RE: Do Groups research doctrine, before singing somewhere?
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RE: Do Groups research doctrine, before singing somewhere? - 8/15/2008 6:29:58 AM
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BillBaileyBFAFan
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I'm sure at this point, I'll never agree on this subject with the 10 or so people that have commented. I assure you though, some people do feel the way I do. I have had this discussion in real life.
My last example of what I feel that this is similar to, is this:
If I join a church, I am, by that act saying that I believe like that church, and that I accept and endorse their doctrine.
I think someone accepting an invitation to sing/preach at a church is doing that, even if its to a lesser degree. You don't necessarily have to agree on every point, but you are essentially saying that are likeminded enough to share their pulpit/stage.
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RE: Do Groups research doctrine, before singing somewhere? - 8/15/2008 7:22:10 AM
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servants
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If we don't take the death and resurection and sin is sin word to churches like that, you can bet they won't here it in thier pulpit. I can't speak for other groups but I can ours. We don't change no matter where we are at.
_____________________________
Thank God I'm Forever Changed.
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RE: Do Groups research doctrine, before singing somewhere? - 8/15/2008 7:26:34 AM
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danielmount
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rogasinger4Him
I lead the singing at a non-denominational service for the antique dealers at the Scott Antique Market in atlanta every month and often sing southern gospel songs as part of the service. There is a Jewish lady who comes to the services because she likes the way I sing. I may never convince her to accept Jesus Christ as her Savior but I'm not going to stop trying to convince her to come to Jesus with the message in my songs. I certainly wouldn't ask her to leave because she isn't a Christian
There are many gays at this antique market and I invite them to the service too. So far none of them have shown up. But I'm not going to stop asking them.
In this post, I believe I notice one way in which both side is talking past each other.
There is a huge difference between singing to a sinner (gay or otherwise) who is not a Christian, and singing to one who is a Christian and knowingly disobeying certain Bible passages.
Outreach events are great; I have nothing against them. It's singing to churches that knowingly twist and pervert Scripture to support various sinful lifestyles that I have a problem with.
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Author of The Faith of America's Presidents
http://www.danielmount.com/
http://www.southerngospelblog.com/
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RE: Do Groups research doctrine, before singing somewhere? - 8/15/2008 7:33:46 AM
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Seaton
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We need to realize that denomination will mean nothing when we're all gathered around the throne of God one day. I have attended many churches of varying denominations in my lifetime. I grew up in a baptist church, went to the nazarene church for a bit, then as a teenager moved to the assembly of God. I have also attended luthern, church of God and even Messianic Jewish (as a result of a missions trip I took to Latvia in 1997) services. One thing that I got out of each of those services was that Christ died for our sin and he is our Savior.
I am not saying an individual shouldn't be happy with where they attend church, but let's not be so arrogant to think that one denomination is more important than another. And yes, there will be plenty of Catholics in heaven.
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RE: Do Groups research doctrine, before singing somewhere? - 8/15/2008 8:45:57 AM
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Qtman
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I hope this is my last word on this subject. But to many people are making to many assumptions in this world. I sung once at a black church. I really don't think anyone assumed I was black.
I also believe the vast majority of the SG Artist out there are following a heart felt calling to do what they do. If not they could certainly find something else to do that would produce a much better living for them and their families. I know how they are paid and they could all do better financially doing something else. So if they are called what are they called to do? Spread the Gospel. For them ti sing only to the saved or like minded is like taking a bag of chocolate to Hershey Pa. Just don't make sense. Even Jesus said it is the sick that need a doctor. It is the sinner that needs to hear the Gospel. Now lets quit making assumptions and look at things as they are.
_____________________________
A friend gave me a report with Stats showing that 4,153,237 people got married last year. Now I don't want to start any trouble but I can't help but wonder. Shouldn't that be an even number?
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RE: Do Groups research doctrine, before singing somewhere? - 8/15/2008 11:00:22 AM
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danielmount
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
It is the sinner that needs to hear the Gospel.
On that point, I agree with you wholeheartedly. I would have no problem with a Gospel group singing the Gospel to any sinners. The primary instance where I would not be supportive of a concert is for a group that claims to be Christian but openly permits and perhaps speaks positively of aberrant behavior the Bible specifically speaks against.
_____________________________
Author of The Faith of America's Presidents
http://www.danielmount.com/
http://www.southerngospelblog.com/
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RE: Do Groups research doctrine, before singing somewhere? - 8/15/2008 11:05:02 AM
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Qtman
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quote:
ORIGINAL: danielmount
quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
It is the sinner that needs to hear the Gospel.
On that point, I agree with you wholeheartedly. I would have no problem with a Gospel group singing the Gospel to any sinners. The primary instance where I would not be supportive of a concert is for a group that claims to be Christian but openly permits and perhaps speaks positively of aberrant behavior the Bible specifically speaks against.
Daniel are you talking about the artist or the church? If you are talking about the artist I agree 100%. If you are talking about the church I still maintain they are the ones who need to hear the gospel. Someone has to take it to them.
_____________________________
A friend gave me a report with Stats showing that 4,153,237 people got married last year. Now I don't want to start any trouble but I can't help but wonder. Shouldn't that be an even number?
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RE: Do Groups research doctrine, before singing somewhere? - 8/15/2008 11:08:55 AM
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danielmount
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Well, both, I guess, but I had mainly been thinking of the church.
If the group went into such a setting and said the typical stuff, like "it's such an honor to be here" and mainly just told their typical jokes and sang their typical songs, I would have a problem with it.
If they went into such a setting with the clear understanding that it was a mission field-type setting, and spoke the truth (gently but still the truth), then I guess I might be OK with it. For example, if they did give an altar call, and added something about how anyone can receive salvation, that you can come as you are, but that doesn't mean you stay as you are--that God calls you to holiness...
...I think I might be OK with that approach.
_____________________________
Author of The Faith of America's Presidents
http://www.danielmount.com/
http://www.southerngospelblog.com/
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RE: Do Groups research doctrine, before singing somewhere? - 8/15/2008 11:22:49 AM
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Qtman
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quote:
ORIGINAL: danielmount
Well, both, I guess, but I had mainly been thinking of the church.
If the group went into such a setting and said the typical stuff, like "it's such an honor to be here" and mainly just told their typical jokes and sang their typical songs, I would have a problem with it.
If they went into such a setting with the clear understanding that it was a mission field-type setting, and spoke the truth (gently but still the truth), then I guess I might be OK with it. For example, if they did give an altar call, and added something about how anyone can receive salvation, that you can come as you are, but that doesn't mean you stay as you are--that God calls you to holiness...
...I think I might be OK with that approach.
I think we may be on the same page now. I was about to post and clarify my position on the matter.
I would not be in favor of a group going into that setting with a "feel Good", "Everything is fine" "Patting someone on the head" type Gospel. As a matter of fact that artist would not be on my list to start with. But I have heard the testimony of several artist and have seen how they act and what they say in concerts. I am all in favor of a group like EH & SS, Triumphant, Old Paths, etc., going into those situations with the uncensored full strength Gospel. I'm talking about artist that are going to call sin what it is. "Sin" Then the only assumption I would reach is that artist must really love the Lord and are striving to do His will.
_____________________________
A friend gave me a report with Stats showing that 4,153,237 people got married last year. Now I don't want to start any trouble but I can't help but wonder. Shouldn't that be an even number?
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RE: Do Groups research doctrine, before singing somewhere? - 8/15/2008 11:37:32 AM
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WhiteRoseBlessings
Posts: 25988
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Seaton
We need to realize that denomination will mean nothing when we're all gathered around the throne of God one day. I have attended many churches of varying denominations in my lifetime. I grew up in a baptist church, went to the nazarene church for a bit, then as a teenager moved to the assembly of God. I have also attended luthern, church of God and even Messianic Jewish (as a result of a missions trip I took to Latvia in 1997) services. One thing that I got out of each of those services was that Christ died for our sin and he is our Savior.
I am not saying an individual shouldn't be happy with where they attend church, but let's not be so arrogant to think that one denomination is more important than another. And yes, there will be plenty of Catholics in heaven.
Execellent post, Seaton; every word of it.
quote:
ORIGINAL: danielmount
There is a huge difference between singing to a sinner (gay or otherwise) who is not a Christian, and singing to one who is a Christian and knowingly disobeying certain Bible passages.
Outreach events are great; I have nothing against them. It's singing to churches that knowingly twist and pervert Scripture to support various sinful lifestyles that I have a problem with. What is that difference, Daniel?
In both cases, there is someone who really needs to hear the Gospel of Our Lord Jesus Christ.
And how do you, personally, know when someone is knowingly disobeying Our Lord's Word? Perhaps they don't realize that's what happening. Perhaps they've been misled by other people who have also been misled by other people.
Then, too, what if they truly are intentionally disobeying Our Lord? Aren't we, as Christians commanded to exhort each other? Aren't we supposed to lovingly go to our brothers and sisters and show them what's what in regards to what it entails to be a follower of Jesus?
I would think that any Christian singer (regardless of genre) who has the opportunity to do the above two things (and do it on a such a large scale) would be thrilled and quite ready to do them . . . spreading the Gospel of Our Lord to those who really need to hear it; even if it means going to churches that may have doctrines that are not Scriptural.
Aren't we, as Christians, supposed to be salt? To be light in a dark world? Those commands do not exclude Southern Gospel singers.
In fact, all Christians are supposed to do these things; regardless of what they "do" for a living.
Additionally, Our Lord has called certain people to very specific ministries as their way of life, and most certainly that person should live out their God-given ministry spreading the Gospel of Our Lord in the very way that Our Lord has gifted that individual.
Southern Gospel singers are but one example of such a specific ministry . . . AND because of the very nature of their ministry, they have the wonderful opportunity of representing Our Lord to many people at one time.
I was thinking about this thread last night . . . and I suddenly thought of a friend of mine who is a missionary. Such friend is living out his ministry by utilizing his very specific God-given gifts and abilities.
What if he had decided that he would use those gifts and abilities but only for a few people and only for those who are Christian and only for those Christians with whom he agreed with their doctrines?
Instead, he chose to go wherever Our Lord told him to go . . . and he now lives in a foreign country that is quite non-Christian, and he also knows without a doubt that he is doing exactly what Our Father would have him do. Not everyone is called to be a missionary in a non-Christian country, but he was.
Not everyone is called to be a Southern Gospel singer; but if they are, shouldn't they be willing to sing wherever there's a need or an opportunity for the Gospel to be proclaimed? Shouldn't they be willing to go wherever Our Lord sends them? Either they are ministers of His Word through their singing, or they are simply an entertainment group for the few that they deem worthy to sing to.
That, I believe, is where the big difference is.
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RE: Do Groups research doctrine, before singing somewhere? - 8/15/2008 1:01:59 PM
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DeeAnnBailey
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quote:
ORIGINAL: singLOUD
quote:
ORIGINAL: dbmurray
I won't sing in front of a storefront (Wal-Mart, K-Mart, etc.) while some church runs a fund raiser in the parking lot. I will sing for a fund raiser if it's taking place on church property or if the fund raiser is being held in the sort of location where people are coming specifically to attend that fund raiser. What I won't do is be part of an event that approaches the unsuspecting general public with hands outstretched asking for money. In my opinion, that's a poor way to present the Gospel to a lost and skeptical world.
Good point.
zzzzzzzzzzzz
It would depend on what the fund raiser if for (at least to me), if it was raising $$ for the church, I would agree. But if it were raising $$ for someone in the community in need or some type of diaster in the area, I think it would show the church going into the community to try to help those there.
Back to the original discussion, I once was in a church that handled snakes because a group was booked there (and it wasn't Wendy) but none of us stayed very long. I also went to a church, local to my area but that I wasn't familar with, a group was booked there as well. We got there and found at least 50% of the congregation were gay couples. Neither the group or those of us in the area knew anything about the church until we got there. The group sang, we stayed for the service. I would say the leader of the group saying that he believed every word in the Bible meant exactly what it said and that sin was sin no matter what you called it, probably is why they were never invited back. Or it could have been when he kept talking about things Paul said in the Bible and that Paul was his favorite writer in the new testament because he stood up against sin! 
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My Blog Dee's Delights and Delusions
<<<<<<The love of my life - precious Erin!
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RE: Do Groups research doctrine, before singing somewhere? - 8/15/2008 2:18:11 PM
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BillBaileyBFAFan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: danielmount
Well, both, I guess, but I had mainly been thinking of the church.
If the group went into such a setting and said the typical stuff, like "it's such an honor to be here" and mainly just told their typical jokes and sang their typical songs, I would have a problem with it.
If they went into such a setting with the clear understanding that it was a mission field-type setting, and spoke the truth (gently but still the truth), then I guess I might be OK with it. For example, if they did give an altar call, and added something about how anyone can receive salvation, that you can come as you are, but that doesn't mean you stay as you are--that God calls you to holiness...
...I think I might be OK with that approach.
Daniel, You have just summed it up beautifully.
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RE: Do Groups research doctrine, before singing somewhere? - 8/15/2008 3:18:41 PM
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Qtman
Posts: 9946
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quote:
ORIGINAL: BillBaileyBFAFan
quote:
ORIGINAL: danielmount
Well, both, I guess, but I had mainly been thinking of the church.
If the group went into such a setting and said the typical stuff, like "it's such an honor to be here" and mainly just told their typical jokes and sang their typical songs, I would have a problem with it.
If they went into such a setting with the clear understanding that it was a mission field-type setting, and spoke the truth (gently but still the truth), then I guess I might be OK with it. For example, if they did give an altar call, and added something about how anyone can receive salvation, that you can come as you are, but that doesn't mean you stay as you are--that God calls you to holiness...
...I think I might be OK with that approach.
Daniel, You have just summed it up beautifully.
Daniel did do a good job summarizing but it is a lot different from the OP.
_____________________________
A friend gave me a report with Stats showing that 4,153,237 people got married last year. Now I don't want to start any trouble but I can't help but wonder. Shouldn't that be an even number?
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RE: Do Groups research doctrine, before singing somewhere? - 8/16/2008 12:14:17 AM
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dbmurray
Posts: 403
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From: NC
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DeeAnnBailey
It would depend on what the fund raiser if for (at least to me), if it was raising $$ for the church, I would agree. But if it were raising $$ for someone in the community in need or some type of diaster in the area, I think it would show the church going into the community to try to help those there.
DeeAnn,
I understand your point, but I still wouldn't take part in that type of situation. I do agree that the perception should be more positive, but there's still the general message of "we want your money."
The most successful benefit events I've seen have been held at a church, civic center, or a school where the focus was placed 100% on the person in need. In those situations, I've seen people sympathetically relate and generously respond.
_____________________________
David Bruce Murray
http://www.musicscribe.com
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RE: Do Groups research doctrine, before singing somewhere? - 8/16/2008 1:49:32 PM
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danielmount
Posts: 7614
Joined: 2/28/2006
From: Ohio
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WhiteRoseBlessings
quote:
ORIGINAL: danielmount
There is a huge difference between singing to a sinner (gay or otherwise) who is not a Christian, and singing to one who is a Christian and knowingly disobeying certain Bible passages.
Outreach events are great; I have nothing against them. It's singing to churches that knowingly twist and pervert Scripture to support various sinful lifestyles that I have a problem with.
What is that difference, Daniel?
It's pretty simple. An unsaved person cannot be expected to obey a Bible in which they do not believe.
However, someone who professes faith in Christ as his/her Savior and Lord should study the Bible to know what is expected of him/her as a Christian.
And in those situations, see here:
quote:
ORIGINAL: danielmount
If the group went into such a setting and said the typical stuff, like "it's such an honor to be here" and mainly just told their typical jokes and sang their typical songs, I would have a problem with it.
If they went into such a setting with the clear understanding that it was a mission field-type setting, and spoke the truth (gently but still the truth), then I guess I might be OK with it. For example, if they did give an altar call, and added something about how anyone can receive salvation, that you can come as you are, but that doesn't mean you stay as you are--that God calls you to holiness...
...I think I might be OK with that approach.
_____________________________
Author of The Faith of America's Presidents
http://www.danielmount.com/
http://www.southerngospelblog.com/
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RE: Do Groups research doctrine, before singing somewhere? - 8/17/2008 2:49:55 PM
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Kerrlaw
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My preacher's sermon this morning was about the parable of the lost sheep. I thought of this thread several times.
One thing that particularly got my attention was when he said that it wasn't the responsibility of the lost sheep to come home, it was the responsibility of the shepherd to go get the lost.
So I can't see why in the world that a singing "ministry" would not want to go spread the word in any church (or other venue) to which they were invited, regardless of whether the ministry was in total accordance with the biblical interpretations of the host (or even if some beliefs were in direct contrast).
In fact, my desire to sing to them would be in direct proportion to the degree that I deemed them to be "lost".
There will be more rejoicing in Heaven over one lost one being saved than 99 nights of "singing to the choir".
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That which does not kill us makes us fatter. ~ crankius
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