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[Poll]
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Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong
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| TRUE - Christians have no business ever drinking alcohol |
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| FALSE - Cristians having an occasional glass of wine is not sinful |
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Total Votes : 120
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(last vote on : 10/5/2008 1:40:56 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/18/2008 9:18:58 AM
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P31W
Posts: 3005
Joined: 6/13/2005
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quote:
We can put alcohol outside of our home but there can still be an ugly, bitter, vile spirit that lives within and that wreaks much greater havoc and defiles many. I'm not putting down those who have done this (put alcohol outside the home)---you probably are wellmeaning. But it is our heart that is the problem. Not the alcohol.
Who are you talking to? I want to know who you believe is ignorant and have heart problems simply because they don't have alcohol in their home.
Why would people who don't drink alcohol want to spend money on the stuff and keep it in their home?
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/18/2008 9:52:53 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3645
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: a mother who let me live
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quote:
ORIGINAL: oceangirl
lol Jesus turned water into wine didnt he
Oh, that was grape juice -- the precursor to Welch's. 
According to a preacher in my old church, it was grape juice, absolutely not wine, that Messiah made -- that's why it tasted better.
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/18/2008 10:35:54 AM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1904
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quote:
Who are you talking to? I want to know who you believe is ignorant and have heart problems simply because they don't have alcohol in their home.
Why would people who don't drink alcohol want to spend money on the stuff and keep it in their home?
I'm not speaking specifically to anyone. I'm just recognizing the truth that our heart is the problem. And we can go to all kinds of measures such as putting alcohol outside our home so we don't use or abuse it but still not allow the Lord to deal with our hearts where the true problems lie. Colossians 2 makes this much clearer. We can go to all kinds of extremes in attempting to be wise but the Apostle Paul says these measures (do not handle, do not taste, do not touch) are of NO VALUE against fleshly indulgence.
I am speaking what I believe to be biblical truth to a question that was raised. . . our heart is our problem.
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/18/2008 11:55:30 AM
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P31W
Posts: 3005
Joined: 6/13/2005
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Pr 14:15
Only simpletons believe everything they are told! The prudent carefully consider their steps.
Pr 22:3
A prudent person foresees the danger ahead and takes precautions; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.
Pr 27:12
A prudent person foresees the danger ahead and takes precautions. The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.
Put Colossians into it's proper context. No one here has suggested it's a salvation issue or that we must obey the law inorder to be made right with God.
I don't have a heart problem. I have not "brough into my home" alcohol because I "fear" abusing it or for some other superstitous reason. I have used "wisdom" in my decision. Sorry you fail to see that.
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/19/2008 8:55:34 AM
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P31W
Posts: 3005
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You know I think most Christians who drink don't get plastered. However there are some who do. I know some! More than some. They don't view drinking as a sin. Would argue that point on these threads but would admit that getting drunk was a sin. They don't view themselves as alcoholics but believe me we all know they are. The lost and saved world knows it. The Christian Alcoholic on the rampage.
Then there are Christians who believe it's a sin to drink ANY. They are going to get upset over the nyquil we drink. They would be on these threads saying it's a sin but they say they don't judge you when we all know they are using it as a litmus test of your "holiness". They are overprotective and legalist snobs. Whose holiness depends on outward acts.
In my opinion.......we don't need to let these two extreme groups color our view of reality.
In reality I think most all of us agree that drinking in moderation is not a sin unless the individual for themselves thinks it's a sin or hinders their witness or they are trying to flaunt their freedom in Christ.
I also think it's wrong for those of us who are in what I consider to be the biblical view -- allow the "extremeist" to color our views of one another.
People who don't drink don't tend to judge those who do. We don't tend to think you are at home getting sloshed. We don't think you are being foolish because you drink responsibaly. We don't think you are bad parents because you have it in your home. We don't view your having alcohol in your home as being a something terrible. To be honest with you I don't think we think much about your alcohol use at all.
People who do drink don't tend to judge those of us who don't drink I don't believe most of them believe we are lacking wisdom, are legalist, backwood ignorant of scripture or judgmental. I don't believe you judge us as overprotective parents or people who have superstitions. To be honest with you again I don't think you who do drink think much about what we don't have in our homes or drink.
I think sometimes we have "more fun" debating with the extremist because after all if we cannot find something to disagree about then we don't have much to say.... 
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/19/2008 10:29:32 AM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 2001
Joined: 8/30/2007
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quote:
You know I think most Christians who drink don't get plastered. However there are some who do. I know some! More than some. They don't view drinking as a sin. Would argue that point on these threads but would admit that getting drunk was a sin. They don't view themselves as alcoholics but believe me we all know they are. The lost and saved world knows it. The Christian Alcoholic on the rampage.
Then there are Christians who believe it's a sin to drink ANY. They are going to get upset over the nyquil we drink. They would be on these threads saying it's a sin but they say they don't judge you when we all know they are using it as a litmus test of your "holiness". They are overprotective and legalist snobs. Whose holiness depends on outward acts.
In my opinion.......we don't need to let these two extreme groups color our view of reality.
In reality I think most all of us agree that drinking in moderation is not a sin unless the individual for themselves thinks it's a sin or hinders their witness or they are trying to flaunt their freedom in Christ.
I also think it's wrong for those of us who are in what I consider to be the biblical view -- allow the "extremeist" to color our views of one another.
People who don't drink don't tend to judge those who do. We don't tend to think you are at home getting sloshed. We don't think you are being foolish because you drink responsibaly. We don't think you are bad parents because you have it in your home. We don't view your having alcohol in your home as being a something terrible. To be honest with you I don't think we think much about your alcohol use at all.
People who do drink don't tend to judge those of us who don't drink I don't believe most of them believe we are lacking wisdom, are legalist, backwood ignorant of scripture or judgmental. I don't believe you judge us as overprotective parents or people who have superstitions. To be honest with you again I don't think you who do drink think much about what we don't have in our homes or drink.
I think sometimes we have "more fun" debating with the extremist because after all if we cannot find something to disagree about then we don't have much to say....
I think you are right. I know there are some on here who would consider me an extremist. I find that some of us react vehemently to certain situations that don't seem right to us. We all react one way or another for a reason. IOW, there is a root cause for our reaction. We've either participated in something another finds offensive or we have been harmed by something, many many reasons.
When people debate, they debate from a personal point of view. Experience becomes the basis of evidence. At least that is true for me in certain debates. I debate it from the point of not wanting to see another be harmed or stumble. If it wasn't pleasant for me, then I would expect it to not be pleasant for another. I would rather save them the time and painful experience.
Paul does this in his letters. He offers warnings because he knows the outcome. If we don't pay attention, we will learn the hard way.
It's not about judging another. I think it really rings the warning bell.
_____________________________
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/19/2008 1:55:57 PM
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edgibson
Posts: 145
Joined: 10/3/2005
From: Then: upper NY, Now: NC
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quote:
ORIGINAL: oceangirl
lol Jesus turned water into wine didnt he
Only after His mother pressured Him, if I recall.
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Where are we going?
And why are we in this handbasket?
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/19/2008 2:02:44 PM
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edgibson
Posts: 145
Joined: 10/3/2005
From: Then: upper NY, Now: NC
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The question that needs to be asked of ourselves is "why do I drink an alcoholic beverage?"
There are a multitude of options out there that do not contain alcohol.
When is someone considered "drunk?" Is it the legal .08%BAC? Is it when they are impaired? When? If you drink in moderation are you only moderately drunk?
I choose to avoid a chemical that can impair my thinking. (BTW, sugar and caffeine can, too, I know.)
_____________________________
Where are we going?
And why are we in this handbasket?
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/19/2008 2:21:58 PM
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Child4Jesus
Posts: 462
Joined: 5/24/2005
From: Long Island, Nassau, Elmont, NY
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: oceangirl
lol Jesus turned water into wine didnt he
quote:
ORIGINAL: edgibson
Only after His mother pressured Him, if I recall.
Pressured Him?
There is no indication in scripture that she pressured Him or that He wouldn't have done it without her input.
_____________________________
In Christ,
Richad
The greatest heresy to American Christianity is that if you ask Jesus to come into your heart, he definitely will.
Paul Washer
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/19/2008 2:52:07 PM
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bluestone
Posts: 2934
Joined: 2/25/2008
From: United States of America
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Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ was not a momma's boy.
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I need Christ. Not something that resembles Christ.
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/19/2008 2:52:47 PM
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Qtman
Posts: 9946
Joined: 3/21/2006
From: Crimson Tide Country
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Child4Jesus
quote:
ORIGINAL: oceangirl
lol Jesus turned water into wine didnt he
quote:
ORIGINAL: edgibson
Only after His mother pressured Him, if I recall.
Pressured Him?
There is no indication in scripture that she pressured Him or that He wouldn't have done it without her input.
I agree here is the scripture
John 2
1And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there:
2And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage.
3And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.
4Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.
5His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.
6And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece.
7Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim.
8And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it.
9When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew;) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,
10And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.
Would someone please show me the pressure. Also please note the 2nd and third verse. Jesus and His Disciples were invited to the wedding and they wanted wine. (indicating Jesus and His disciples)
_____________________________
A friend gave me a report with Stats showing that 4,153,237 people got married last year. Now I don't want to start any trouble but I can't help but wonder. Shouldn't that be an even number?
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/19/2008 4:03:17 PM
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MindySue69
Posts: 321
Joined: 8/5/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: edgibson
The question that needs to be asked of ourselves is "why do I drink an alcoholic beverage?"
There are a multitude of options out there that do not contain alcohol.
When is someone considered "drunk?" Is it the legal .08%BAC? Is it when they are impaired? When? If you drink in moderation are you only moderately drunk?
I choose to avoid a chemical that can impair my thinking. (BTW, sugar and caffeine can, too, I know.)
Yep, I ask my self that all the time - and the answer always comes back to:
I like it. I like the taste, I like the smell, I like the warm feeling it puts inside of me for a few minutes.
So DO you avoid sugar and caffeine? Or do you only drink it sometimes? If so, why?
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/19/2008 9:27:26 PM
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Kerrlaw
Posts: 9128
Joined: 5/24/2006
From: Big Orange Country
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bluestone
Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ was not a momma's boy.
quote:
4Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee?
He sure wasn't.
My momma would still be beatin' on me if I had said that to her in public.
_____________________________
<<< When do we open the presents?
That which does not kill us makes us fatter. ~ crankius
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/20/2008 1:33:45 AM
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I_Walk_Alone
Posts: 164
Joined: 8/8/2008
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I would be in agreement with a few people here. I do drink alcoholic beverages on occasion, usually when I am entertaining at my home. A few drinks on occasion is fine, we have to be in control of what we consume. And I absolutely never go to a bar for alcohol. When I go to concerts, I alternate. First drink maybe a lite beer, then a soda or bottled water, an hour to 2 hours later another lite beer usually no more than 3 a night maximum. But I could get a 24 pack that lasts for at least 3 months.
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/20/2008 2:22:38 AM
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backrowbaptist
Posts: 387
Joined: 6/7/2008
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The principle I was always taught was 1 Corinthians 8, about eating meat sacrificed to idols, and not letting the exercise of our freedom (to drink) becoming a stumbling block to the weak (an ex alcoholic, say).
quote:
ORIGINAL: edgibson
I choose to avoid a chemical that can impair my thinking. (BTW, sugar and caffeine can, too, I know.)
It may sound nit-picky, but please don't make this argument. No one ever got behind the wheel after eating too much sugar and plowed into a family's car. No woman ever got taken advantage of because she was plied with caffeine until her defenses were down. There's not even a remote comparison.
I don't agree with the offended woman in the OP. The bible doesn't say don't drink, it says do not get drunk. And if it's not done in front of her, she shouldn't stumble. But we can't trivialize alcohol and it's effect on society and individuals. Ask any policeman, EMT, social worker, or anyone else who is confronted with society's daily problems, what percentage of the troubles they see are alcohol related? They'll say 80-90%.
I see a lot of younger christians with alcohol habits that could be called 'problem-drinking', with very little concern being shown by their peers or spiritual leaders. It's something that I believe needs to be addressed by ministries and churches.
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Any of this gettin' through to you, son?
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/20/2008 2:41:27 AM
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I_Walk_Alone
Posts: 164
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This is a good point. There is no denying that their are societal problems that are caused by problem drinking. It does need to be addressed in churches about the problems of alcohol abuse and other things that can be addicting. However, i also think their needs to be more parental guidance as well, keeping as much communication as possible. Knowing when to talk and when to listen to make sure that the reasons are addressed and what could be done to maintain control.
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/20/2008 8:09:42 AM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3393
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
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I only drink to take the edge off of the herion.
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You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/20/2008 8:43:59 AM
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bluestone
Posts: 2934
Joined: 2/25/2008
From: United States of America
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I think the problem here is not so much drinking as it is a Christian harrassing a fellow believer over a preference.
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I need Christ. Not something that resembles Christ.
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/20/2008 8:45:52 AM
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MindySue69
Posts: 321
Joined: 8/5/2008
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People keep bringing up being a stumbling block to others but that's not relevant.
My situation is such that I am ALONE in my OWN HOUSE watching a movie or reading a book. There is no way someone will "stumble" over it unless they drop in without calling first, and frankly, that's a worse sin than drinking in my book.
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/20/2008 8:47:55 AM
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car2ner
Posts: 2938
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: just north of Florida
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m'love and I don't drive if we have had even one drink.
I find it interesting that some deans of colleges want the drinking age lowered back to 18. I guess they figure that the 18+ will drink anyhow, better to have it close to campus instead of having to drive to remote areas to party.
(sigh) sounds like having to chose between evils instead of finding a win-win.
_____________________________
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"May your days be long and your hardships few".
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/20/2008 8:53:28 AM
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car2ner
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From: just n | | |
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