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Personal Prophecy - 8/18/2008 7:36:33 PM
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TrustingGod
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In my church's bulletin Sunday there was an announcement that there will be a Healing and Prophecy meeting. If you know someone who needs healing, bring them - oh, and there will be time for personal prophecy.
Okay, it didn't read exactly like this....but my question is, what is personal prophecy? What does this mean? I've sent an email to my church to find out but I'm curious what your experience is.
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RE: Personal Prophecy - 8/18/2008 7:57:59 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6261
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From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
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Is your church a 'Word of Faith' type church?
There is something disturbing with "times of healing and prophecy" type announcements. As if we can dictate when God will heal. As if we can tell God when to do something, etc..
In terms of "personal prophecy" this is something that was popularized by a book from the 1980's by Dr. Bill Hamon. There is no evidence of "personal prophecy" in the Bible that did not relate to the whole of Israel and/or the Church. Those who are personal prophets today, then, should be avoided as they are actually using divination.
Jeremiah 29:8 Yes, this is what the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says: "Do not let the prophets and diviners among you deceive you. Do not listen to the dreams you encourage them to have.
Many from these 'Elijah List'/Latter Rain type circles love to say that we should pay heed to 1 Thesolonians 5:20 - do not treat prophecies lightly.
It is true that we are not to take prophecies lightly. But this is not talking about personal prophecies because we cannot find that taught or demonstrated in the Bible. If someone gives you a personal prophecy you must then, based on what the Bible teaches, disregard it because it is not true prophecy but rather divination.
However, we must not be contemptuous of prophecies given to individuals for the whole church based on what God has already spoken in His Word. In any case, all prophecy must be tested for compliance with the written Word and if it purports to speak of future events, it must be tested against accuracy and truth of fulfillment.
1 Corinthians 14:29 Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said.
Notice that prophecy here is done in the context of the whole church, in front of the church, not in a personal way. That is so others can judge what is being said, testing it against the written Word. It is also a protection against the cultic nature of divination being practiced in the past right up through today.
We are to avoid false prophets, and anyone who practices divination is, by Biblical definition, a type of false prophet.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Personal Prophecy - 8/19/2008 12:11:21 PM
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TrustingGod
Posts: 150
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No, not WOF. We are Nazarene. I would say progressive conservative. My understanding is that we discourage speaking in tongues (in church) but not that we necessarily don't believe in it (I say this to show that we are conservative).
When I saw the "personal prophecy" my first reaction is "fortune telling." I'm not comfortable with it but I don't know how the church will define it. I'm waiting for an answer to my email and if I don't get in the next day or two, I'll call the church.
I love my church and my pastor but I must know that we are staying true to God's Word. My belief is that anything in regard to our relationship with God can be supported by Scripture - otherwise, if God is giving new revelations outside of His Word, what is the point of the Bible?!?!
I'll update once I get an answer. I appreciate your input.
< Message edited by TrustingGod -- 8/19/2008 8:43:31 PM >
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RE: Personal Prophecy - 8/19/2008 1:07:05 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5677
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TrustingGod
No, not WOF. We are Nazarene. I would say progressive conservative. My understanding is that we discourage speaking in tongues (in church) but not that we necessarily don't believe in it.
When I saw the "personal prophecy" my first reaction is "fortune telling." I'm not comfortable with it but I don't know how the church will define it. I'm waiting for an answer to my email and if I don't get in the next day or two, I'll call the church.
I love my church and my pastor but I must know that we are staying true to God's Word. My belief is that anything in regard to our relationship with God can be supported by Scripture - otherwise, if God is giving new revelations outside of His Word, what is the point of the Bible?!?!
I'll update once I get an answer. I appreciate your input.
I percieve the "Personal Prophecy" dealy that is going around to be junk.
I do believe that God gives Words of Knowledge, Words of Wisdon, and the gift of decernment, but for someone to claim that can forsee the future for anyone that they stand before is (in my opinion) utter nonsense.
I probably get 4 calls a week from folks that want to come and do this service for my Church; I just tell them that they are not what they claim to be.
Because if they could tell the futrue then they would know that I was going to tell them no; and they would not have wasted the time to call me.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
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Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
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RE: Personal Prophecy - 8/19/2008 2:36:28 PM
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selahgirl
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I kinda agree, but kinda not with some of the stuff said about all this. I don't know what the term "personal prophesy" involves as a movement or a philosophy... but I do believe that God will have someone speak into someone elses life and give direction at times concerning their future.
The verse from Jer 29 that was quoted, I think was taken completely out of context. I get your stance on the subject and you may have a valid point but I don't think this verse supports what you are saying. Israel was exiled to Babylon and there were prophets there that were prophesying to Israel. God was telling them to not listen to them because they were false prophets. In later verses it refers to several different prophets of God, that were true prophets.
So you can't use this passage to justify the point just because you don't believe certain aspects of prophesy are valid today... this passage was simply a distinction between false prophets and true prophets as was common in Scripture.
sorry... don't mean to come off as cynical or overly critical... I just think Scripture should be kept in context or following a clear train of thought.
I have many friends that frequent Elijah List and such prophetic stuff... but I've never felt comfortable with it all. Some times they send me stuff and it goes along with what God is saying in my personal life or in my local church or the church as a whole. But some people just start following a man, and they begin to base everything on what that person says God is saying. I have asked the people I know to stop sending me the Elijah List posts, unless it is simply confirming something God is already speaking.
I believe in prophecy, but I believe that about 75% of the stuff out there that is embraced by Christian circles is hoaky. I've seen it abused, I've seen people follow the adrenaline rather than the Spirit of God. I think if something is going on in your personal life, you should be praying and fasting with other people in your local body. And if God speaks direction thru one of them, don't receive it until you have looked God in the face and asked if it's a true word for you or not. If God does lead you to receive prayer from someone in some divine encounter... I firmly believe that they will not tell you anything you don't already know. I believe such prophecies are merely to confirm what God is already speaking to you thru prayer and thru his word.
The danger is that so-called prophets and prophetesses so easily take offense if you don't receive what they say God is telling you to do or not do. It opens the door for you to be labeled as rebellious if you disregard what they claim God is saying for your life. It labels you and puts something on you and on your reputation that may not be from God at all. Sometimes it is a good prophecy that sounds really yummy and makes you feel special... but opens the door to jealousy from those around you and arrogance in your own heart. Sometimes it is something absolutely removed from your understanding at all and puts you at the mercy of other people to interpret for you. You then become dependent upon them to know what God's will is for your life. And that completely undoes the work of the cross and the tearing of the veil in the temple.
I wouldn't want just anyone prophesying or even praying over me. I'm very careful about both. If someone is even praying over you and they go off into praying things you don't understand, you need to be real careful about what you agree with in that altar.
If I was you, I would be in prayer about it all. Definitely reading Scripture on the subject. And if your church endorses such things or has special services... I would sit and watch and talk to God during them before participating... ask God to confirm what is truly from him. I think you're right on for seeking Godly counsel on the matter, and for communicating with your leadership about it all. But just be sure that you keep Christ first and you don't step off and begin to follow a person or a teaching or anything else above God himself. We all so easily get distracted when something intrigues us, and Satan is a master at approaching us with pretty, sparkley things. Eve loved God but she still took the apple. Adam loved God but he still put his wife's will and opinion before God. Good people, even leaders, even someone kneeling in the altar wanting to pray for you, can still miss God.
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RE: Personal Prophecy - 8/19/2008 2:56:20 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6261
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
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quote:
ORIGINAL: selahgirl
I kinda agree, but kinda not with some of the stuff said about all this. I don't know what the term "personal prophesy" involves as a movement or a philosophy... but I do believe that God will have someone speak into someone elses life and give direction at times concerning their future.
The verse from Jer 29 that was quoted, I think was taken completely out of context. I get your stance on the subject and you may have a valid point but I don't think this verse supports what you are saying. Israel was exiled to Babylon and there were prophets there that were prophesying to Israel. God was telling them to not listen to them because they were false prophets. In later verses it refers to several different prophets of God, that were true prophets.
So you can't use this passage to justify the point just because you don't believe certain aspects of prophesy are valid today... this passage was simply a distinction between false prophets and true prophets as was common in Scripture.
sorry... don't mean to come off as cynical or overly critical... I just think Scripture should be kept in context or following a clear train of thought.
My point is that all throughout Scripture we see prophecy for either Jesus, Israel, the Church, etc.. not the circus side-show things seen in some circles today.
quote:
ORIGINAL: selahgirl
I have many friends that frequent Elijah List and such prophetic stuff... but I've never felt comfortable with it all.
Good, because it's all garbage. Have you seen the latest ploy by Patricia King? Going to morturaries to raise the dead.. calling on people to practice bringing back to life "roadkill"?
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Personal Prophecy - 8/19/2008 10:23:28 PM
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peacebringer
Posts: 221
Joined: 5/20/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Is your church a 'Word of Faith' type church?
There is something disturbing with "times of healing and prophecy" type announcements. As if we can dictate when God will heal. As if we can tell God when to do something, etc..
In terms of "personal prophecy" this is something that was popularized by a book from the 1980's by Dr. Bill Hamon. There is no evidence of "personal prophecy" in the Bible that did not relate to the whole of Israel and/or the Church. Those who are personal prophets today, then, should be avoided as they are actually using divination.
Jeremiah 29:8 Yes, this is what the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says: "Do not let the prophets and diviners among you deceive you. Do not listen to the dreams you encourage them to have.
Many from these 'Elijah List'/Latter Rain type circles love to say that we should pay heed to 1 Thesolonians 5:20 - do not treat prophecies lightly.
It is true that we are not to take prophecies lightly. But this is not talking about personal prophecies because we cannot find that taught or demonstrated in the Bible. If someone gives you a personal prophecy you must then, based on what the Bible teaches, disregard it because it is not true prophecy but rather divination.
However, we must not be contemptuous of prophecies given to individuals for the whole church based on what God has already spoken in His Word. In any case, all prophecy must be tested for compliance with the written Word and if it purports to speak of future events, it must be tested against accuracy and truth of fulfillment.
1 Corinthians 14:29 Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said.
Notice that prophecy here is done in the context of the whole church, in front of the church, not in a personal way. That is so others can judge what is being said, testing it against the written Word. It is also a protection against the cultic nature of divination being practiced in the past right up through today.
We are to avoid false prophets, and anyone who practices divination is, by Biblical definition, a type of false prophet.
Not that I am advocating what passes for "personal prophecy" but Paul was given a personal prophecy not to go to Jerusalem, or at least what would happen to him if he did.
_____________________________
http://peacebringer7.wordpress.com/
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RE: Personal Prophecy - 8/19/2008 11:02:03 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
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quote:
The danger is that so-called prophets and prophetesses so easily take offense if you don't receive what they say God is telling you to do or not do. It opens the door for you to be labeled as rebellious if you disregard what they claim God is saying for your life. It labels you and puts something on you and on your reputation that may not be from God at all. Sometimes it is a good prophecy that sounds really yummy and makes you feel special... but opens the door to jealousy from those around you and arrogance in your own heart. Sometimes it is something absolutely removed from your understanding at all and puts you at the mercy of other people to interpret for you. You then become dependent upon them to know what God's will is for your life. And that completely undoes the work of the cross and the tearing of the veil in the temple.
Hi Selahgirl
Reading your whole post, I agree with some parts and not others; but, reading the above quote, reminds me why NO ONE will EVER prophesy over me again. 
All the rivers run into the sea, yet the sea is not full..........false prophets 3000 years ago and false prophets in the 21st century. Is there a difference?
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RE: Personal Prophecy - 8/19/2008 11:33:46 PM
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rlj
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quote:
The vast majority of these "Prophets" really give me a diaper rash.
I know it's wrong because these are men who are trying to make a living (or a buck) out of manipulating a gift of the Lord but I can't help but laugh at that. : /
It would have been funnier though if instead of "kiss my grits" you told him "If you were really a prophet then you would know that Ichabod is already written on this church because of the last guy we wouldn't let come in". ; )
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This is who I'm voting for. He is from the same party I voted for last time. This is consistent with my belief in the failure of the two party system and my disgust with it.
http://www.baldwin08.com/#
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RE: Personal Prophecy - 8/20/2008 12:40:12 AM
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Ezra
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quote:
The longer my email request is ignored the more I wonder what is going on!
I believe I can safely make a "personal prophecy" on this point -- you will never find out what's really going on. Let me know when it is "fulfilled".
What we have today are charlatans going about declaring themselves to be apostles and prophets. This is the end result.
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: Personal Prophecy - 8/20/2008 5:17:17 AM
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csl7037
Posts: 1769
Joined: 3/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
He thin told me that God said that "Icabod" would be written over my Church if I did not use him.
Ugh, that makes me sick.
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RE: Personal Prophecy - 8/20/2008 11:51:46 AM
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TrustingGod
Posts: 150
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I shouldn't have been so skeptical about getting my email answered - don't want to give the wrong impression. The delay was that I sent it to a "general email" rather than the specific person doing this. Since I have a distance friendship with him (through my husband), I should have sent it there first. I did this morning and have received this response:
quote:
The evening is set up as a time of personal ministry. There will be about 8 teams that are at the front of the sanctuary and as you desire you go forward to the team God leads you to and let them know what it is that you are there for whether it be healing of some sort or you are looking for direction or there is a specific situation that you need wisdom for and the team will pray for you regarding your request. The prophecy that they give will be what they hearing the Lord say about the situation. You can give them as little or as much info as you want and they will simply share with you what they are hearing from the Lord.
So tell me what you think. I'm new to this and I want to ask the right questions. I also don't want to see something that isn't there.
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RE: Personal Prophecy - 8/20/2008 12:33:41 PM
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TrustingGod
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Here is additional info I received from the person who oversees the prophetic ministries at the church:
quote:
This Sunday night service there will be an opporunity for anyone who wants to receive a prophetic word. Instructions will be given at the service but a basic rundown is that you would approach the prophetic team, give your first name, then we would pray for you and tell you what we are hearing from the Lord for you. Below is the purpose and goal of our ministry.
3 Purposes of a prophetic word. 1 Cor. 14:1-4 vs. 3 But everyone who prophesies speaks to men for their strengthening, encouragement and comfort.
OUR goal is to Edify, encourage, and comfort you. To share the love of our God with you. Eph. 3: 16-19 I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, 17so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, 18may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, 19and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.
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RE: Personal Prophecy - 8/20/2008 1:07:34 PM
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selahgirl
Posts: 1235
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I've been in such services and I believe they are valid. Though the focus is more on prayer than prophecy, I believe that there is a place for speaking into someone's life to edify them as mentioned by your leadership. So many take such things lightly and open the door for things to quickly and subtly get out of order... the next thing you know everything snowballs and everyone is scratching their heads and wondering what went wrong. It can wound alot of people, if you don't have someone truly leading that loves Christ and loves people genuinely.
Cautions: prophecy shouldn't be limited to a specific chosen few... that sets up an elitist group. It is a gift available to anyone. Some move in it more than others.
whoever is participating in prayer ministry should be given some guidelines. I like that your leadership is going to express such boundaries at the start of the event. But there should be a team leader (one in each group), someone seasoned (NOT ARROGANT) that kinda observes and deals with anything that might step out of order at any point. That team leader should not be the one doing most of the praying. Much of their job should reflect that of the Holy Spirit, to come along side and guide things along. Praying when necessary, but always opening the way for others to step up and minister as well. That's discipling in action.
During those guidelines, people should be clued in on the right heart concerning prayer as well as prophecy. I always explain prophecy given to someone as being like delivering mail. You give them what you feel you have received and they do what they want with it... whether they feel it is junk mail or whether they feel it's a check for a million dollars. As people ministering thru prayer or prophecy... we are like the mailman. We can't take credit or blame for whatever is in that envelope.
By that same token the people receiving prayer must understand that they are to receive only what God confirms to their heart. They have the freedom to reject anything anyone says with no hesitation or fear. It is a personal ministry, personal conversation, personal work... we minister to one another thru prayer and words of wisdom and knowledge and prophecy... but the only thing that matters is what God speaks or directs you to do in your heart. Ministry is all outward... each of us decides what we allow into our heart. That's maturity in our spiritual walk, that's personal accountability.
When it comes to new Christians or young Christians... that's when leadership is accountable to watch over those that are young and make sure that ministry is kept in order for them. Talk to them thru the process and answer any questions they may have. And watch over what ANYONE prays or speaks into their life.
And ministry should always be coupled with Scripture. Ask God for confirmation from his word in what is said or shared.
So any way... off the top of my head... there is so much involved in such things. It has the potential to be abused... Satan loves to dirty up the things that are important... so great care must be done to keep things in order and in line with the Word of God. I guarantee arrogance will be knocking on the door of every heart in that place. That is something your leadership and prayer teams should be sure to address as they intercede before the event.
Hope this helps.
Test what I've said, measure it to the Word. Ask the Spirit of God to reveal Truth to you.
And disregard anything I"ve said that he doesn't confirm.
That's what I tell every person I pray or prophesy over.
yes, I believe in prophecy.
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RE: Personal Prophecy - 8/20/2008 10:28:22 PM
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lw9
Posts: 1126
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Hello TrustingGod -
quote:
This Sunday night service there will be an opporunity for anyone who wants to receive a prophetic word. Instructions will be given at the service but a basic rundown is that you would approach the prophetic team, give your first name, then we would pray for you and tell you what we are hearing from the Lord for you. Below is the purpose and goal of our ministry.
My questions would be: Why do we have the Holy Spirit if we need to seek out others for guidance, and why can't we ask God ourselves? To be really honest, the way the above is described really does sound like a fortune telling session to me. I've never read anything about 'prophetic teams' in the Bible. I guess my concern is that it seems like so many Christians are being manipulated into becoming too reliant upon other people for their needs - "Come here and get healed!"... "Go there and receive special messages!". It's a really dangerous trend.
If someone needs direction or healing from God in their lives, they don't even have to leave the house. We can all pray, seek God, and study God's word for direction for ourselves. I can totally understand going to see one's pastor to talk and pray, but I'm just not seeing where God has instituted special prophetic teams that we are to seek guidance from. People can steer us wrong even as they proclaim to be hearing from God, but the Spirit - the same Spirit every Christian has - does not lie. I'm not trying to be mean or anything, but considering the track record of 'prophets' out there these days, I would be very, very careful and test all things through scripture.
_____________________________
Aperture Science. We do what we must because we can.
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RE: Personal Prophecy - 8/21/2008 11:43:08 AM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
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Selahgirl....sorry, but have you read your post? I'm not being sarcastic here. You immediatly make some kind of rebuttal for everything you say about what goes on in the type of meeting you are describing.
ie:quote:
So many take such things lightly and open the door for things to quickly and subtly get out of order... the next thing you know everything snowballs and everyone is scratching their heads and wondering what went wrong.
We'll pray for people, but leave room for edification through prophecy...but watch out, because it can get out of hand!
ie:quote:
whoever is participating in prayer ministry should be given some guidelines
First of all, the Holy spirit is leading...because where else are we getting this edification from, if not the Holy Spirit?...but those participating should be given guidelines. By who? Everyone is a 'prophet' here and that is why things get out of hand.
I don't want to pick apart your post, but I have been in these meetings and participated and have had driven home the very clear message from God that I should not have anything to do with them.
I do not find this practice in Scripture....the Holy Spirit is not a consultant.
He is not some kind of Holy spiritual crystal ball...and I know that is not what you are saying....but there are so many cautions in your post as to render the positive (if there is any) very tenuous indeed.
My advice? Stay away!
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RE: Personal Prophecy - 8/21/2008 12:48:27 PM
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wintery
Posts: 1875
Joined: 2/1/2007
From: nw alabama
Status: offline
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There is NO way to keep "personal prophecy" on track.
Nobody needs a "personal prophecy" as badly as the "personal prophet" wants to give it.
I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.
(Isaiah 45:19)
from John Wesley's notes on this verse:
"In secret - The Heathen idols deliver oracles in obscure cells and caverns: but I have delivered my oracles to Israel publickly and plainly."
Got Bible?
quote:
ORIGINAL: lw9
People can steer us wrong even as they proclaim to be hearing from God, but the Spirit - the same Spirit every Christian has - does not lie.
^^^Right, and they will steer us wrong. Think about it--a person in a delicate state of mind or emotional state who seeks a word from a person instead of the comfort and peace only God can give--is exactly the kind of person who does NOT need to hear false hope or false judgment--both of which lead to a false condemnation--one because they never got what was promised or implied and the other because they try to find themselves guilty of whatever fault the "prophet" put on them.
Let's leave "The Secret Word" to Groucho Marx where it belongs!!!!
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RE: Personal Prophecy - 8/21/2008 1:14:40 PM
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So just out of my own morbid curiousity how do some of these solicitations go? 
