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RE: What do you consider it is to "love the world&... - 8/13/2008 12:47:31 PM
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justajerk
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quote:
Sorry to the OP for taking this off topic. It started out on, and has veered way off course. My apologies.
No problem, I think the discussion is both good and helpful.
_____________________________
"Men think all things would be very glorious, if they might be done according to their mind. Perhaps, indeed, they would -- but with their glory, not the glory of God." - John Owen
monergism
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RE: What do you consider it is to "love the world&... - 8/13/2008 11:17:36 PM
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GraceBro
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quote:
have a question for you though, and maybe it should be a new thread, or has an existing thread. But what does "The Way, The Truth and The Life" (mainly the life part on the end), mean to you.
It doesn't matter what it means to me. What matters is what does it mean.
The Life is the meaning of salvation. Salvation is the restoration of the life of God we lost in Adam. When Adam was created in the Garden of Eden, God breathed into him the breath of life (Genesis 2:7). This was the very life of God that made Adam a living being. But, God warned Adam that on the day he ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil he would "surely" die (Genesis 2:17). Well, we know that Adam did eat from the tree and died spiritually. The life of God was removed from Adam and he became spiritually dead in sin. Since Adam didn't have any children at this point, all of mankind is born into this world in the image of Adam (Genesis 5:3), not in the image of God as is taught, dead to God, but alive to the world. God, in His love desired to once again indwell His creation. But, before He could do that He had to deal with the sin that caused that life to leave us in the first place. That is why Jesus, the only man born spiritually alive, had a life to give for our sins that would satisfy God for all eternity (1 John 2:2). Now, God is able to offer His life as a free gift, made possible through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, to all who accept Christ by faith (Romans 5:8-10). There is now no sin that could ever cause that life to leave again because of the eternal consequences of the cross (Hebrews 9:12). That is why the life we now have is an eternal life. A life that will carry us through the rest of our natural lives and on into eternity even after we physically die. That is the Gospel; sin, death, forgiveness, Life!
As for your emphasis on the word "try," I answered it already despite your claim to the contrary. Christians arent' to "try" to follow Jesus' example. We are to rest from our righteous works and allow God, in the Person of the Holy Spirit, to live His life in and through us.
"To this end I labor, struggling with all his energy, which so powerfully works in me." Colossians 1:29
"I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me." Galatians 2:20
To avoid an endless debate on this topic, I will give you the last word on it. I think my position is clear. To love the world is to seek from it, through sin, that which we have already been given in Christ; Jesus Himself. Amen!
Grace and Peace
_____________________________
www.livinggodministries.net
http://96toLife.blogspot.com
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RE: What do you consider it is to "love the world&... - 8/14/2008 8:47:04 AM
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deliveredarling
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To love the world is to love the things that surrounds us more than we desire His spirit to live through us.
Some believe that to reach the lost, we have to look and act like the world so that the world is comfortable with us.
Jesus did not do this. He told us that we would be hated because He was hated.
He lived in the world but did not become or look like the world to reach the lost.
He lived set apart to the point that the truth seekers sought after Him.
Those who were poisoned, could not see Him for who He is. It's no different today.
We just want it to be different so that we don't have to struggle or sacrifice. We want our cake and eat it too.
< Message edited by deliveredarling -- 8/16/2008 7:45:01 AM >
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: What do you consider it is to "love the world&... - 8/14/2008 9:44:08 AM
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Liveloved
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I think we need to remember what the Apostle Paul warned of in Colossians 2. We can easily become captive to our way of understanding scripture (who and what a Christian looks like/does/etc) rather than being a captive of Christ.
Paul's warning ends with these words about various 'Christian' methods for dealing with love of the world, worldliness. These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom, in self-made religion and self abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of NO VALUE against fleshly indulgence.(2:23)
Don't we need to think deeper and harder about what God is telling us in regard to love of the world?
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RE: What do you consider it is to "love the world&... - 8/14/2008 12:12:53 PM
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justajerk
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quote:
Don't we need to think deeper and harder about what God is telling us in regard to love of the world?
Amen!
_____________________________
"Men think all things would be very glorious, if they might be done according to their mind. Perhaps, indeed, they would -- but with their glory, not the glory of God." - John Owen
monergism
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RE: What do you consider it is to "love the world&... - 8/14/2008 12:42:19 PM
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deliveredarling
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quote:
I think we need to remember what the Apostle Paul warned of in Colossians 2. We can easily become captive to our way of understanding scripture (who and what a Christian looks like/does/etc) rather than being a captive of Christ.
It shouldn't be an issue if we are focusing on Him and not what man says.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: What do you consider it is to "love the world&... - 8/15/2008 5:26:16 PM
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RJR_fan
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quote:
Some believe that to reach the lost, we have to look and act like the world so that the world is comfortable with us.
Yet, Jesus was, as Bruce Barton pointed out nearly a century ago, "The most sought-after dinner guest in Jerusalem." People liked to be around Him, and he could hold audiences enthralled for hours with his stories and lectures. (There are reasons why 20 million people listen to Rush Limbaugh every week. Folks hunger for morally meaningful explanations of "Life, the universe, and everything.")
On a smaller scale, home school kids tend to take the lead in organizing games at family reunions -- and are envied by their cousins. They have a winsome vigor, a zest for life, that demonstrates a supernatural dimension. A sense that life can offer more than the stones they are served up by The World in The World's kiddy concentration camps.
_____________________________
The future has never been shaped by majorities but rather by dedicated minorities. And free men do not wait for the future; they create it. RJR
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RE: What do you consider it is to "love the world&... - 8/15/2008 5:57:01 PM
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Liveloved
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quote:
It shouldn't be an issue if we are focusing on Him and not what man says.
But, DD, most men (& women) don't think for themselves. They don't even read with understanding. And they don't sit quietly before the Lord and listen to His teaching.
Most people do believe what man has told them. I have a number of friends who have found freedom from the mindset they adopted while being taught in a Baptist church. And that mindset is a very hard thing to be set free from. They were taught and they believed it was right and there was NO OTHER WAY.
But then the Lord allowed a shaking in their church. And they were shaken free. And now they are beautiful, MATURE Christian women who passionately love Jesus and can hear His teaching and truth apart from man's voice. And that is a tremendous step of freedom.
So while I agree with you, I know that most aren't taught by the Lord. They are taught by man. And that is exactly what Paul warns of in Colossians 2. But it is hard for them to separate or see what truly is the teaching of men.
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RE: What do you consider it is to "love the world&... - 8/15/2008 8:31:16 PM
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RJR_fan
Posts: 716
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quote:
But, DD, most men (& women) don't think for themselves. They don't even read with understanding.
After all, most of us, K-12, were taught that only topics assigned by agents of The Government were worth thinking about -- and then, only for 50 minutes at t time. The reduction in literacy is deliberate, not accidental. For thousands of years, people have learned to read, phonetically, in 30 hours or less. Now, we take 12 years to create "students" with an 80%; aliteracy rate -- folks who either can't read, or don't like to. A century ago, elementary schools taught Greek and Latin. Today, universities teach remedial English.
The system is working -- but not for our benefit, nor for the glory of God.
Fortunately, all those things that oppose God (such as the public school system) are doomed to failure. The blessed and wise do not go down with the ship. They do not tie their children to the destiny of GOd's enemies.
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RE: What do you consider it is to "love the world&... - 8/15/2008 8:49:18 PM
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deliveredarling
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quote:
But, DD, most men (& women) don't think for themselves. They don't even read with understanding. And they don't sit quietly before the Lord and listen to His teaching.
Most people do believe what man has told them. I have a number of friends who have found freedom from the mindset they adopted while being taught in a Baptist church. And that mindset is a very hard thing to be set free from. They were taught and they believed it was right and there was NO OTHER WAY.
But then the Lord allowed a shaking in their church. And they were shaken free. And now they are beautiful, MATURE Christian women who passionately love Jesus and can hear His teaching and truth apart from man's voice. And that is a tremendous step of freedom.
I'm in full agreement with you here!
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: What do you consider it is to "love the world&... - 8/16/2008 12:22:03 AM
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OneJohn410
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SavedByGraceMD
quote:
ORIGINAL: GraceBro
quote:
Thanks Bro,
Here's the crux.... When you look at the christian culture of today and apply vs. 16-17 as you have described them; simple as it is...
How are we/you/I doing?
It doesn't really matter how "we/you/I" are doing. That is the problem. We spend too much time "doing" Christianity and not enough time "being" Christians. None of us can live the Christian life. Jesus is the only one that ever did live it and now He wants to live it in and through us. All we can do is rest in His finished work for us and His resurrected life in us. But, too many Christians spend their entire existence trying to obtain or maintain their right standing before God through self-effort. You need look no farther than 1 Corinthians 13: 4-8 to see how we cannot love like God can. But, He gave us everything for life and godliness and every spiritual blessing in Christ so we would not seek from the world that which can only be received in Christ. The quicker we realize that, let go of our denominational and church biases, the sooner we will see the type of Christianity everybody desires to see. Don't hold your breath!
Grace and Peace
I agree with this statement GraceBro, almost fully. I would say that it is important how we/you/I are doing in our walks. But we should not let that make us become self righteous pharisees in the process. All of us should strive to live a Christ like life, which by no means is humanly possible, but as long as we don't hinder Him from working in us and through us by "loving the world", then at least we could be good examples for others. I have heard it said many times, that we may be the only Jesus people see, so if we are consumed with the world, living in sin, being hypocritical pharisees, then we are being poor representatives of our Lord. We are to forsake the world, all and everything in it, not desire material things, not live in secret sin, and so on and so on.
That does not mean however that we are not to love this world, and the people in it. God demands and deserves to be first and that is what I think it is saying when it comes to not loving the world. If we put anything before God, which could be something small, something large, family, possessions, sex, drugs, whatever, then we fail in this regard. If we put God first, above ALL else, where He belongs, then we are doing right in this regard. Jesus told us the 2 greatest commandments, and that is what we should be doing. First and foremost, love God with all our hearts, mind, and soul. Secondly...we are to love our neighbor as ourselves.
So to answer the OP...to love the world is to put anything above and or before God.
SavedByGraceMD,
I've not been in this post before now. I'm in agreement with your post right to the last sentence. It went and clashed with everything you said before it. Just so Just doesn't get confused, here's my take on his opening question in the subject and the opener.
This is a study on the many definitions of love that Greeks, Latins, and other wonderful writers were able to use versus today's English language definitions for it. Most of this is because English is love, love, love, and that's all we can spell it, but that's what gets used over words like agape, etc. etc. Not a grape, Just. 
Take the statement, "I love ice cream."
To love ice cream (one awesome thing of the world), as a Christian, is to love it less than the love she or he has for God.
If I consider loving the world, with all its things, and people, and provisions... all of it, I can do that without prioritizing it, or considering it a greater love, than my love for God. The way I read that closing statement of yours sounded like you meant I couldn't love it all- the stuff of this world and God too, because then all my loves would out of order, priority, greatness. I'm choosing both, and that's the narrow way, the narrow gate, the path less travelled by, the Christian's calling, and it's downright challenging at times. Makes it a joy not worth having any other way, too!
Having read my post, and I yours, are we of one accord? (That means in agreement, Just. I don't want you confused at the end of this.)
OneJohn410
_____________________________
When the angels had returned to heaven, the shepherds said to each other, "Let's go to Bethlehem! Let's see this thing that has happened, which the Lord has told us about. Luke 2:15 (NLT)
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RE: What do you consider it is to "love the world&... - 8/16/2008 12:51:10 AM
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OneJohn410
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
To love the world is to love the things that surrounds us more than we desire His spirit to live through us.
Hey DD,
I finished reading this entire thread! Would you agree with me that you are referring to the opener's Bible verse in your statement, and NOT simply thinking about loving the world as in...
I love my family. I love our neighborhood. I love my chemistry class. I love you, darling. I love you more, my dear. That kind of thing.
So that you would say that loving the world is not bad, and does not then mean it all automatically bumps God down a notch on the 'love ladder'?
When the words appear alone like that, it could make it look like loving the world is not an option.
Thanks, and blessings,
OneJohn410
_____________________________
When the angels had returned to heaven, the shepherds said to each other, "Let's go to Bethlehem! Let's see this thing that has happened, which the Lord has told us about. Luke 2:15 (NLT)
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RE: What do you consider it is to "love the world&... - 8/16/2008 2:24:25 AM
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justasheep
Posts: 44
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quote:
I'm choosing both, and that's the narrow way, the narrow gate, the path less travelled by, the Christian's calling, and it's downright challenging at times. Makes it a joy not worth having any other way, too!
1John,
I agree with you to a point. Can you always trust yourself to love these things in the right way with the appropriate passion. This passage reminds me of the passage when Jesus calls us to hate our loved ones in comparison to the love that we are to have for God. How often do you really love the Lord your God with all your heart soul and mind? I think it's a struggle and maybe particularly for believers in our culture with all the trappings that easily allure.
It makes me think of King David. When Nathan confronted David with the sin that he had long been hiding. He wrote a Psalm and made a striking declaration
Have mercy on me, [1] O God,
according to your steadfast love;
according to your abundant mercy
blot out my transgressions.
2 Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity,
and cleanse me from my sin!
3 For I know my transgressions,
and my sin is ever before me.
4 Against you, you only, have I sinned
and done what is evil in your sight,
Obviously David's sin was great against Uriah, Bathsheeba, and the people of Israel. But David provides much insight into the type of love that we are to have for God almighty. I say love because the opposite is true when we sin against God, we are despising him in that moment. David was literally undone and understood that it was God first and foremost that he had sinned against. David knew that God was merciful but he understood just how heinous his sin was.
So the warning in 1 John stands. We are to hate the world in comparison to the love that we ought to have for Jesus. Again we're not talking about the people in the world but rather the world as a system, and the old man that still rears its ugly head from time to time.
_____________________________
Life is wasted if we do not grasp the glory of the cross, cheerish it for the treasure that it is, and cleave to it as the highest price of every pleasure and the deepest comfort of every pain.
John Piper
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RE: What do you consider it is to "love the world&... - 8/16/2008 7:19:58 AM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 2001
Joined: 8/30/2007
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quote:
Hey DD,
I finished reading this entire thread! Would you agree with me that you are referring to the opener's Bible verse in your statement, and NOT simply thinking about loving the world as in...
I love my family. I love our neighborhood. I love my chemistry class. I love you, darling. I love you more, my dear. That kind of thing.
So that you would say that loving the world is not bad, and does not then mean it all automatically bumps God down a notch on the 'love ladder'?
When the words appear alone like that, it could make it look like loving the world is not an option.
Thanks, and blessings,
OneJohn410
When we love the world, our focus is the things around us and not on Him. Our vision of spiritual things is cloudy when our hearts are not in the right place.
To love the world is not only an object obsession, it also is focuses us on this place, this realm, rather than reaching for the goal and running the race.
That is not to say that we can't love our families, we can and we must. They just can't become our God, our objects of worship.
Everything must be in balance falling after our number one priority---God.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: What do you consider it is to "love the world&... - 8/16/2008 11:10:47 AM
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atruefaith
Posts: 320
Joined: 6/18/2005
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quote:
When we love the world, our focus is the things around us and not on Him. Our vision of spiritual things is cloudy when our hearts are not in the right place.
To love the world is not only an object obsession, it also is focuses us on this place, this realm, rather than reaching for the goal and running the race.
This reads like the biblical definition of idolatry.
_____________________________
A series of short stories depicting the Christian faith....
www.atruefaith.com
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RE: What do you consider it is to "love the world&... - 8/16/2008 11:17:34 AM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 2001
Joined: 8/30/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Conquered
quote:
When we love the world, our focus is the things around us and not on Him. Our vision of spiritual things is cloudy when our hearts are not in the right place.
To love the world is not only an object obsession, it also is focuses us on this place, this realm, rather than reaching for the goal and running the race.
This reads like the biblical definition of idolatry.
Is idolatry not a part of worldliness? Are you saying they are two different things?
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: What do you consider it is to "love the world&... - 8/17/2008 2:35:19 AM
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justasheep
Posts: 44
Joined: 5/13/2008
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DD,
I think conquered was agreeing with you and emphasizing that your post was a good picture of idolatry and how it can work itself out in our lives.
In His Grace,
Todd
_____________________________
Life is wasted if we do not grasp the glory of the cross, cheerish it for the treasure that it is, and cleave to it as the highest price of every pleasure and the deepest comfort of every pain.
John Piper
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RE: What do you consider it is to "love the world&... - 8/18/2008 2:28:53 AM
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OneJohn410
Posts: 1234
Joined: 6/1/2008
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Justasheep,
Welcome to this post. Usually the OP is scrambling to make those that join it feel welcome. I don't know why Justajerk missed you, Justasheep.
Your post reminded me that after all is said and done, sin separates us all from eternal life in heaven, and no amount of love of any level of passion for God changes that, no matter whether we are despising Him when we sin or not. It's only by grace, through faith in Jesus Christ that anyone can be forgiven of sin.
Thanks!
OneJohn410
_____________________________
When the angels had returned to heaven, the shepherds said to each other, "Let's go to Bethlehem! Let's see this thing that has happened, which the Lord has told us about. Luke 2:15 (NLT)
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RE: What do you consider it is to "love the world&... - 8/18/2008 9:55:53 AM
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justajerk
Posts: 129
Joined: 4/30/2008
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quote:
How's this post doing for you? Got thoughts?
1John,
I believe we can agree. My view is that it is possible to rejoice in all things, knowing (and acknowledging) that they are from the giver of all good things. IOW, the things of this world are not 'mine'; family and possessions have been given to me to steward for His purposes. And the things in which some may be obsessed? Sports, hobbies, (church?) etc. are only to point us towards Him knowing that He has given us these very things as a shadow of what is to come. We are not to worship the created things but the Creator of the things.
For an example, you brought up ice cream; what an awesome creation! And to think I wouldn't be able to enjoy it were it not for the taste buds that God has given? And, I think this is only a glimpse of what He has in store for us when we sit down at His table. "You think that banana split was good? Try this!"
It will be an endless and eternal discovery.
In other words, our joy should be rooted in our eternal reward and not on the things here below.
_____________________________
"Men think all things would be very glorious, if they might be done according to their mind. Perhaps, indeed, they would -- but with their glory, not the glory of God." - John Owen
monergism
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RE: What do you consider it is to "love the world&... - 8/18/2008 9:59:59 AM
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justajerk
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