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RE: Marriage preparation through relationships - 8/28/2008 4:45:32 PM
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joy2give2u
Posts: 5127
Joined: 9/19/2006
From: Indiana
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quote:
My last and final post here may seem offensive or may be appreciated. Either way I feel it's something I need to say. I apprieciate you posting.......dialog, at lleast for me always leads to growth or definition of how life is seen.
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Joy, you have posted about many personal things on the forums about yourself. Interesting........I would say I have shared very little that is deeply personal on here. I share things God shows me, ways I see him, experiences I have with people, and thoughts going through my mind but non of them are so personal that I would not share with someone in real life as well.
LOL I think we all define personal differently...........there are things I have not nor would ever share with others on here because they are much too touching for me to share..........some personal things I would not share online others do with ease...........for example if I was in a relationship with someone on Crosswalk nobody would probably know until we said "I do"
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I can't help feel that this thread is a reflection on your most innermost personal thoughts? Again I do not quote this to be a bother but I have to disagree........Untill Kimber made the comment about her mother I mentioned and my other friend and I discussed how hard it is for her to recongize a healthy relationship when one is in front of her I never realized how very blessed I am to have learned what a relationship should look like from my relationship with my father.
More then a reflection on my most innermost personal thought I would say it was a topic I had never considered until circumstances brought it to the forefront of my mind, then I discussed it on here, mulling over and working out what I thought and believed as I read and responded to post.
Nothing I have shared on crosswalk is a reflection of my most innermost personal thought but it is all a reflection of my personal thoughts racing through my mind as I type.
My most innermost personal thoughts have to do with things God is revealing to me, ways he is speaking and transformations he is making in me.........my innermost personal thoughts I only share with those with whom I have a deep intimacy..........my father and the Lord.
I must correct myself ...........there was twice I shared what I would consider a very deep personal thought on here........something God showed me which spoke so deeply to me I found it hard to express to others........and most people took the golden nugget God had given me and attempted to make it nothing but a lump of coal because they themselves could not see it for what it was.........
If I had a high horse thing it would be peoples unwillingness to realize just bcause something has not been experienced or spoken to you from the Lord does not mean it has not for another...........I think often people are too busy trying to fit every post into their life expeiences that they fail to recongize another's life expeiences.........
Ok off the high horse.
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biggest differences between a parental relationship and a marriage one is that the parental one you are not bound to it You are if you have made a committment......I realize you can not comprehend the relationship I made with my father because you have never made a committment to partner with your father for a period of time........We never said I do but my heart said.....Daddy I will never let you walk this alone........I am here for you until God calls you home..........and though my father would have encouraged me to marry if I had met someone.......I could not have left him......my committment was that strong........and God knew it.....so he took my father home for his sake and for mine........
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But you can never leave your spouse People do all the time........it is not the I DO or the marriage certificate which keeps you rooted when thing are hard......it is the committment.........that committment is not limited to a husband and wife since it based on the heart of the person and not there sex or status.
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You are one with him or her till death I was with my father, once my heart was committed, till death do us part.
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And since it is that way, it will never compare to any other relationship. To be honest Above_all I am wondering why it seems to be very important to you that a marriage relationship not be compared to any other........Why? Does the possiblity of a non marriage relationship with the same committment, emotional,spiritual, and mental intimacy somehow make the marriage relationship mean less? Why is it not possible for two who are not married to have as deep a relationship? And if it is does that somehow make the marriage relationship seem less to you?
You may be right and I may find out some day that the relationship I had with my father or Kimber had with her mother is nothing compared to the relationship between a husband and wife.........but really unless someone has experienced both they don't know..........so neither you or I know............make sense?
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On that note, we all have to eventually release our bond with our parents so that we can be one with our spouse. Agreed when it comes to a normal child/parent relationship but there could be some situations ,where God places two together who otherwise would be alone, and allows them to experience the same depth of relationship. An experience which will be to death do us part.
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If I was that close to my parents, I would never have felt the need or want for a husband. Honesetly. For the first six years I lived with and took care of my father I had not desire to get married......I had a strong desire to get married when I was young. I would pray about it all the time till finally I asked God........If I am not going to get married if he would please take the desire away from me.
At this point my father had already been disgnosed but I was not living with him..........
God took my desire away.........seriously........I had no desire to marry being quite content in my life.
Dad got worse, my sisters and I discussed the situation and decided it was best for someone to move in and I was the practical choice...........
The desire to marry was still gone and I was very content in my life.........
Around six months before my father died the desire came back...........At the time I was confused as to what the Lord was doing........now I know.
God took the desire away so I was able to committ to being there for my father and build a relationship which was more then I could have imagined..........I am so very thankful for those years with my father.........expeiencing him as more then a father...........unless you have had the chance to be in such a relationship it makes no sense what so ever and I think few are ever blessed with the opportunity God gave me...........and in it he never forgot about me, using the time to prepared me and teach me what a healthy relationship will look like with my spouse.........
I really think it is impossible to r understand what I am talking about unless it is experienced personally.
I don't really expect others to understand or relate.
But I do think we all have relationships God has used to prepare us for marriage which was the topic of this thread in the beginning ......... 
_____________________________
Transformation happens NOT when we get through scripture BUT when scripture gets through Us
My Smiles
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RE: Marriage preparation through relationships - 8/28/2008 9:08:44 PM
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John_O
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quote:
ORIGINAL: joy2give2u
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And since it is that way, it will never compare to any other relationship. To be honest Above_all I am wondering why it seems to be very important to you that a marriage relationship not be compared to any other........Why? Does the possiblity of a non marriage relationship with the same committment, emotional,spiritual, and mental intimacy somehow make the marriage relationship mean less? Why is it not possible for two who are not married to have as deep a relationship? And if it is does that somehow make the marriage relationship seem less to you?
This is the same thing that the homosexuals are saying. They say that their relationships are exactly the same as marriage. But they are not. God defines marriage as the only relationship where two become one.
You had a great relationship with your dad. but it wasn't a marriage.
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Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: Marriage preparation through relationships - 8/28/2008 9:34:36 PM
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joy2give2u
Posts: 5127
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From: Indiana
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quote:
You had a great relationship with your dad. but it wasn't a marriage. I have never implied I was married to my father.......what I have said is that the relationship I had with him, the oneness....the working as one unit to walk through life has better prepared me for marriage then I would be if I had not had the relationship.
I really don't understand why this is such a threatening topic........
No matter how much I roll it over in my mind for the life of me I can't figure out what is the big deal..........
_____________________________
Transformation happens NOT when we get through scripture BUT when scripture gets through Us
My Smiles
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RE: Marriage preparation through relationships - 8/28/2008 9:57:19 PM
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John_O
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quote:
ORIGINAL: joy2give2u
quote:
You had a great relationship with your dad. but it wasn't a marriage. I have never implied I was married to my father.......what I have said is that the relationship I had with him, the oneness....the working as one unit to walk through life has better prepared me for marriage then I would be if I had not had the relationship.
I really don't understand why this is such a threatening topic........
No matter how much I roll it over in my mind for the life of me I can't figure out what is the big deal..........
It's not threatening at all. We are just trying to correct a non-biblical viewpoint you are holding.
No one is arguing that your relationship with your dad was not exceptional, or that it did not help prepare you for marriage. What we are saying is that it is not as close as marriage (a good one) is.
The only way to prove this to you is for you to have a good marriage. Obviously beyond our capacity to do. So you'll just have to trust God's word (and our experience) on it.
Why is it so important that your relationship with your father is seen as equal to marriage?
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: Marriage preparation through relationships - 8/28/2008 10:05:02 PM
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joy2give2u
Posts: 5127
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From: Indiana
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quote:
Since we all have the same Holy Spirit dwelling within us we are all "one" in the Father and the Son. Note however that scripture does not talk of the marriage of the lamb until we get to heaven. That level of "oneness" is unavailable except in marriage.
Interesting........you have never been in church worshiping become one in the spirit with the person worshipping next to you?
Or have you never prayed with another in a way that your spirit and their spirit merge as one with the holy spirit?
In a small group I use to lead one of the ladies, having previously been married and currently dating a gentleman she was engaged too with whom she had already been one physically, ask me where in the bible it says that since they have already been one physically they should stop until they got married.
I did not give a quick answer because I wanted to pray about it and see where God would lead.
When I got together with her the next day I did not come armed with bible verse's......instead I asked a simple question.........
"Are you one with your husband to be in every area? Are you one with your money? Your home? Your time? and so forth"
Her reply, "Well no not yet"
I believe being one physically is the physical manifestation of a oneness which already exist or the committment (marry vows) have been given..........
The Lord is clear that a man and woman become one in the flesh to represent the complete oneness they have committed to each other......
To say we can not experience different forms of oneness with others makes no sense to me..........A acrobatic team working in unison as a singular unit on a rope are one........
_____________________________
Transformation happens NOT when we get through scripture BUT when scripture gets through Us
My Smiles
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RE: Marriage preparation through relationships - 8/28/2008 10:08:30 PM
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John_O
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quote:
ORIGINAL: joy2give2u
quote:
Since we all have the same Holy Spirit dwelling within us we are all "one" in the Father and the Son. Note however that scripture does not talk of the marriage of the lamb until we get to heaven. That level of "oneness" is unavailable except in marriage.
Interesting........you have never been in church worshiping become one in the spirit with the person worshipping next to you?
Or have you never prayed with another in a way that your spirit and their spirit merge as one with the holy spirit?
All the time. I'm "one" in the Spirit with all believers all the time, sometimes I'm more aware of it than others. It's still not as close as (a good) marriage.
Believe what you choose to believe Joy. When you get married you will see.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: Marriage preparation through relationships - 8/28/2008 10:24:07 PM
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joy2give2u
Posts: 5127
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From: Indiana
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quote:
It's not threatening at all. We are just trying to correct a non-biblical viewpoint you are holding. Please show me where I have a non-biblical viewpoint...........I reread my post and don't see one.
I am really curious what you see as non-biblical.........
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Why is it so important that your relationship with your father is seen as equal to marriage It isn't to me....... if you read back you will see this train of thought was not started by me........I have just been responding.I love a good discussion......challenges me to think....
My thought through this all is how little we understand the depth of love God intended us to have in the relationships he has given us with our parents, friends, family, and since we often do not experience relationships which reflex what I believe is God's heart for relationships we often go into marriage not recognizing those things which speak love and unity in a relationship......
My point was how very thankful I am for the relationship the Lord gave me with my father and Kimber with her mother for both of us can and will recongnize love as expressed in a intimate relationship more easily then someone such as my other friend how has never experienced it.
< Message edited by joy2give2u -- 8/28/2008 10:32:58 PM >
_____________________________
Transformation happens NOT when we get through scripture BUT when scripture gets through Us
My Smiles
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RE: Marriage preparation through relationships - 8/29/2008 9:59:00 AM
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joy2give2u
Posts: 5127
Joined: 9/19/2006
From: Indiana
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quote:
The verse in John speaks about our Spiritual oneness in Christ as a family of G-d and as a whole. The verse in John also speaks of Jesus praying that we would be one as he and the father are one......
How are The father and Son one? Do they have a heart which beats as one? Doesn't Jesus say he only does what he see's his father doing? Does that not make their actions one?
If Jesus prayed we could be one as He and His Father were one wouldn't it mean that we also can build relationships in which our hearts beat as one and our actions are in unison?
In Ephs. We are called to one hope.......Could that mean it is possible for us to be one with another in our hopes and dreams?
In Philippians's 1:27 we are to contend as one man for the faith of the gospel.........we are to work in such unison that we are as one man........
Isn't the family relationship suppose to reflect the church body? If so are we not to contend in a family as one unit reflecting God's light to the world?
I believe the bible is very clear that deep, intimate relationships built on unity, a oneness is God's heart for relationships not just between husbands and wives but fathers/daughters and brothers/ sisters in Christ as well.
I Samuel 18:1 1.And it came to pass, when he had made an end of speaking unto Saul, that the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul
Johnathan was knit with the soul of David...........and he loved him as his own soul...........
What a beautiful picture...........two pieces of yarn being knit together as one.........two men, two friends, who built a relationship so deep, so intimate their two souls were knitted together in such a way they became one.
Again I ask where is my non biblical belief I am promoting?
One last thought.......I find it interesting the King James, which I know is the preferred translation of some, actually says about a man and wife........
Gen.2:24.Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Interesting a distintion is made that they become one flesh...........Is it possible that, as many verses state, we are to build relationships so deep it as though we are one.......that these relationship, this becoming one is so much God's heart for our relationships that he added the one flesh to distinguish the marriage relationship from all others? Very interesting.
< Message edited by joy2give2u -- 8/29/2008 6:37:35 PM >
_____________________________
Transformation happens NOT when we get through scripture BUT when scripture gets through Us
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RE: Marriage preparation through relationships - 8/29/2008 3:50:11 PM
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joy2give2u
Posts: 5127
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From: Indiana
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quote:
The physical connection with a spouse is meant to bring that oneness to a different level. Let me make sure I understand........so you are saying a couple, who choses to marry, and can never consummate the marriage for some reason, will never reach the level of intimacy, oneness and love that a couple who do will?
Above_All whether we like to acknowledge it here in the singles folder or not there will be some who will never marry. Your stantz implies that these people, who never marry, have no hope of ever experiencing a deep, intimate, loving, sacrificing, committed relationship with another human being.
If desiring such a relationship is how God designed us, created us, would he only allow those who marry to experience it?
In the OP I also mentioned the relationship with the girls yet somehow that part has been over looked I wonder why?
Can I love the girls as much as I will love my husband..........I can't answer this question because I don't see love in comparisons.
When you chose to give your heart to another......and are committed to loving them with everything in you........and you willing accept their love in return it is not measured in degrees but totality.
Kimber loved her mother with a love so deep loving more would seem impossible
Just as I loved my father with that same depth of love and I love the girls........loving one does not mean I can't love the other as much.
Loving father does not rob future love from my husband.........instead it grows my ability to love.
In my mind it is comparable to saying since I love the girls with such a deep love......they are a part of who I am ........that I will be incapable of loving another child or children of my own.
At my age there is a good probability( though I believe God has other plans) that I will never have children so when I marry either my husband will give me children from a previous marriage or we will adopt and the love I have for my new child, whether his or through adoption, will not be any more or less then the love I now have for the girls.......It may manifest differently yet the depth will not have been dependent on how much I loved the girls........except for the fact I have learned through my relationship with them how to love a child......how to care more about their welfare then my own.........
I am a good aunt who loves three darling little girls with a love so deep I can physically feel an ache in my gut sometimes when I am with them........My heart pounds in my chest when I see them laugh with joy........and I would lay down my life for them......they are a part of me and I am a part of them.........yet I know when I have my own child, no matter how God choses to bring him or her to me, I will the same emotions, the same feeling in my gut, the same beating of my heart when I am with them.........
Honestly I don't think it is in me to love a child I have committed to love with anything less then what I already know and as my ability to love continues to grow so will my capacity to love.
Maybe this is an area we will never see eye to eye because of how we see love..........
To me it is not something that can be measured on a comparison chart........This time I loved to this degree or that.....and with so and so I loved to this degree...
Love is...... something which grows in correlations to the committment, sacrifice and giving of oneself to another.....
The only degree in which to measure love, in my opinion, is to the degree we are willing to walk it out in live and to the degree we are willing to allow ourselves to love.
When a person gives their love freely and in returns loves freely there is not gate to stop the flow............
And as the bible clearly tells us......the more love we allow to flow the more love we are giving to flow out of us............
Love grows as we walk through life together in committment.
< Message edited by joy2give2u -- 8/29/2008 4:26:19 PM >
_____________________________
Transformation happens NOT when we get through scripture BUT when scripture gets through Us
My Smiles
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RE: Marriage preparation through relationships - 8/29/2008 4:25:58 PM
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AlwaysR8chel
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Above_All
This explains why married couples who are struggling to be close spiritually and emotionally don't have a good sex life, if any at all.
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.... this is a bold blanket statement. 
I was bummed that two posters twisted this thread into something it wasn't meant to be... so I un-subscribed.
I came back to take a peek today.... and was very encouraged by Joy's last post....
I can't help but wonder why people have the need to appear as if they know all.... seemingly to lack all humbleness and humility. I'm wondering what there is to gain by nit-picking a thread so terribly?
I love the story of David and Jonathan, Joy....
I remember teaching it to a class of Sunday school kids.... the idea of having a friend so close to the heart was foreign to some of the children.... I thought it was a wonderful lesson... and truly opened some little eyes and hearts....
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RE: Marriage preparation through relationships - 8/29/2008 4:48:28 PM
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joy2give2u
Posts: 5127
Joined: 9/19/2006
From: Indiana
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quote:
I love the story of David and Jonathan, Joy.... Hey Rach.........I love the story as well.
I actually was not going to get on and post today when out of the blue a the name Jonathan popped into my mind.........
I vaguely remembered something about Jonathan and David having a deep friendship and I figured I didn't just think of it for no reason so I went to read the story.
I first reached for the nlv when I felt I should look it up in the king james instead.
WOW
One little sentence.........that the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul.
That is how I felt about my father, and the girls.
We are knitted together..........two pieces of yarn becoming one.........that is what happened over the seven years I took care of my father and also explains why, after he died, I felt like my life was unraveling. It was.
I guess what I don't understand the most about the discussion on this thread is why comparison is so important and how my post seems non biblical to some.
I do think it is so like God, when I was frustrated, to give me a verse which reminds me of how very special my relationship with my father and the one I still have with the girls is and how rare..........
I was and am truly bless...........
And I believe my future family will be blessed because God has used these relationships to prepare for my future ones.
Today I am not frustrated or hurt as I was last night.......today I am smiling with thanks fullness that God has already taught me how to open my heart and love........in such a way that my husband and children will reap what God has already sowed into my life..........very cool huh?
_____________________________
Transformation happens NOT when we get through scripture BUT when scripture gets through Us
My Smiles
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