ridiculous made-up stories . . .
The striations caused by moving glaciers are not made up. The only made up story here is a global flood.
Here is another great picture of some massive striations caused by boulders caught in slow moving glaciers. No flood can produce these features.
picture
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 So the unbelief of the secular world is deliberate since it takes much effort to invent such ridiculous stories.
They aren't stories. We can observe glaciers making these features right now in the real world. What you are suffering from is called projection. You are the one who has bought into stories about talking snakes, women from ribs, and bit boats. Before you start accusing others of making up stories perhaps you should look at yourself first.
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RE: The "Ice Age" - 8/6/2008 11:17:02 AM
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Carico
Posts: 531
Joined: 8/19/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Method
quote:
ORIGINAL: Carico
And where are ancient accounts of snow coming down for more than 40 days that turned into ice all over the world?
I have heard of snow coming down for many, many years and not melting in the mean time. It can still be seen in many, many places.
quote:
And you are in error. Millions of gallons of water can not only move rocks, but change terrain as well.
I am not doubting you. However, the marks left by a glacier are quite different from marks left by rushing flood waters. Massive floods do cause drop stones, but they also drop these stone sin the middle of massive sediment beds like the one seen here:
Pic
Also, floods do not produce the striations that I showed you before. Floods scour rocks smooth. They do not leave grooves.
quote:
Because you want to deny God even though the bible's explanation for the sedimentary rock layers all over the world, rocks being found in areas where they don't naturally belong,is much more plausible than the stories of science fiction writers that can't be documented by ANYONE IN HISTORY.
The evidence denies it, and it has for 200 years. The first geologists actually went out in search for the evidence left over by Noah's Flood. They were quite disappointed. What they found instead were massive layers that could only have been produced over long time periods in relatively calm water. The fine grained shales in England are a perfect example.
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But you can't do that because then you would be affirming that God exists and then be guilty of sin.
Right . . . and you believe in Jesus just so you can eat pork sandwiches, right?
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So instead, you believe ridiculous made-up stories . . .
The striations caused by moving glaciers are not made up. The only made up story here is a global flood.
Here is another great picture of some massive striations caused by boulders caught in slow moving glaciers. No flood can produce these features.
picture
quote:
So the unbelief of the secular world is deliberate since it takes much effort to invent such ridiculous stories.
They aren't stories. We can observe glaciers making these features right now in the real world. What you are suffering from is called projection. You are the one who has bought into stories about talking snakes, women from ribs, and bit boats. Before you start accusing others of making up stories perhaps you should look at yourself first.
My beliefs come from historical verification. Your beliefs don't because they're made up in the 20th century. So they're nothing but stories that can't be verified by anyone in history. And most importantly, I agree with God. And one cannot have a better witness than God. Sorry.
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RE: The "Ice Age" - 8/6/2008 12:19:36 PM
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jeafl
Posts: 59
Joined: 9/10/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Carico
Sorry, but the errors are yours. One can't believe God and not believe him at the same time. So if Agassiz was a Darwinist, he didn't believe that God created man out of the dust of the ground. That means that he rejected God's account of creation and the Flood since no one described an ice age after the Flood.
The Bible doesn’t describe the eruption of Thera around 1500 BC or the eruption of Vesuvius in 79(?) AD, but does this mean that these events didn’t happen?
Also, the Bible doesn’t describe the death of Peter, Paul or John, but didn’t they die just the same?
Note that without a post-flood ice age, that created land bridges where sea water now lies, Creationists would have next to no explanation for explaining how humans and animals dispersed from Mount Ararat to populate the world’s scattered continents and islands.
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Secondly, ice comes from water. So if he explained the European terrain by ice, he has to first acknowledge that the land was once covered in water.
Wrong. Glaciers move forward from one end as more and more snow is added to their other end. If the earth was once totally covered with water and this water froze during an ice age the water would have frozen in place- meaning that it would not have moved things like rocks to locations where they are otherwise out of place.
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And thirdly, ancient cultures talked about a Flood where one family survived. If there was an ice age after Noah survived, that would mean that it would have been recounted somewhere in history,since Noah had more brains than an ape. But unfortunately, it is conspicuously absent which makes it made up history.
Job 38:29-30 Out of whose womb came the ice? and the hoary frost of heaven, who hath gendered it? The waters are hid as with a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen.
Why would the book of Job, written for a people that live in a predominantly warm climate, mention the face of the deep being frozen, if it isn’t a reference to an ice age?
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So either Agassiz didn't think things through too well, or your details about his beliefs are incorrect, or both.
I’ve never heard any mention that Agassiz was a Deist. But I just found on Wikipedia that his family had a history of being Protestant clergymen.
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RE: The "Ice Age" - 8/6/2008 12:46:00 PM
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Carico
Posts: 531
Joined: 8/19/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jeafl
quote:
ORIGINAL: Carico
Sorry, but the errors are yours. One can't believe God and not believe him at the same time. So if Agassiz was a Darwinist, he didn't believe that God created man out of the dust of the ground. That means that he rejected God's account of creation and the Flood since no one described an ice age after the Flood.
The Bible doesn’t describe the eruption of Thera around 1500 BC or the eruption of Vesuvius in 79(?) AD, but does this mean that these events didn’t happen?
Also, the Bible doesn’t describe the death of Peter, Paul or John, but didn’t they die just the same?
Note that without a post-flood ice age, that created land bridges where sea water now lies, Creationists would have next to no explanation for explaining how humans and animals dispersed from Mount Ararat to populate the world’s scattered continents and islands.
quote:
Secondly, ice comes from water. So if he explained the European terrain by ice, he has to first acknowledge that the land was once covered in water.
Wrong. Glaciers move forward from one end as more and more snow is added to their other end. If the earth was once totally covered with water and this water froze during an ice age the water would have frozen in place- meaning that it would not have moved things like rocks to locations where they are otherwise out of place.
quote:
And thirdly, ancient cultures talked about a Flood where one family survived. If there was an ice age after Noah survived, that would mean that it would have been recounted somewhere in history,since Noah had more brains than an ape. But unfortunately, it is conspicuously absent which makes it made up history.
Job 38:29-30 Out of whose womb came the ice? and the hoary frost of heaven, who hath gendered it? The waters are hid as with a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen.
Why would the book of Job, written for a people that live in a predominantly warm climate, mention the face of the deep being frozen, if it isn’t a reference to an ice age?
quote:
So either Agassiz didn't think things through too well, or your details about his beliefs are incorrect, or both.
I’ve never heard any mention that Agassiz was a Deist. But I just found on Wikipedia that his family had a history of being Protestant clergymen.
Notice that your quote from Job is in the present tense. So by your interpretation, then Job had to be sitting on ice when he wrote that passage.
But funny thing, Job's life is described as living in desert-like surroundings. So you have presented a perfect example of misreading the bible and making it say what scientists want it to say, not what it actually says and contradicting other passages in the bible in the process. So Job was describing the winters and God's majesty in His creation., not a global ice age. 
many atheists had family histories of believers. what matters is that Agassiz made up stories that aren't in the bible, which is playing God himself. No one who believes Jesus rejects the bible and makes up a new bible.
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RE: The "Ice Age" - 8/6/2008 3:28:57 PM
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Method
Posts: 853
Joined: 9/19/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Carico
My beliefs come from historical verification.
No they don't. They come from the Bible in the absence of any verification.
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Your beliefs don't because they're made up in the 20th century.
Those fossils and deep striations caused by glaciers are not made up. They are very real.
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And most importantly, I agree with God.
No, you blindly follow a literal reading of Genesis. Not the same thing.
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And one cannot have a better witness than God. Sorry.
Then have God come on this thread and give His witness and we will see if the testimony matches the evidence.
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RE: The "Ice Age" - 8/6/2008 7:50:32 PM
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jeafl
Posts: 59
Joined: 9/10/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Carico
Notice that your quote from Job is in the present tense. So by your interpretation, then Job had to be sitting on ice when he wrote that passage.
So? Is Job a written record of an ice age or not?
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But funny thing, Job's life is described as living in desert-like surroundings.
I am not aware of any passage in the Bible that says Job lived in a desert, but Job need not be sitting in ice to be aware that ice can be found somewhere on the earth’s surface. I live in Florida, so I don’t live in a desert, but does this mean that desert doesn’t exist in Arizona or North Africa? What makes you think Job was as ignorant about the earth’s geography as you suggest he was?
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So Job was describing the winters and God's majesty in His creation., not a global ice age.
People living in the Middle East, i.e. the people for whom the book of Job was originally written, don’t usually associate winter with ice. In comparison to climates further north, the Middle East seldom gets the right combination of cold, water and wind to have snow or ice. I live in North Florida, which is about the same latitude as Israel and like Israel we seldom get the right combination of weather to have ice or snow. But yet most Florida natives, like me, still know what ice and snow are from occasional first-hand experience. If God were to ask us where does the ice come from, we would know what he is talking about.
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RE: The "Ice Age" - 8/6/2008 7:54:43 PM
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jeafl
Posts: 59
Joined: 9/10/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Method
Those fossils and deep striations caused by glaciers are not made up. They are very real.
Has any scientists ever seen a glacier in the process of making a striation in the rocks of the earth's crust? Has it ever been shown experimentally that glaciers can move boulders from one place to another?
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RE: The "Ice Age" - 8/6/2008 8:00:30 PM
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jeafl
Posts: 59
Joined: 9/10/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Carico
So only those who believe God's Word as written are passing along what God says. But those who are here to argue with God's Word and claim that their words are more intelligent will have no one to turn to when they die because their words will pass away as quickly as they did.
Are we talking about God's Word, or merely your interpretation of it? You are a prime example of why I don’t call myself a fundamentalist. When real world observations don’t coincide with your pet interpretation of the Bible you either ignore the observations or distort them. And you get irate and hostile whenever someone doesn’t believe what you believe.
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RE: The "Ice Age" - 8/6/2008 8:59:56 PM
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Method
Posts: 853
Joined: 9/19/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Carico
he is here because he speaks to us by His word through those of us who believe it.
So we don't have a witness. We have hearsay. When you get done confusing the Bible for a deity get back to me.
I also like the part where whatever you say all of the sudden turns into the very voice of God. Ego much?
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So only those who believe God's Word as written are passing along what God says.
No, they are passing along what the biblical authors wrote down. Writing something down does not make it true.
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But those who are here to argue with God's Word and claim that their words are more intelligent will have no one to turn to when they die because their words will pass away as quickly as they did.
So the words of Buddha have survived how? Confucius? Mohammed? The countless Hindu writings? Do you really think the Bible is the only religious text out there?
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And if you don't think His word matches the "evidence", then who will you believe: God or scientists?
I will believe the evidence. Don't you? Or do you ignore the evidence in preference for a literal reading of Genesis?
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If so, then again, you'll be left all alone after you die because there will be nothing left of the scientists you worship either. Sorry.
Actually, I have published my scientific work so it will last beyond my death. I, as a scientist, also stand on the shoulders of the scientists who came before me.
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RE: The "Ice Age" - 8/6/2008 9:17:38 PM
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Method
Posts: 853
Joined: 9/19/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jeafl
quote:
ORIGINAL: Method
Those fossils and deep striations caused by glaciers are not made up. They are very real.
Has any scientists ever seen a glacier in the process of making a striation in the rocks of the earth's crust? Has it ever been shown experimentally that glaciers can move boulders from one place to another?
You would need to be directly under the glacier to observe it, so not directly. However, these features are found directly below melting glaciers such as those in Glacier National Park.
http://www.uwsp.edu/geo/faculty/lemke/geol370/lecture_notes/09_glacial_erosion_landforms.html
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RE: The "Ice Age" - 8/6/2008 9:21:41 PM
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Carico
Posts: 531
Joined: 8/19/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Method
quote:
ORIGINAL: Carico
he is here because he speaks to us by His word through those of us who believe it.
So we don't have a witness. We have hearsay. When you get done confusing the Bible for a deity get back to me.
I also like the part where whatever you say all of the sudden turns into the very voice of God. Ego much?
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So only those who believe God's Word as written are passing along what God says.
No, they are passing along what the biblical authors wrote down. Writing something down does not make it true.
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But those who are here to argue with God's Word and claim that their words are more intelligent will have no one to turn to when they die because their words will pass away as quickly as they did.
So the words of Buddha have survived how? Confucius? Mohammed? The countless Hindu writings? Do you really think the Bible is the only religious text out there?
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And if you don't think His word matches the "evidence", then who will you believe: God or scientists?
I will believe the evidence. Don't you? Or do you ignore the evidence in preference for a literal reading of Genesis?
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If so, then again, you'll be left all alone after you die because there will be nothing left of the scientists you worship either. Sorry.
Actually, I have published my scientific work so it will last beyond my death. I, as a scientist, also stand on the shoulders of the scientists who came before me.
Sorry, but one day, humans will be extinct and those shoulders won't exist. Then you'll be completely alone for all eternity and your being a scientists won't matter to a soul since there won't be anyone left to congratulate you. Then all you'll have for all of eternity is God's word to haunt you and show you what disagreeing with Him has cost you. How sad. 
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RE: The "Ice Age" - 8/6/2008 10:18:45 PM
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Method
Posts: 853
Joined: 9/19/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Carico
Sorry, but one day, humans will be extinct and those shoulders won't exist. Then you'll be completely alone for all eternity and your being a scientists won't matter to a soul since there won't be anyone left to congratulate you. Then all you'll have for all of eternity is God's word to haunt you and show you what disagreeing with Him has cost you. How sad.
So is that why you believe in these stories? You are afraid of being alone? I prefer to the truth to convenient fantasies.
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RE: The "Ice Age" - 8/6/2008 10:54:40 PM
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jeafl
Posts: 59
Joined: 9/10/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Method
Actually, I have published my scientific work so it will last beyond my death. I, as a scientist, also stand on the shoulders of the scientists who came before me.
Where did you go to school? What degrees do you have?
How can you be such an important scientist and still have time to participate in internet arguments?
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RE: The "Ice Age" - 8/6/2008 11:00:22 PM
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jeafl
Posts: 59
Joined: 9/10/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Carico
Sorry, but one day, humans will be extinct and those shoulders won't exist. Then you'll be completely alone for all eternity and your being a scientists won't matter to a soul since there won't be anyone left to congratulate you. Then all you'll have for all of eternity is God's word to haunt you and show you what disagreeing with Him has cost you. How sad.
Your hostility is not called for here. You could just as easily direct your hostility towards Method towards me since I have a bachelor’s degree in biology. Being a scientist doesn’t mean that you cannot be saved.
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RE: The "Ice Age" - 8/6/2008 11:01:57 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2913
Joined: 11/16/2007
From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jeafl
Has any scientists ever seen a glacier in the process of making a striation in the rocks of the earth's crust? Has it ever been shown experimentally that glaciers can move boulders from one place to another?
Actually, I think we do. Don't we have the real life example of a plane wreck in the Andes on a receding glacier? The wreckage of the plane was moved downslope and the metal crunched up, not unlike what would happen to boulders and bedrock if under more weight and with greater time duration. The pattern is also fairly evident on the Nisqually glacier and the Carbon glacier on Mt Ranier in Washington. I've seen both up close and personal. The amount of rock flour that is flowing into both the Nisqually and Carbon rivers is really quite voluminous and reasonably ironclad evidence of the ability of a glacier to scour out significant volumes of rock.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: The "Ice Age" - 8/6/2008 11:14:24 PM
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Method
Posts: 853
Joined: 9/19/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jeafl
Where did you go to school? What degrees do you have?
How can you be such an important scientist and still have time to participate in internet arguments?
I have a bachelors in zoology and 11 years experience in infectious disease research. I am not an important scientist by any stretch of the imagination and I have free time just like everyone else.
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RE: The "Ice Age" - 8/6/2008 11:36:59 PM
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Carico
Posts: 531
Joined: 8/19/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Method
quote:
ORIGINAL: Carico
Sorry, but one day, humans will be extinct and those shoulders won't exist. Then you'll be completely alone for all eternity and your being a scientists won't matter to a soul since there won't be anyone left to congratulate you. Then all you'll have for all of eternity is God's word to haunt you and show you what disagreeing with Him has cost you. How sad.
So is that why you believe in these stories? You are afraid of being alone? I prefer to the truth to convenient fantasies.
Actually I'm more alone than I ever was since most people reject God's word for the foolishness of scientists and fantasies of men. I was also an unbeliever for 38 years and realized that man doesn't have the infallible truth and all his thinking leads to death. then when I got born again of the Spirit, within minutes I could believe the bible. And that wasn't my own doing since I had tried to believe the bible for years but could not. So I then knew what Jesus was talking about and you don't have a clue since you think his words are nothing but stories.
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RE: The "Ice Age" - 8/7/2008 8:29:23 AM
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