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RE: Why I Fear McCain - 8/28/2008 11:37:33 AM
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huskarine
Posts: 444
Joined: 7/31/2008
From: Wheaton, IL
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RichLP
quote:
ORIGINAL: huskarine
ok, richlp, what is your definition of victory in OIF??? (since we are there you know...)
You tell me. Because the Bush administration is yet to make that clear.
to be an accuser of a non-victory, it would be wise to know victory in the first place. the alternative is stupid bickering. so, please tell me your plan before you criticize the effects of a war.
and believe me, i see the effects, and i am a combat veteran so i have been there.
_____________________________
"Success is equated with excess/the ambition for excess wrecks us/as the top of the mind becomes the bottom line/when success is equated with excess" -Switchfoot "American Dream"
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RE: Why I Fear McCain - 8/28/2008 12:15:25 PM
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kernsfamily
Posts: 1356
Joined: 4/26/2006
From: Dallas (originally Detroit)
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RichLP
quote:
ORIGINAL: huskarine
ok, richlp, what is your definition of victory in OIF??? (since we are there you know...)
You tell me. Because the Bush administration is yet to make that clear.
Stabilize the government....and be at a place to where the Iraqi army can take care of things on their own.
That's been made PERFECTLY clear....and, MUCH progress has been made recently (but, you wouldn't hear of such a thing on the news)
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: Why I Fear McCain - 8/28/2008 12:25:41 PM
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ljmac
Posts: 1419
Joined: 11/20/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RichLP
quote:
ORIGINAL: ljmac
Working with a congress of the opposite party has little to do with being a lame duck. Just look at GWB. The liberals in Congerss have been totally powerless to change the war. GWB is in charge and they can't do a thing about it except grind their teeth as our successes mount.
Clinton had his best years when Republicans became majority, aside of course from his little problem of trying to force an employee to have sex with him and having the coverup lead to his impeachment. Before Republicans were in charge his health care program went up in flames, his budgets never even forecast a surplus during his presidency and his homosexuals-in-foxholes program went down the tubes. He also got much credit for modernizing welfare, something that never would have happened han liberals run the show.
McCain will never be the weakling some fantasize about. He's far too strong willed.
Bush is in charge - and yet that's why Iraqis are demanding that we get out. So much for "staying the course," and so much for McCain saying that leaving would be equal to defeat.
McCain too strong willed? Yes, he's stubborn, and he's also terribly ignorant of the Middle East... and he's also very hawkish. Put him in office and we're likely to see an escalation of hostilities.
Furthermore, if you talk about anything mounting, what has been mounting are Iraqi deaths and refugees, not to mention the thousands of injured and wounded US troops, and the mounting bill of this war.
Our successes? Really? In Iraq? Surely you jest. Because whatever anyone says the surge accomplished was accomplished largely due to the ethnic cleansing in Baghdad.
The one thing we succeeded in Iraq with was making Iran the paramount power in the region, and if you consider THAT a success for the interests of our country, I don't know what to say.
What is the difference between your wishes for our participation in Iraq and Osama bin Laden's?
Do you lose sleep because we're winning the war?
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RE: Why I Fear McCain - 8/28/2008 12:28:30 PM
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RichLP
Posts: 1626
Joined: 5/4/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ljmac
quote:
ORIGINAL: RichLP
quote:
ORIGINAL: ljmac
Working with a congress of the opposite party has little to do with being a lame duck. Just look at GWB. The liberals in Congerss have been totally powerless to change the war. GWB is in charge and they can't do a thing about it except grind their teeth as our successes mount.
Clinton had his best years when Republicans became majority, aside of course from his little problem of trying to force an employee to have sex with him and having the coverup lead to his impeachment. Before Republicans were in charge his health care program went up in flames, his budgets never even forecast a surplus during his presidency and his homosexuals-in-foxholes program went down the tubes. He also got much credit for modernizing welfare, something that never would have happened han liberals run the show.
McCain will never be the weakling some fantasize about. He's far too strong willed.
Bush is in charge - and yet that's why Iraqis are demanding that we get out. So much for "staying the course," and so much for McCain saying that leaving would be equal to defeat.
McCain too strong willed? Yes, he's stubborn, and he's also terribly ignorant of the Middle East... and he's also very hawkish. Put him in office and we're likely to see an escalation of hostilities.
Furthermore, if you talk about anything mounting, what has been mounting are Iraqi deaths and refugees, not to mention the thousands of injured and wounded US troops, and the mounting bill of this war.
Our successes? Really? In Iraq? Surely you jest. Because whatever anyone says the surge accomplished was accomplished largely due to the ethnic cleansing in Baghdad.
The one thing we succeeded in Iraq with was making Iran the paramount power in the region, and if you consider THAT a success for the interests of our country, I don't know what to say.
What is the difference between your wishes for our participation in Iraq and Osama bin Laden's?
Do you lose sleep because we're winning the war?
All you can do is come up with these personal shots and inventions (losing sleep, winning the war).
If you have no refutation for my fact-based statements... oh well.
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Why I Fear McCain - 8/28/2008 12:35:16 PM
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RichLP
Posts: 1626
Joined: 5/4/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huskarine
to be an accuser of a non-victory, it would be wise to know victory in the first place. the alternative is stupid bickering. so, please tell me your plan before you criticize the effects of a war.
and believe me, i see the effects, and i am a combat veteran so i have been there.
First of all, thank you for your service.
Now, you say I should present an alternative plan besides criticizing the effects of a war. Excuse me, but I have EVERY right to criticize. I am a citizen of the United States; I love my country, and I disagreed with this war from the start. Colossal human suffering has been caused thanks to this war.
Victory? Again, the definition of victory rests with those who are the masterminds and current executioners of policy. But if greater Iranian influence in Iraq, which has grown thanks to the vacuum left by the deposition of the Baath and the ascendancy of Nuri Al-Maliki, who is not exactly anti-Iran (he visited Tehran and when Mahmoud Ahmadinejad visited Baghdad, he didn’t even need the security that someone like John McCain needed when he visited Baghdad) is a major development in the region, I hardly see how THAT is a positive development for our country’s interests.
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Why I Fear McCain - 8/28/2008 12:36:33 PM
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RichLP
Posts: 1626
Joined: 5/4/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kernsfamily
quote:
ORIGINAL: RichLP
quote:
ORIGINAL: huskarine
ok, richlp, what is your definition of victory in OIF??? (since we are there you know...)
You tell me. Because the Bush administration is yet to make that clear.
Stabilize the government....and be at a place to where the Iraqi army can take care of things on their own.
That's been made PERFECTLY clear....and, MUCH progress has been made recently (but, you wouldn't hear of such a thing on the news)
So if they want us to leave we should leave, right?
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Why I Fear McCain - 8/28/2008 12:52:43 PM
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ljmac
Posts: 1419
Joined: 11/20/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RichLP
quote:
ORIGINAL: ljmac
quote:
ORIGINAL: RichLP
quote:
ORIGINAL: ljmac
Working with a congress of the opposite party has little to do with being a lame duck. Just look at GWB. The liberals in Congerss have been totally powerless to change the war. GWB is in charge and they can't do a thing about it except grind their teeth as our successes mount.
Clinton had his best years when Republicans became majority, aside of course from his little problem of trying to force an employee to have sex with him and having the coverup lead to his impeachment. Before Republicans were in charge his health care program went up in flames, his budgets never even forecast a surplus during his presidency and his homosexuals-in-foxholes program went down the tubes. He also got much credit for modernizing welfare, something that never would have happened han liberals run the show.
McCain will never be the weakling some fantasize about. He's far too strong willed.
Bush is in charge - and yet that's why Iraqis are demanding that we get out. So much for "staying the course," and so much for McCain saying that leaving would be equal to defeat.
McCain too strong willed? Yes, he's stubborn, and he's also terribly ignorant of the Middle East... and he's also very hawkish. Put him in office and we're likely to see an escalation of hostilities.
Furthermore, if you talk about anything mounting, what has been mounting are Iraqi deaths and refugees, not to mention the thousands of injured and wounded US troops, and the mounting bill of this war.
Our successes? Really? In Iraq? Surely you jest. Because whatever anyone says the surge accomplished was accomplished largely due to the ethnic cleansing in Baghdad.
The one thing we succeeded in Iraq with was making Iran the paramount power in the region, and if you consider THAT a success for the interests of our country, I don't know what to say.
What is the difference between your wishes for our participation in Iraq and Osama bin Laden's?
Do you lose sleep because we're winning the war?
All you can do is come up with these personal shots and inventions (losing sleep, winning the war).
If you have no refutation for my fact-based statements... oh well.
The thought of winning the war really disturbs you.
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RE: Why I Fear McCain - 8/28/2008 12:57:13 PM
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RichLP
Posts: 1626
Joined: 5/4/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ljmac
quote:
ORIGINAL: RichLP
quote:
ORIGINAL: ljmac
quote:
ORIGINAL: RichLP
quote:
ORIGINAL: ljmac
Working with a congress of the opposite party has little to do with being a lame duck. Just look at GWB. The liberals in Congerss have been totally powerless to change the war. GWB is in charge and they can't do a thing about it except grind their teeth as our successes mount.
Clinton had his best years when Republicans became majority, aside of course from his little problem of trying to force an employee to have sex with him and having the coverup lead to his impeachment. Before Republicans were in charge his health care program went up in flames, his budgets never even forecast a surplus during his presidency and his homosexuals-in-foxholes program went down the tubes. He also got much credit for modernizing welfare, something that never would have happened han liberals run the show.
McCain will never be the weakling some fantasize about. He's far too strong willed.
Bush is in charge - and yet that's why Iraqis are demanding that we get out. So much for "staying the course," and so much for McCain saying that leaving would be equal to defeat.
McCain too strong willed? Yes, he's stubborn, and he's also terribly ignorant of the Middle East... and he's also very hawkish. Put him in office and we're likely to see an escalation of hostilities.
Furthermore, if you talk about anything mounting, what has been mounting are Iraqi deaths and refugees, not to mention the thousands of injured and wounded US troops, and the mounting bill of this war.
Our successes? Really? In Iraq? Surely you jest. Because whatever anyone says the surge accomplished was accomplished largely due to the ethnic cleansing in Baghdad.
The one thing we succeeded in Iraq with was making Iran the paramount power in the region, and if you consider THAT a success for the interests of our country, I don't know what to say.
What is the difference between your wishes for our participation in Iraq and Osama bin Laden's?
Do you lose sleep because we're winning the war?
All you can do is come up with these personal shots and inventions (losing sleep, winning the war).
If you have no refutation for my fact-based statements... oh well.
The thought of winning the war really disturbs you.
Personal shots, inventions, refusal to face facts... thus speaks Ljmac.
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Why I Fear McCain - 8/28/2008 1:01:32 PM
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huskarine
Posts: 444
Joined: 7/31/2008
From: Wheaton, IL
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RichLP
quote:
ORIGINAL: huskarine
to be an accuser of a non-victory, it would be wise to know victory in the first place. the alternative is stupid bickering. so, please tell me your plan before you criticize the effects of a war.
and believe me, i see the effects, and i am a combat veteran so i have been there.
First of all, thank you for your service.
Now, you say I should present an alternative plan besides criticizing the effects of a war. Excuse me, but I have EVERY right to criticize. I am a citizen of the United States; I love my country, and I disagreed with this war from the start. Colossal human suffering has been caused thanks to this war.
Victory? Again, the definition of victory rests with those who are the masterminds and current executioners of policy. But if greater Iranian influence in Iraq, which has grown thanks to the vacuum left by the deposition of the Baath and the ascendancy of Nuri Al-Maliki, who is not exactly anti-Iran (he visited Tehran and when Mahmoud Ahmadinejad visited Baghdad, he didn’t even need the security that someone like John McCain needed when he visited Baghdad) is a major development in the region, I hardly see how THAT is a positive development for our country’s interests.
i am thankful to have served you.
but please endulge me for a second, my question was on what you defined as victory, not an alternative plan...in other words, the end result.
my point is that we are in there right now, and i don't know about you, but i have had friends who have died there. their service shall not be in vain. we need to do what we can to win this war. but we need to define winning. so, simply, what is winning this war to you???
or, i can take what you said about not knowing what victory is...your choice. if we suppose the latter, then we have no choice but to support our troops by supporting our current leaders. this is better than losing the war.
_____________________________
"Success is equated with excess/the ambition for excess wrecks us/as the top of the mind becomes the bottom line/when success is equated with excess" -Switchfoot "American Dream"
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RE: Why I Fear McCain - 8/28/2008 2:22:32 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1949
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ljmac
What is the difference between your wishes for our participation in Iraq and Osama bin Laden's?
Do you lose sleep because we're winning the war?
I lose sleep over the trillion dollars that have flown out the window because of this stupid war- plus all of the money we will have to pay in interest.
You don't support the $1 Trillion increase in debt that this war has caused (perhaps even more than that, by some measures), do you? This debt is accruing at a rate of roughly $45 Billion/year. That is roughly $400/year in interest alone for every American family. Suze Ormann talks about saving hundreds of dollars a year by paying off credit card debt, but the federal government has added $400/year to the debt burden of every American family. This is before we even talk about any plan to start paying that money off- if we add $300 to that amount, we can pay it off in about 25 years, assuming we don't start any new wars.
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RE: Why I Fear McCain - 8/28/2008 3:07:55 PM
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kernsfamily
Posts: 1356
Joined: 4/26/2006
From: Dallas (originally Detroit)
Status: offline
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quote:
assuming we don't start any new wars.
who "started" a war? we sure didn't...
we just decided we were going to FINALLY start fighting back...
the "war" had been going on for quite some time.
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: Why I Fear McCain - 8/28/2008 4:34:46 PM
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RichLP
Posts: 1626
Joined: 5/4/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kernsfamily
quote:
assuming we don't start any new wars.
who "started" a war? we sure didn't...
we just decided we were going to FINALLY start fighting back...
the "war" had been going on for quite some time.
Start fighting back against Iraq, who had not attacked us even once EVER?
We DID start a war. WE invaded Iraq. WE sent missiles in the Shock and Awe campaign. WE sent troops to fight the Iraqi army. WE occupied Iraq, an occupation that lasts until this very moment.
WE, the United States, were the initiators of this war against Iraq. WE were the aggressors.
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Why I Fear McCain - 8/28/2008 4:37:19 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1949
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kernsfamily
quote:
assuming we don't start any new wars.
who "started" a war? we sure didn't...
we just decided we were going to FINALLY start fighting back...
the "war" had been going on for quite some time.
Riiiight...
You seem to be implying that Iraq's military landed troops in Virginia who started marching towards Washington DC back in 2002.
If I recall correctly, in 2002, Bush started talking about mushroom clouds and Hussein being in violation of a UN Treaty. He said we should invade if Iraq didn't let weapons inspectors in.
Iraq let weapons inspectors in, and the weapons inspectors didn't find anything. We concluded that the Iraqis must be hiding weapons from the inspectors, and we decided to invade- despite the fact that the world didn't think Iraq was hiding anything.
Here we are $1 Trillion later. I hope that proving our suspicions false was worth all that money. In any case, whether you agree with me or not, you're still responsible for an extra $400/year in debt service because of this foreign misadventure.
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RE: Why I Fear McCain - 8/28/2008 5:21:14 PM
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ljmac
Posts: 1419
Joined: 11/20/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
quote:
ORIGINAL: ljmac
What is the difference between your wishes for our participation in Iraq and Osama bin Laden's?
Do you lose sleep because we're winning the war?
I lose sleep over the trillion dollars that have flown out the window because of this stupid war- plus all of the money we will have to pay in interest.
You don't support the $1 Trillion increase in debt that this war has caused (perhaps even more than that, by some measures), do you? This debt is accruing at a rate of roughly $45 Billion/year. That is roughly $400/year in interest alone for every American family. Suze Ormann talks about saving hundreds of dollars a year by paying off credit card debt, but the federal government has added $400/year to the debt burden of every American family. This is before we even talk about any plan to start paying that money off- if we add $300 to that amount, we can pay it off in about 25 years, assuming we don't start any new wars.
Let's see your bill.
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RE: Why I Fear McCain - 8/28/2008 6:35:00 PM
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Thessa
Posts: 811
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Evangel70
Reasons I fear a McCain administration:
1. Age - If elected McCain will be 72 when taking office. As the leader of the free world, one should be sharp, alert, and able to anticipate potential problems/issues.
Did you know that Biden is 65? Thats not much younger than McCain is. If Obama becomes President and gets hurt then Biden will be running this Country. Are you saying that Biden is too old as well?
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RE: Why I Fear McCain - 8/28/2008 7:58:30 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1949
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ljmac
Let's see your bill.
It comes in the form of higher taxes in the future. Being a New York resident, I probably pay a higher tax rate than you. And that will only have to increase in the future.
People talk about the tax burden, but in reality, we need to work on relieving the debt burden. That means raising taxes to pay this debt down.
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RE: Why I Fear McCain - 8/28/2008 8:29:17 PM
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ManimalX
Posts: 1212
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
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Thank God for a man like George Bush who had the courage to do what nobody else would. The Hussein regime was an evil regime. I, for one, think that every American life ended, given voluntarily, was worth it. Several thousand brave soldiers have helped eliminate the torture chambers, rape rooms, death squads, and WMD threat of Saddam Hussein. Several thousand brave soldiers stood up against evil and defeated it. I am proud of our country, a country that will go to war to defeat evil. I wish we could do more in other places, but that will likely never happen so long as the cowardly left are allowed to poison the public mind.
Secondly, the US is preparing to turn Anbar Province, one of the most violent areas in Iraq, completely over to Iraqi forces as early as Monday. Yet another step along the path of victory we are treading. I hope you will all join me in praying for the Iraqi forces, that they will be able to uphold law and order, and that they will have the skill and supernatural protection to defeat any attempts to undermine the US withdrawl from the area. Confusion in the enemy camps, both foreign and domestic!
_____________________________
"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed." - 2nd Peter 3:10
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RE: Why I Fear McCain - 8/28/2008 9:02:14 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1949
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
Thank God for a man like George Bush who had the courage to do what nobody else would. The Hussein regime was an evil regime. I, for one, think that every American life ended, given voluntarily, was worth it. Several thousand brave soldiers have helped eliminate the torture chambers, rape rooms, death squads, and WMD threat of Saddam Hussein. Several thousand brave soldiers stood up against evil and defeated it.
First off, it was on the order of a couple hundred thousand that have rotated through, not a mere several thousand. Currently, there are 144,000 stationed there. Let's respect the troops by getting the numbers right.
quote:
I am proud of our country, a country that will go to war to defeat evil.
I am proud of our country, too. I am proud of the fact that we defeated the Russians without firing a single bullet (although a military build-up, which was still cheaper than the Iraq war, was required. Funny how large peacetime militaries are less expensive than smaller wartime ones.)
I am not proud of our President and our leaders. I am convinced my brother in High School would do a far better job of running and defending the country than our current President. Heck, I'm even convinced that Jimmy Carter or Richard Nixon could run the country better...
quote:
I wish we could do more in other places, but that will likely never happen so long as the cowardly left are allowed to poison the public mind.
First off, I'd say we're more cheap than cowardly. We're those losers who won't drag race you at the stoplight, because we want to save gas and money. Those nuts who didn't need a subprime mortgage to buy their house. Those oddballs who pay off their credit cards every month and don't need a payday loan so we can visit the racetrack. Yeah, I guess that makes us cowards, too- we can't afford to gamble or engage in stupid car races. We're too busy making sure our kids have a future and that our creditors (if any) aren't losing sleep.
People like us care about the troops, but we also care about deficits- we pay off our debts, and we are sick and tired of the government borrowing on our behalf- as it has done for the past seven years. $1 Trillion is enough to provide about 20 million in-state college educations. It's also enough to build 300 nuclear plants- enough to energy to replace everything we import from the middle east. There's plenty of better uses that we could have put that $1 Trillion to besides cruise missiles and various machinery that can be destroyed by IEDs. $1 Trillion could have helped a lot more people in Zimbabwe or Darfur, as well, than in Iraq.
If none of this fazes you, consider this: it's $1 Trillion we're borrowing on behalf of our children. If we had to borrow that money, I'd rather have spent it on the energy infrastructure to make all middle-eastern dictators irrelevent, rather than have spent it to remove only one.
< Message edited by blessedinnyc -- 8/28/2008 9:16:16 PM >
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RE: Why I Fear McCain - 8/28/2008 11:36:58 PM
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ManimalX
Posts: 1212
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
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Just a caveat: the "thousands" I was referring to are the 4,000+ US soldiers who have given their lives for a noble cause. Sorry i didn't specify that better.
As far as being "frugal"... that really isn't a Democrat/Republican thing. That is just wise. I don't like large debts either, but sometimes the guy who carries the big stick has to actually swing it. My opinion is that Saddam's noggin was an excellent recipient of that swing, and the monetary cost was worth it.
_____________________________
"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed." - 2nd Peter 3:10
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RE: Why I Fear McCain - 8/29/2008 9:19:45 AM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1949
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
Just a caveat: the "thousands" I was referring to are the 4,000+ US soldiers who have given their lives for a noble cause. Sorry i didn't specify that better.
Fair enough.
quote:
As far as being "frugal"... that really isn't a Democrat/Republican thing. That is just wise.
Although I agree that either Dems or Repubs can be frugal, I would just note that sometime in the past 25 years, the neoconservatives took over the Republican party from the fiscal conservatives. Until Republicans can act like fiscal conservatives again, the best party at balancing the budget is probably the Democrats.
quote:
I don't like large debts either, but sometimes the guy who carries the big stick has to actually swing it.
That's fine, but let's balance the budget when we swing it. Balancing the budget can entail tax hikes or cuts to other services if we must. If you are going to make the claim that the best way to increase tax revenues is to reduce taxes, please explain where you believe the Laffer Curve hits its zenith. (I believe peak tax revenue occurs at about 50-60%, which is a lower tax rate than most economists think it peaks at. Still it's higher than 35%)
quote:
My opinion is that Saddam's noggin was an excellent recipient of that swing, and the monetary cost was worth it.
The irony here is that if we had just sat on our hands, Saddam would have likely been overthrown by his own people by now.
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RE: Why I Fear McCain - 8/29/2008 9:31:53 AM
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huskarine
Posts: 444
Joined: 7/31/2008
From: Wheaton, IL
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
quote:
My opinion is that Saddam's noggin was an excellent recipient of that swing, and the monetary cost was worth it.
The irony here is that if we had just sat on our hands, Saddam would have likely been overthrown by his own people by now.
doubt that...the iraqis were too scared to mess with him to the point that his cronies were apparent yes-men...
you can disagree with the war all you want, but in the end, the people of Iraq THANK US for ridding him and bringing him to justice.
all of this is said out of respect of course...
Julius, where in the UK are you at...
Paul (DC)
_____________________________
"Success is equated with excess/the ambition for excess wrecks us/as the top of the mind becomes the bottom line/when success is equated with excess" -Switchfoot "American Dream"
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RE: Why I Fear McCain - 8/29/2008 9:55:06 AM
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