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RE: Reasons to vote for Barak Obama - 8/14/2008 10:39:08 PM
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huangshan
Posts: 771
Joined: 8/6/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
quote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
good old fashioned wealth envy...
I don't know what that means.
Then I shall explain......wealth envy, being envious and/or jealous of those who dare to earn or possess more than you...
Ah.
Do you actually think that? That's a bit of a comic-booky origin story for graduated taxes.
Does Warren Buffet blow your mind?
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RE: Reasons to vote for Barak Obama - 8/14/2008 11:29:16 PM
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wing2000
Posts: 1030
Joined: 4/14/2005
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1. He is calm and even tempered.
2. He respectfully listens to other points of view
3. He is articulate
4. He inspires people to action
5. He is willing to compromise when necessary
6. He was against the Iraq war.
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RE: Reasons to vote for Barak Obama - 8/15/2008 10:37:20 AM
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SwedishCovenant
Posts: 606
Joined: 8/8/2008
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Thank you, Wing, for offering sober, considerate responses on BOTH threads.
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RE: Reasons to vote for Barak Obama - 8/15/2008 11:02:21 AM
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davemiller7
Posts: 1060
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
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Boy, there's some real reasons to vote for him! All but the last one are based on how he appears, nothing of any substance, all appearance. And by the way, I'm sure he didn't "manage" his campaign. He has hired others to do that sort of thing (fundraising, that is). He only needed to go where his staff told him to go, speak eloquently using the teleprompter, don't speak off the cuff, and look presidential.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: saved9201
Reasons to vote for B. Hussein O.:
He's dynamic
He's confident
He's knowledgeable about a vast range of subjects
He looks like he will listen to reason
He's energetic
He looks presidential.
He looks like he'll get things done.
The way he managed his campaign thus far, raising money and literally bankrupting the Clintons, is unprecedented and was reported used as a case study for an MBA class at an Ivy League school.
- Julius
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Reasons to vote for Barak Obama - 8/15/2008 11:11:09 AM
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SwedishCovenant
Posts: 606
Joined: 8/8/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
Boy, there's some real reasons to vote for him! All but the last one are based on how he appears, nothing of any substance, all appearance. And by the way, I'm sure he didn't "manage" his campaign. He has hired others to do that sort of thing (fundraising, that is). He only needed to go where his staff told him to go, speak eloquently using the teleprompter, don't speak off the cuff, and look presidential.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: saved9201
Reasons to vote for B. Hussein O.:
He's dynamic
He's confident
He's knowledgeable about a vast range of subjects
He looks like he will listen to reason
He's energetic
He looks presidential.
He looks like he'll get things done.
The way he managed his campaign thus far, raising money and literally bankrupting the Clintons, is unprecedented and was reported used as a case study for an MBA class at an Ivy League school.
- Julius
Just can't help it, can you?
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RE: Reasons to vote for Barak Obama - 8/15/2008 12:14:36 PM
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davemiller7
Posts: 1060
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
Status: offline
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Well now, did that strike a nerve? Gee, I'm sorry. I should have known that appearances and impressions are far more important in a presidential candidate than substance.
Again, begging your pardon,
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant
quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
Boy, there's some real reasons to vote for him! All but the last one are based on how he appears, nothing of any substance, all appearance. And by the way, I'm sure he didn't "manage" his campaign. He has hired others to do that sort of thing (fundraising, that is). He only needed to go where his staff told him to go, speak eloquently using the teleprompter, don't speak off the cuff, and look presidential.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: saved9201
Reasons to vote for B. Hussein O.:
He's dynamic
He's confident
He's knowledgeable about a vast range of subjects
He looks like he will listen to reason
He's energetic
He looks presidential.
He looks like he'll get things done.
The way he managed his campaign thus far, raising money and literally bankrupting the Clintons, is unprecedented and was reported used as a case study for an MBA class at an Ivy League school.
- Julius
Just can't help it, can you?
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Reasons to vote for Barak Obama - 8/15/2008 12:22:12 PM
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huskarine
Posts: 444
Joined: 7/31/2008
From: Wheaton, IL
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
Well now, did that strike a nerve? Gee, I'm sorry. I should have known that appearances and impressions are far more important in a presidential candidate than substance.
Again, begging your pardon,
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant
quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
Boy, there's some real reasons to vote for him! All but the last one are based on how he appears, nothing of any substance, all appearance. And by the way, I'm sure he didn't "manage" his campaign. He has hired others to do that sort of thing (fundraising, that is). He only needed to go where his staff told him to go, speak eloquently using the teleprompter, don't speak off the cuff, and look presidential.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: saved9201
Reasons to vote for B. Hussein O.:
He's dynamic
He's confident
He's knowledgeable about a vast range of subjects
He looks like he will listen to reason
He's energetic
He looks presidential.
He looks like he'll get things done.
The way he managed his campaign thus far, raising money and literally bankrupting the Clintons, is unprecedented and was reported used as a case study for an MBA class at an Ivy League school.
- Julius
Just can't help it, can you?
Zoolander for President!!! Hansel for VP!!!
_____________________________
"Success is equated with excess/the ambition for excess wrecks us/as the top of the mind becomes the bottom line/when success is equated with excess" -Switchfoot "American Dream"
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RE: Reasons to vote for Barak Obama - 8/15/2008 12:24:09 PM
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JJB1222
Posts: 227
Joined: 7/16/2008
From: where the mountains meet the sea, Puget Sound.
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Believes that the government should fund faith-based groups...so that the government can CONTROL faith-based groups
Believes "pro-life" would better termed "anti-choice"
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RE: Reasons to vote for Barak Obama - 8/15/2008 12:29:26 PM
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its_GO_time
Posts: 220
Status: offline
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He will give us free health care
He makes us feel good about ourselves
That's about it.
_____________________________
"Few men desire liberty; most men wish only for a just master" - Sallust
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RE: Reasons to vote for Barak Obama - 8/15/2008 12:30:50 PM
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SwedishCovenant
Posts: 606
Joined: 8/8/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JJB1222
Believes that the government should fund faith-based groups...so that the government can CONTROL faith-based groups
Believes "pro-life" would better termed "anti-choice"
The first clause of your first statement is a continuation of current (Bush) policy, and already written into the Republican platform. Maybe you want to place that on the 'vote for MCCAIN thread?
The second clause of your first statement is unsupported hyperbole - perhaps you have something to back it up, but whatever it is, you haven't offered it.
Your second statement is pure silliness from several angles, first being that the two terms are semantically equal, and a second being that no one could seriously suggest that Obama would be able to dictate to any group what THEY choose to call THEMSELVES. Nor has he in this example, which is pure fiction.
Isn't there ANY Conservative, or even Republican, on this board who can consistently make a rational argument for their stated positions?
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RE: Reasons to vote for Barak Obama - 8/15/2008 12:32:09 PM
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huangshan
Posts: 771
Joined: 8/6/2008
Status: offline
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Obama has an incredibly strong organization. I don't think that there's much that can prepare one for being president (and though I don't particularly like her, I think Hillary's early experience in her husband's administration technically makes her the one with the most relevant experience), but I do think being able to run a well-organized campaign like the one that Obama is running is pretty impressive. In contrast, McCain doesn't seem to have much coherency or organization to his campaign.
There's also a pretty severe enthusiasm gap. I think most of the enthusiasm on the Republican side is the standard visceral anti-Democrat stuff that comes up every year. There's not a lot of positive stuff that I've seen about McCain, but I dunno, I'm biased and I may be ignoring something important.
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RE: Reasons to vote for Barak Obama - 8/15/2008 12:46:55 PM
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davemiller7
Posts: 1060
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
Status: offline
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Unfortunately, I believe you're right (in this post)! Hey, there's a first time for everything! I'll be holding my nose, voting for McCain.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
Obama has an incredibly strong organization. I don't think that there's much that can prepare one for being president (and though I don't particularly like her, I think Hillary's early experience in her husband's administration technically makes her the one with the most relevant experience), but I do think being able to run a well-organized campaign like the one that Obama is running is pretty impressive. In contrast, McCain doesn't seem to have much coherency or organization to his campaign.
There's also a pretty severe enthusiasm gap. I think most of the enthusiasm on the Republican side is the standard visceral anti-Democrat stuff that comes up every year. There's not a lot of positive stuff that I've seen about McCain, but I dunno, I'm biased and I may be ignoring something important.
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Reasons to vote for Barak Obama - 8/15/2008 12:48:21 PM
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tafkam
Posts: 2069
Joined: 9/23/2005
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For the record, I'm completely UN-excited by McCain.
All the folks who ran, and the best we can come up with is the guy who has already lost the nomination twice?
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: Reasons to vote for Barak Obama - 8/15/2008 12:51:07 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2913
Joined: 11/16/2007
From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
Obama has an incredibly strong organization. I don't think that there's much that can prepare one for being president (and though I don't particularly like her, I think Hillary's early experience in her husband's administration technically makes her the one with the most relevant experience), but I do think being able to run a well-organized campaign like the one that Obama is running is pretty impressive. In contrast, McCain doesn't seem to have much coherency or organization to his campaign.
There's also a pretty severe enthusiasm gap. I think most of the enthusiasm on the Republican side is the standard visceral anti-Democrat stuff that comes up every year. There's not a lot of positive stuff that I've seen about McCain, but I dunno, I'm biased and I may be ignoring something important.
To some degree, the differences in the organizational characteristics of the two campaigns reflect different leadership styles. McCain's is the more military/heirarchical, individual-based style, while Obama's is more the team-based, consensus-driven and somewhat Clinton-esque style. Both styles can work, but I think that's impacted the way people view those two campaigns a bit.
Edit: given that GWB has a very individualistic leadership style, and given his current approval rating, I perceive their to be a distrust right now of that personality type. McCain's record of fiscal constraint, responsible use of the military etc helps distance him from that phenomenon right now, but I think it's at least a partial explanation of the Obama phenomenon and a reason why support for McCain is often tought to be tepid in some sectors of the population.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Reasons to vote for Barak Obama - 8/15/2008 12:59:27 PM
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huangshan
Posts: 771
Joined: 8/6/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
To some degree, the differences in the organizational characteristics of the two campaigns reflect different leadership styles. McCain's is the more military/heirarchical, individual-based style, while Obama's is more the team-based, consensus-driven and somewhat Clinton-esque style. Both styles can work, but I think that's impacted the way people view those two campaigns a bit.
It's a noble attempt, but I think you're trying to find poetry in a mess of gibberish. Republicans have had an extremely powerful election machine for a while (but it is struggling and fading as of late), and I think that's where most of the stuff against Obama is coming from. McCain and his spokespeople seem to be reading completely different books much of the time though, if they're reading books at all. There is something there, but I don't think it's remotely similar to the military, and it's overselling him by a lot to compare it to Obama's organization.
P.S.: I just noticed the "to some degree..." at the start of your post, which makes my vigorous disagreement a little much. Sorry about that.
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RE: Reasons to vote for Barak Obama - 8/15/2008 1:03:27 PM
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huangshan
Posts: 771
Joined: 8/6/2008
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...and McCain's views on the budget and use of the military have almost completely overlapped with Bush's as of last time I checked. They may have been different in the past, but I don't think that can be said any more.
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RE: Reasons to vote for Barak Obama - 8/15/2008 1:32:16 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2913
Joined: 11/16/2007
From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
Status: offline
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On the military, not so much. My perception is that McCain would be less likely to let politics interfere with military strategy. He's been more on the forefront on the recent build up, but has had to temper that a bit (for what I think are electioneering concerns.)
On the budget, somewhat. On taxes, yes. On spending, not so much.
On the "vigorous disagreement", no worries. Yes, McCain's campaign is a bit more of a tangle. Obama's, however, does benefit somewhat by the team-based focus. At least, as long as he can keep the troups focused. So far, they've been able to do that. I might be reading more poetry into that than what's really there, although I really do believe that leadership styles play into all that.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Reasons to vote for Barak Obama - 8/15/2008 1:46:37 PM
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huskarine
Posts: 444
Joined: 7/31/2008
From: Wheaton, IL
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant
quote:
ORIGINAL: JJB1222
Believes that the government should fund faith-based groups...so that the government can CONTROL faith-based groups
Believes "pro-life" would better termed "anti-choice"
The first clause of your first statement is a continuation of current (Bush) policy, and already written into the Republican platform. Maybe you want to place that on the 'vote for MCCAIN thread?
The second clause of your first statement is unsupported hyperbole - perhaps you have something to back it up, but whatever it is, you haven't offered it.
Your second statement is pure silliness from several angles, first being that the two terms are semantically equal, and a second being that no one could seriously suggest that Obama would be able to dictate to any group what THEY choose to call THEMSELVES. Nor has he in this example, which is pure fiction.
Isn't there ANY Conservative, or even Republican, on this board who can consistently make a rational argument for their stated positions?
i don't know what you are doing, swedey, but you are making a mockery of yourself and making enemies instead of bridging the divide like you probably intend...
if i were you, i would stop the condescending nature...
_____________________________
"Success is equated with excess/the ambition for excess wrecks us/as the top of the mind becomes the bottom line/when success is equated with excess" -Switchfoot "American Dream"
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RE: Reasons to vote for Barak Obama - 8/15/2008 2:07:43 PM
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SwedishCovenant
Posts: 606
Joined: 8/8/2008
Status: offline
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Rational argument is not equal to condescention.
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RE: Reasons to vote for Barak Obama - 8/15/2008 2:11:02 PM
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huskarine
Posts: 444
Joined: 7/31/2008
From: Wheaton, IL
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant
Rational argument is not equal to condescention.
whatever you want to call it from your end...
_____________________________
"Success is equated with excess/the ambition for excess wrecks us/as the top of the mind becomes the bottom line/when success is equated with excess" -Switchfoot "American Dream"
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RE: Reasons to vote for Barak Obama - 8/15/2008 3:34:58 PM
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SwedishCovenant
Posts: 606
Joined: 8/8/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huskarine
quote:
ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant
Rational argument is not equal to condescention.
whatever you want to call it from your end...
That sort of condecension is uncalled for.
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RE: Reasons to vote for Barak Obama - 8/15/2008 4:01:24 PM
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SwedishCovenant
Posts: 606
Joined: 8/8/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WesP
quote:
That sort of condecension is uncalled for.
Why can you not see that you are initiating it?
quote:
The second clause of your first statement is unsupported hyperbole - perhaps you have something to back it up, but whatever it is, you haven't offered it.
Your second statement is pure silliness from several angles, first being that the two terms are semantically equal
quote:
Isn't there ANY Conservative, or even Republican, on this board who can consistently make a rational argument for their stated positions?
These statements are pretty caustic.
"whatever you want to call it from your end... "
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RE: Reasons to vote for Barak Obama - 8/15/2008 6:02:51 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2913
Joined: 11/16/2007
From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dred
I've enjoyed hanging out with my share of weirdos too, but certainly wouldn't want to answer for what many of them have done and said.
Amen, and amen.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Reasons to vote for Barak Obama - 8/15/2008 6:22:23 PM
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jfwink
Posts: 341
Joined: 3/24/2006
From: Arizona
Status: offline
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Obama is an outstanding orator. I also love the idea of having an African-American president, though I would prefer a conservative.
_____________________________
James
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