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RE: Too much Church? - 8/26/2008 10:34:53 AM
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rcjames
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
An "olde-time" Baptist preacher once gave me a list... he said that if you had this list, your priorities were always in the right place.
(1) God
(2) Your family
(3) Yourself
(4) Your job
(5) Church
Just a rough draft, but if it helps you... you're welcome.
Adam
I am not disagreeing with the list, I just modify it in my teaching a bit.
Here is the list I teach;
(1) God
If we do that one right; then everything else falls into proper perspective.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Too much Church? - 8/26/2008 1:34:16 PM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Ah, the good ole 'Churchianity' rat race..
Allow me to share an older post of mine that I feel has great relevance to this thread, to your question and dilemma:
Many people today are duped into thinking God being first = church/ministry time. Nope.
God being first = one's personal relationship with God. Church/family time for the layman is to be, according to my humble opinion, fourth on our list.
1) God (one's personal living daily relationship with our Savior, Jesus Christ)
2) Family
3) Work (the jobs God allows you to have so that you can provide for your family)
4) Church (time for church, ministry, bible classes, etc)
5) Friends
And 4/5 are interchangeable if need be.
The only reason I say this is because I have known way too many people who are duped into thinking putting God first equals being at church or involved at church all of the time they can (giving the pastor free time to do nothing while being paid for full time ministry), some every night of the week, and their homes, their families are in ruins.
Kids hungry and with no stability, sitting in church way after 9:00 PM still in their school uniform, dozing off in the pews, and not being cared for, homework not being done, kids running the streets, husbands not attended to, house is all dirty and in shambles, laundry not done because there is no time, bills stacking up, etc etc.. all because they have to be involved in any and every ministry.
Our family, our home is to be our number one ministry. Not giving a class on Thursday night for the youth when your home is not in order.
People get burned out in churches that guilt them or expect them to be present at every single function and service. Sorry, we go to church to worship God, not to be seen by men and get their approval for showing up.
this is my understanding based onthe Bible - the married people are not like the single people .. married people have to take care of each other #1, thats why the single people have the advantage as they can take care of the things of God, while the married people take care of things of the home , i think thats in 2 timothy , but not sure right off the top of my head, but i remember coz im single and so that applies to me!
also if a man neglect his wife he is not acting as the head of the household and he is not respecting the role God gave him.. as he is subject to Christ, his head.
i think married peopel cannot do the same church schedule as single people is my point.
i do believe if Im sick i can stay home from church, but I think if you can be there, be there, but if your staying home just to watch the football game, that would be bad. there are people who say that someone should not even work on the day church is going on, and that includes Wednesday mid week service. Well, now that would be something that i cannot dictate to someone because I mean thats there job. the solution would be to get a job and inform the boss upfront that they cant work on Wednesday night. But still i would have to let that be between them and God.
MY BIGGEST ISSUE/CONCERN - what about the liberty of visiting other churches if you are a member of a church,, does this mean that you always 100% of the time while your church is having church that you be there?? or can you miss it and visit another church? and how about taking vacations? if your in the woods and there will be no church arfound on Sunday and Wednesday does that mean you cannot take that vacation in the woods? or what?
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I'm just one of those Calvinistic robots for the Lord :)
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RE: Too much Church? - 8/27/2008 8:05:17 AM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: IMA_CHRISTIAN
but if your staying home just to watch the football game, that would be bad.
Why is that bad?
quote:
ORIGINAL: IMA_CHRISTIAN
MY BIGGEST ISSUE/CONCERN - what about the liberty of visiting other churches if you are a member of a church,, does this mean that you always 100% of the time while your church is having church that you be there?? or can you miss it and visit another church? and how about taking vacations? if your in the woods and there will be no church arfound on Sunday and Wednesday does that mean you cannot take that vacation in the woods? or what?
Are you sincerely asking the above or asking in manner to provoke thought in those that believe those things?
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Too much Church? - 8/27/2008 8:52:17 AM
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P31W
Posts: 3005
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Where abouts in the rural south do you live? I know many of us are in the rural south. I bet we can help you find a church closer to your home.
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RE: Too much Church? - 8/27/2008 9:04:12 AM
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sunofone
Posts: 551
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
Where abouts in the rural south do you live? I know many of us are in the rural south. I bet we can help you find a church closer to your home.
I live in Kinston NC,I attend Church in Goldsboro NC.My Wife & I attended several Churches over several years here in Kinston before choosing this Church.
As I mentioned in this post I love my Church,& yes there are things about my Church that frustrate me.I'm not looking to find another Church @ present,I'm still trying to settle in adjust to this one.
If you happen to know of some Churches in my area that offer some good Bible teaching and fellowship I'd be happy to look into that though,Thanks.
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RE: Too much Church? - 8/27/2008 9:27:00 AM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
Posts: 1671
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: IMA_CHRISTIAN
but if your staying home just to watch the football game, that would be bad.
Why is that bad?
quote:
ORIGINAL: IMA_CHRISTIAN
MY BIGGEST ISSUE/CONCERN - what about the liberty of visiting other churches if you are a member of a church,, does this mean that you always 100% of the time while your church is having church that you be there?? or can you miss it and visit another church? and how about taking vacations? if your in the woods and there will be no church arfound on Sunday and Wednesday does that mean you cannot take that vacation in the woods? or what?
Are you sincerely asking the above or asking in manner to provoke thought in those that believe those things?
why is staying home to watch a football game instead of church bad? coz I would feel that I am putting the world first before God when I need to be honoring God by going to church worshipping Him and putting God first. And the Bible says forsake not the assembling of yourselves together.. I would feel personally convicted that it would be putting God 2nd.
the other question was that this is on my mind as to my own personal life. These questsions have come up in the past few months for me. no, im not trying to flame anyone, its a big concern with me. I really would like to visit this one church this saturday because i think it would be a good one and have something there that i think i might need for spriitual reasons..
_____________________________
I'm just one of those Calvinistic robots for the Lord :)
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RE: Too much Church? - 8/27/2008 9:36:45 AM
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P31W
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quote:
I really would like to visit this one church this saturday because i think it would be a good one and have something there that i think i might need for spriitual reasons..
Then go visit it. I LOVE to visit other congregation.
Think about visiting your friends vs being with your family. If you have not neglected your family then visiting a friend is no big deal.
If however I have neglected my family then it's simply not right for me to go spend time with my friends.
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RE: Too much Church? - 8/27/2008 10:22:55 AM
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URForgiven
Posts: 1130
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quote:
ORIGINAL: IMA_CHRISTIAN
why is staying home to watch a football game instead of church bad? coz I would feel that I am putting the world first before God when I need to be honoring God by going to church worshipping Him and putting God first. And the Bible says forsake not the assembling of yourselves together.. I would feel personally convicted that it would be putting God 2nd.
If the Holy Spirit was leading you to stay home and watch the football game, would it be okay then? It is not about you putting God first, it is about God putting you where and when He wants.
Suppose you get hungry and order a pizza during this forsaking of gathering together to watch a football game. Suppose the delivery man sees that you are watching the game and you invite him in to watch it with you. Suppose he happens to see your Bible on the side table, and comments that he wished he knew more about God. Then suppose that you lead that delivery man to Christ.
That's a lot of supposes for sure. But I know of many people who have had similar experiences to the one I just gave you. This is what happens when we are open to being led by the Spirit of God, instead of presuming to know what God wants and then acting on our presumption instead of the leading of the Holy Spirit.
When we are being led by the Holy Spirit the most spiritual thing we can do is to follow where He leads us. Many times we are quenching the Spirit by doing what we think we are "supposed" to do.
Christianity is not about "church"...it is about Christ. We who make up the body of Christ do not go to church...we are the Church. And wherever we are, the Church is there also.
What we are not to forsake is fellowship one with another. And that fellowship can occur anywhere at anytime. It can occur while visiting your elderly mother at her bedside. It can occur while talking with your Christian neighbor over the fence. It can occur at a little league baseball game. Or it can occur at that building on the corner of neither here nor there.
The important thing is not where the body gathers, but that we do; and that when we do, we do so under the leading of the head of the body, who is Jesus Christ.
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Too much Church? - 8/27/2008 10:26:37 AM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
Posts: 1671
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thank you :) im on a mission to discover something :)
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I'm just one of those Calvinistic robots for the Lord :)
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RE: Too much Church? - 8/27/2008 10:31:15 AM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
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quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
quote:
ORIGINAL: IMA_CHRISTIAN
why is staying home to watch a football game instead of church bad? coz I would feel that I am putting the world first before God when I need to be honoring God by going to church worshipping Him and putting God first. And the Bible says forsake not the assembling of yourselves together.. I would feel personally convicted that it would be putting God 2nd.
If the Holy Spirit was leading you to stay home and watch the football game, would it be okay then? It is not about you putting God first, it is about God putting you where and when He wants.
Suppose you get hungry and order a pizza during this forsaking of gathering together to watch a football game. Suppose the delivery man sees that you are watching the game and you invite him in to watch it with you. Suppose he happens to see your Bible on the side table, and comments that he wished he knew more about God. Then suppose that you lead that delivery man to Christ.
That's a lot of supposes for sure. But I know of many people who have had similar experiences to the one I just gave you. This is what happens when we are open to being led by the Spirit of God, instead of presuming to know what God wants and then acting on our presumption instead of the leading of the Holy Spirit.
When we are being led by the Holy Spirit the most spiritual thing we can do is to follow where He leads us. Many times we are quenching the Spirit by doing what we think we are "supposed" to do.
Christianity is not about "church"...it is about Christ. We who make up the body of Christ do not go to church...we are the Church. And wherever we are, the Church is there also.
What we are not to forsake is fellowship one with another. And that fellowship can occur anywhere at anytime. It can occur while visiting your elderly mother at her bedside. It can occur while talking with your Christian neighbor over the fence. It can occur at a little league baseball game. Or it can occur at that building on the corner of neither here nor there.
The important thing is not where the body gathers, but that we do; and that when we do, we do so under the leading of the head of the body, who is Jesus Christ.
Peace
yeah those are good points to ponder. well the other day i did stay home from church on sunday night,, i was recovering from being sick and i felt that i could allow myself the liberty of staying home and resting... At first i felt kinda bad about it (i feel responsible to be there at church regularly so it was like deciding to stay home from work or not). when the night was over, i felt that i did the right thing.
if im in tuned to the Holy Ghost in me, then I will know whether the will of God to stay home or not. I belive the Holy Ghost would let me know if im fooling myself into thinking im staying home to witness to a potential pizza delivery man and if its gonna happen or if im just feeling kinda lazy. coz my heart would convict me. well thats how i see it.
_____________________________
I'm just one of those Calvinistic robots for the Lord :)
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RE: Too much Church? - 8/27/2008 7:51:51 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6261
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quote:
ORIGINAL: IMA_CHRISTIAN
why is staying home to watch a football game instead of church bad? coz I would feel that I am putting the world first before God when I need to be honoring God by going to church worshipping Him and putting God first.
So if your church happens to have five church services on Sunday alone - do you attend all five services? If not, why not?
quote:
ORIGINAL: IMA_CHRISTIAN
And the Bible says forsake not the assembling of yourselves together.. I would feel personally convicted that it would be putting God 2nd.
So not going to a scheduled church service means you're placing God second?
quote:
ORIGINAL: IMA_CHRISTIAN
the other question was that this is on my mind as to my own personal life. These questsions have come up in the past few months for me. no, im not trying to flame anyone, its a big concern with me. I really would like to visit this one church this saturday because i think it would be a good one and have something there that i think i might need for spriitual reasons.
So then go. We do not serve a legalistic God - a lot of your comments remind me of the legalism/bondage I and my family used to be enslaved to. Maybe my assumption is wrong, way off base, just saying...
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Too much Church? - 8/27/2008 7:53:59 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: IMA_CHRISTIAN
yeah those are good points to ponder. well the other day i did stay home from church on sunday night,, i was recovering from being sick and i felt that i could allow myself the liberty of staying home and resting... At first i felt kinda bad about it (i feel responsible to be there at church regularly so it was like deciding to stay home from work or not). when the night was over, i felt that i did the right thing.
My dear brother/sister in Christ.. I highly recommend the Plain Truth Magazine/Ministry.
Relationship not religious man-made laws of guilt and worry. His yoke is easy....
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Too much Church? - 8/28/2008 12:12:23 AM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
Posts: 1671
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: IMA_CHRISTIAN
why is staying home to watch a football game instead of church bad? coz I would feel that I am putting the world first before God when I need to be honoring God by going to church worshipping Him and putting God first.
So if your church happens to have five church services on Sunday alone - do you attend all five services? If not, why not?
Nah, i would be too tired and have no energy to do all that, so i would go to the most important. so far we dont have 5 services a week but every couple of months theres an event that might take a few days long, but we are not expected to be at every thing. seems like whatever we can do is appreciated, but not guilt-tripped into doing it.quote:
ORIGINAL: IMA_CHRISTIAN
And the Bible says forsake not the assembling of yourselves together.. I would feel personally convicted that it would be putting God 2nd.
So not going to a scheduled church service means you're placing God second?
quote:
yeah if it were something like a football game, if i even enjoyed sports, yah to me that would be putting fun first. well what about the idea that if a church is to run well and if everyone did whatever, what if no one showed up? what about being able to count on folks to be there? what if there were someone at church that God wanted me to witness to? so we could say "waht if" all day, right? I think that God puts in our heart and conscience what is right and wrong and thats who i want to listen to besides what the Bible says. to me a football game would be a less priority than what God wants, if the two choices are going to church and football game. its ingrained in me as a strong ethic, just like going to work eveyrday instead of taking a fake sick day to go to the beach. .
ORIGINAL: IMA_CHRISTIAN
the other question was that this is on my mind as to my own personal life. These questsions have come up in the past few months for me. no, im not trying to flame anyone, its a big concern with me. I really would like to visit this one church this saturday because i think it would be a good one and have something there that i think i might need for spriitual reasons.
So then go. We do not serve a legalistic God - a lot of your comments remind me of the legalism/bondage I and my family used to be enslaved to. Maybe my assumption is wrong, way off base, just saying...
well i know what legalism is, and I dont want to go there.. i try to make my decisions not on legalism, but what is the right thing to do, i.e. waht God would want me to do.. out of love for Him... i do hope im not falling into legalism nor too much liberty but i want to be balanced.
Hi - good to hear from you with thought provoking questions - I'm gonna answer them in red after each one above :)
_____________________________
I'm just one of those Calvinistic robots for the Lord :)
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RE: Too much Church? - 8/28/2008 4:04:20 AM
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FurGodWurLivin
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I find that most people in American Christianity are scared of being "legalistic", not realizing that they are nowhere near legalistic. I would say that the American Church is much closer to the Colossians than the Galatians... just saying...
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I am hyena, Jesus is my Mufasa...
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RE: Too much Church? - 8/28/2008 8:11:22 AM
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earthless
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So out of the five services a church may have on a Sunday... how do you decide which one is the "most important"?
I find conflict in what is being posted...
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RE: Too much Church? - 8/28/2008 8:25:13 AM
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PatHarris
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
I find that most people in American Christianity are scared of being "legalistic", not realizing that they are nowhere near legalistic. I would say that the American Church is much closer to the Colossians than the Galatians... just saying...
Yep Colossians were into Angels and vision, Galatians just had a problem with being legalistic.
Sure sounds like the church today, angels and visions.
_____________________________
So Christ has really set us free. Now make sure that you stay free, and don’t get tied up again in slavery to the law
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RE: Too much Church? - 8/28/2008 9:58:30 AM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
Posts: 1671
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
So out of the five services a church may have on a Sunday... how do you decide which one is the "most important"?
I find conflict in what is being posted...
What i mean is - lets say my church had these 7 services/events/activities a week. Mon singles church event, Wed ladies bible study, Friday fellowship nite, 1 service on Saturday and 1 nursing home visit on saturday and 2 services on Sunday and during saturday and sunday there was going to be street witnessing where you can sign up for 2 hours at a time and there are 4 time slots to pick.
well, i'd go on sunday morning and sunday evening, I'd pick a 2:00 - 4:00 time slot for witnessing sunday, and then i'd go to saturday evangelizing for 2 hours except this week i have to take my car in for repair so i cannot make it but i will make it next week. i'd go to one wednesday service, and then i have to do laundry on monday so i cannot make the singles event this week but i'd go the next week.
so you see, i would go to what i feel is most important that week, and if i had something pressing to do at home like laundry or else go to work without clean clothes which i would not do. then if my family needed a visit i'd put them first. theres always next week to do the things i missed. then again theres some housework time needed and shopping for groceries and so i may have to miss one church event midweek, but then id' go the following week. then one day i might just come home too exhuasted from the day and just plop myself in front of the tv in my comfy chair and just sit and stare at the wall.. even if there were church that week, i would feel that my being tired and needing rest was the priority coz theres always next week.
so all in all, me being a single woman, i'd be able to go more than a married person, and also i'd prolly switch events every two weeks. then one day i'd plan to go to smething, but then exhausted, and i need to stay home and rest which would be a priority.
thats kinda how i'd work it. make it a priority but be flexible when other things become a priority like housework, shopping, rest, sleep, cook, visit family & freinds, play with the cats, do my hobby, pay bills, return phone calls, and oh yeah go to work.
oh but now in september, im going out of town to hear paul Washer, and so that will screw up my church schedule, but im going anyway, and not worry about whats going on in my home church.
< Message edited by IMA_CHRISTIAN -- 8/28/2008 10:05:12 AM >
_____________________________
I'm just one of those Calvinistic robots for the Lord :)
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RE: Too much Church? - 8/28/2008 11:32:03 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 5677
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
So out of the five services a church may have on a Sunday... how do you decide which one is the "most important"?
The one a person attends is the most important one.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Too much Church? - 8/28/2008 12:51:50 PM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
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hiya RC! by the way,, are you a pentecostal reformed pastor? someone said you were.. Im just finding out about that possibility of it..
anyway, I'd look at the whole week and decide what is priority. God (thru church) would be priority, unless something else HAD to be done and COULD NOT WAIT another day. if laundry vs church were priorities, i'd say which one can wait till tomorrow. usually its laundry that can wait another day. yeah i know im the temple of the Holy Ghost and yes i know a building does NOT make a church and yes I can serve God without going to the church building and yes i can watch TV and have church at home, etc. etc.
and of course, if there was church that day and i fell down and sprained my ankle, of course im not going to miss going to the hospital just to go to church. im reasonable about this most of the time.
im not a robot, and im not a slave nor an employee to the church, but i treat it as important as my job, in fact, moreso, because God comes first. I feel I am reasonable in my decisions if there are two pressing things. If God is #1 priority, then all these other activities will of course fall into place. if two were equally ok, I'd do the one that i delight in and have the desire for (delight yourself in the Lord and He will give you the desire of your heart).
a lot of factors come into making decisions about anything, i.e. would my presence be sorely missed, i.e. was i responsible to be actively involved, and if i were not there, would there be no one there to cover my post at a church event, or something like that... a lot of thinking goes into what i decide what is priority. God comes first #1.
Never would I count an idle sporting event like football just sitting around being a bum, being a priority, UNLESS it was that i was too exhausted from everything and absolutely needed to veg out and rest, and also considering that for the most of the week i had put in many hours in church.. its totally something that is between me and God, and it works out. if i were married, i would not have all this liberty to do these things. i try and use the pea brain that God gave me in making decisions and my conscience and other such things.
_____________________________
I'm just one of those Calvinistic robots for the Lord :)
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RE: Too much Church? - 8/28/2008 12:57:42 PM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
Where abouts in the rural south do you live? I know many of us are in the rural south. I bet we can help you find a church closer to your home.
Most places in the south I've been you can throw a rock in any direction and hit at least one church.
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Wenn Sie so intelligent sind, warum Sie hier sind?
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RE: Too much Church? - 8/28/2008 4:45:03 PM
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Bluethread
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I do not want to get off topic here, just adding prespective. I believe this is why Adonai included two aspects to the commandment regarding appointed times, whenever, one interprets those times to be. We are not only told to keep Shabbat, but we are also told to work. Therefore, if "church going" begins to interfere with our doing our ordinary work, we are also violating the commandment. I do not believe we are called to a dicotomious lifestyle, secular and sacred. Whatever we do we do it unto Adonai. We work to build our communities through the week and at the appointed times we refrain from our ordinary work to focus on the purpose of each appointment.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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