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Obama's Socialist Education Policy - 10/2/2008 3:07:54 PM
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TheosCentric
Posts: 1958
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http://www.barackobama.com/issues/education/
I do have issues with Obama on other issues, such as abortion, but I'm really troubled by his education policy as well.
Is anyone else as troubled by as I am.
For instance, from the link above:
Early Childhood Education
* Zero to Five Plan: The Obama-Biden comprehensive "Zero to Five" plan will provide critical support to young children and their parents. Unlike other early childhood education plans, the Obama-Biden plan places key emphasis at early care and education for infants, which is essential for children to be ready to enter kindergarten. Obama and Biden will create Early Learning Challenge Grants to promote state "zero to five" efforts and help states move toward voluntary, universal pre-school.
* Expand Early Head Start and Head Start: Obama and Biden will quadruple Early Head Start, increase Head Start funding and improve quality for both.
* Affordable, High-Quality Child Care: Obama and Biden will also provide affordable and high-quality child care to ease the burden on working families.
I don't see the problem with education as being more education. The problem is with single-parent homes, both those created by no-fault divorce, and those from non-existent fathers. As well as the problem exists with reliance on government programs to begin with.
As a new homeschool parent, what types of support would Obama offer for homeschool parents. I have not heard one. At least Ron Paul and Bob Barr are all for homeschooling.
Can't exactly find where McCain stands on homeschooling, but at least he's not for so much gov't interference in education.
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"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center
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RE: Obama's Socialist Education Policy - 10/2/2008 3:11:33 PM
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Zhi
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He's only socialist about the education of YOUR kids. HIS kids go to a school with a $20k tuition price tag. But, don't even THINK about asking for vouchers so your kids have a fighting chance of keeping up with his. *eyeroll*
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RE: Obama's Socialist Education Policy - 10/2/2008 3:28:04 PM
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TheosCentric
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Zhi
He's only socialist about the education of YOUR kids. HIS kids go to a school with a $20k tuition price tag. But, don't even THINK about asking for vouchers so your kids have a fighting chance of keeping up with his. *eyeroll*
Yep, here's a post on that: http://www.appeal-democrat.com/articles/obama_69378___article.html/schools_education.html
We looked at putting our 5 yo in private school, 'cause I would get half-price tuition since my job is affiliated with the school.
It was still too pricey.
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center
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RE: Obama's Socialist Education Policy - 10/2/2008 3:43:35 PM
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Jenny-Fair
Posts: 6273
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quote:
As a new homeschool parent, what types of support would Obama offer for homeschool parents. I have not heard one I don't want Obama's interference in homeschooling in ANY way, even if it's called 'support'. No thanks, the gov't can just leave my little homeschool alone!
I seriously disagree with pushing 'education' prior to the current ages of compulsory attendance (in my state, that is age 8). The 'preschool effect' wears off by 3rd grade, so it's really just glorified daycare, and a further separation of kids from their parents. In addition, I think it encourages the childhood stress that we are seeing now that is relatively new. The push to succeed instead of letting kids be kids.
Additionally, since kids develop at different rates, you are going to end up with lots of little boys, and some girls, labelled as having problems, and stuck with that label (you can't get your kid off that track!) because they simply are not developmentally ready for many 'educational' activities.
And, once it has been offered for a while, it will become compulsory, which I am definitely against.
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Tony: Ziva, did you kill Houdini?
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RE: Obama's Socialist Education Policy - 10/2/2008 4:49:18 PM
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Peter_Gunn
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Really, people!  Get a grip! How do you expect your kids to be indoctrinated by the left if you don't turn them over right away?
Sheesh!
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RE: Obama's Socialist Education Policy - 10/2/2008 5:02:31 PM
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HighPlainsDrifter
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If G-d blesses I and my wife with children at some point, we will do our level best to keep them out of a public school, and especially so if it's an Obama school.
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RE: Obama's Socialist Education Policy - 10/2/2008 6:44:07 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2909
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From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TheosCentric
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/education/
I do have issues with Obama on other issues, such as abortion, but I'm really troubled by his education policy as well.
Is anyone else as troubled by as I am.
For instance, from the link above:
Early Childhood Education
* Zero to Five Plan: The Obama-Biden comprehensive "Zero to Five" plan will provide critical support to young children and their parents. Unlike other early childhood education plans, the Obama-Biden plan places key emphasis at early care and education for infants, which is essential for children to be ready to enter kindergarten. Obama and Biden will create Early Learning Challenge Grants to promote state "zero to five" efforts and help states move toward voluntary, universal pre-school.
* Expand Early Head Start and Head Start: Obama and Biden will quadruple Early Head Start, increase Head Start funding and improve quality for both.
* Affordable, High-Quality Child Care: Obama and Biden will also provide affordable and high-quality child care to ease the burden on working families.
He's not completely out to lunch here. The founders of "Baby College" in NYC have had good results with their low-income students. Their first class of 3rd graders outscored the average NYC school on the state standardized test by a fairly high margin (95% above or at grade level) despite being from a normally underperforming socio-economic sector.
There are other studies that buttress the idea that early childhood education can radically improve the performance of the inner city schools that are increasingly being left behind by No Child Left Behind.
The idea here is to teach the kids from lower-performing socio-economic strata the same skills that middle and upper class families teach their kids without even knowing it. It seems to be working.
Not much else seems to be working. Might be worth a shot.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Obama's Socialist Education Policy - 10/2/2008 6:46:42 PM
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GroupW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jenny-Fair
I seriously disagree with pushing 'education' prior to the current ages of compulsory attendance (in my state, that is age 8). The 'preschool effect' wears off by 3rd grade
Although this is strongly dependent upon which segment of society we're talking about. For the average student , possibly. For the low-income, low-education families the results as far as I know don't support that statement.
There are other studies that show that skill deficiencies that still exist at grade 3 increasingly tend to carry into the higher grades and that the ability to succeed educationally is dependent upon successful early childhood learning. Skills acquired before the age of approximately 6 are particularly important.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Obama's Socialist Education Policy - 10/2/2008 6:47:48 PM
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Jenny-Fair
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Then they should be working with FAMILIES, not taking kids AWAY from their families and REPLACING them. Goverment as Parent is almost never a good idea. There is more at stake than academics.
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Tony: Ziva, did you kill Houdini?
Ziva: It is possible. I do not remember all their names.
My Blog
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RE: Obama's Socialist Education Policy - 10/2/2008 6:51:24 PM
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GroupW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jenny-Fair
Then they should be working with FAMILIES, not taking kids AWAY from their families and REPLACING them. Goverment as Parent is almost never a good idea. There is more at stake than academics.
I don't see those proposals as taking kids away from their families. Not all parents will be successful homeschoolers (us, for example) and not all families can have one parent stay at home to teach. In fact, the kids most at risk for educational failure only have one active parent period. For these types of households, a plan like this would seem to make sense.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Obama's Socialist Education Policy - 10/2/2008 6:53:32 PM
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Jenny-Fair
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It isn't about homeschooling. Kids do not need academics before age five in order to succeed.
And, hello, but 'universal' means 'universal' not 'for low-income, single-parent households'. Universal preschool is EVERYONE in preschool, and the age just keeps getting lower and lower.
_____________________________
Tony: Ziva, did you kill Houdini?
Ziva: It is possible. I do not remember all their names.
My Blog
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RE: Obama's Socialist Education Policy - 10/2/2008 7:02:29 PM
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GroupW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jenny-Fair
It isn't about homeschooling. Kids do not need academics before age five in order to succeed.
For middle and upper class America, I agree with you.
However, if you really want to impact the inner city and equalize educational opportunities (by raising the lower end of the spectrum rather than lowering the overall bar), then there is a population of kids that are going to need some early childhood intervention.
Here's the key fact that I think you might be missing - there are things that middle income families naturally teach their kids - how to create structure, how to value reading & education, the necessity of some personal discipline & good study habits. Kids lean this by observing how their parents function. In more dysfunctional environments, kids don't learn all of these skills. Some mechanism for bringing this type of learning has to be done if these kids are to get a fair shot at doing better than their parents did.
Baby College for example works WITH parents to jointly and in partnership deal with some of these issues during early childhood. It's not about taking parents out of the process. It's giving kids the skills their parents should be able to help teach but for whatever reason can't.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Obama's Socialist Education Policy - 10/2/2008 7:05:13 PM
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GroupW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jenny-Fair
And, hello, but 'universal' means 'universal' not 'for low-income, single-parent households'. Universal preschool is EVERYONE in preschool, and the age just keeps getting lower and lower.
Read the proposed policy statement again - it's for "voluntary, universal" early childhood education.
In this case, universal means universally available, not universally mandated.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Obama's Socialist Education Policy - 10/2/2008 7:14:18 PM
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Jenny-Fair
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The Baby College is a series of workshops FOR PARENTS, which is a totally different thing than government-run 'care and education for infants' which is what the proposal proposes.
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Tony: Ziva, did you kill Houdini?
Ziva: It is possible. I do not remember all their names.
My Blog
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RE: Obama's Socialist Education Policy - 10/2/2008 7:20:12 PM
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GroupW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jenny-Fair
The Baby College is a series of workshops FOR PARENTS, which is a totally different thing than government-run 'care and education for infants' which is what the proposal proposes.
Actually, not really. Baby College is just the first phase of a more comprehensive early childhood education program. The people that participate in Baby College get slots in the associated early childhood education program and the related elementary school.
There's more to that program than meets the eye. The original founders of Baby College have expanded their program to include early childhood education and regular academic schooling at the elementary level. They are currently outperforming vs their expected level of performance by a very wide margin.
The original idea of Baby College was to focus on a 24-square block of Harlem and see what could be done. The program starts with Baby College but actually encompasses k-12 educational levels as well. Anyone in that 24 block service area is eligible, but attendees of Baby College get first shot at class room openings.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Obama's Socialist Education Policy - 10/2/2008 7:27:14 PM
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GroupW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jenny-Fair
The Baby College is a series of workshops FOR PARENTS, which is a totally different thing than government-run 'care and education for infants' which is what the proposal proposes.
No, it's really the same thing. Primary issues at the health & welfare level for kids (nutrition, proper child care) are essential for children's mental development. Providing largely single-parent households with some assistance in this regard is an unfortunately necessary part of the program. The key cornerstone here is early childhood education. Just like the free & reduced lunch program in today's schools, however, we know that kids don't learn when they're hungry or stressed. You need to take care of both things to be successful.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Obama's Socialist Education Policy - 10/2/2008 7:32:41 PM
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Jenny-Fair
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quote:
Primary issues at the health & welfare level for kids (nutrition, proper child care) are essential for children's mental development. Providing largely single-parent households with some assistance in this regard is an unfortunately necessary part of the program.
These things are already being addressed by other programs (food stamps, child care subsidies). We do not need more government programs for this.
This family, btw, lives far below the 'poverty line'. I am not a middle or upper class mother who doesn't understand what life is really like.
_____________________________
Tony: Ziva, did you kill Houdini?
Ziva: It is possible. I do not remember all their names.
My Blog
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RE: Obama's Socialist Education Policy - 10/3/2008 7:21:53 AM
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TheosCentric
Posts: 1958
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
quote:
ORIGINAL: TheosCentric
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/education/
I do have issues with Obama on other issues, such as abortion, but I'm really troubled by his education policy as well.
Is anyone else as troubled by as I am.
For instance, from the link above:
Early Childhood Education
* Zero to Five Plan: The Obama-Biden comprehensive "Zero to Five" plan will provide critical support to young children and their parents. Unlike other early childhood education plans, the Obama-Biden plan places key emphasis at early care and education for infants, which is essential for children to be ready to enter kindergarten. Obama and Biden will create Early Learning Challenge Grants to promote state "zero to five" efforts and help states move toward voluntary, universal pre-school.
* Expand Early Head Start and Head Start: Obama and Biden will quadruple Early Head Start, increase Head Start funding and improve quality for both.
* Affordable, High-Quality Child Care: Obama and Biden will also provide affordable and high-quality child care to ease the burden on working families.
He's not completely out to lunch here. The founders of "Baby College" in NYC have had good results with their low-income students. Their first class of 3rd graders outscored the average NYC school on the state standardized test by a fairly high margin (95% above or at grade level) despite being from a normally underperforming socio-economic sector.
There are other studies that buttress the idea that early childhood education can radically improve the performance of the inner city schools that are increasingly being left behind by No Child Left Behind.
The idea here is to teach the kids from lower-performing socio-economic strata the same skills that middle and upper class families teach their kids without even knowing it. It seems to be working.
Not much else seems to be working. Might be worth a shot.
Do you believe in that much of a socialist ideal?
I sincerely hope not. First of all, I do not believe in "No Child Left Behind" either. I think it has been a failure and total waste of time.
Second, the Democrats have created a dependency on the government by the lower income.
I've been there. I've sat there for hours on end waiting for Medicare paperwork to be processed along with all these other people who don't have jobs or jobs with wages less than mine.
I've talked to a few of them. They say, "Why do better, when the government gives free handouts?". And they don't think the gov't does enough. It's like drugs and that's what Obama wants to provide more of. More "drugs" in the form of more government education.
Thankfully, I've made the decision not to go through that anymore. We struggle, but God provides. I wish I could tell everyone of those people who wait every day for more government money, that they can do better than what the government provides, but it would be useless for most of them, I'm sure.
I know there are some who really cannot help their circumstances, but for most, I believe they can.
I say, no thank you to Obama's education policy. It can go in the circular file.
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center
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RE: Obama's Socialist Education Policy - 10/3/2008 7:23:17 AM
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TheosCentric
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
quote:
the Obama-Biden plan places key emphasis at early care and education for infants, which is essential for children to be ready to enter kindergarten.
That's what we call "Mommy" in this family.
This is one of Obama's positions that creeps me out. I can see making something 'universally available', and I can see where in some situations (abuse and neglect) daycare could be better for a baby, though still not ideal. It's the push that bothers me. The implication that it's "educational daycare" itself that is what's important. 'Cause my kids would so not have done better at daycare, and we are a low-income family, too. He may not intend it that way but it could be easily construed as such, and he may be opening the way for people even more radical to insist that infants and small children *must* be in some kind of "academic" program.
Exactly my point. Thank you.
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center
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RE: Obama's Socialist Education Policy - 10/3/2008 9:19:30 AM
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kernsfamily
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Education and schools is a STATE & LOCAL issue...
Obama has no business DICTATING anything to our schools.
Our schools here are doing JUST FINE, thanks....and, we don't need any more interference from Washington.
but, with the Obama crowd, the Federal Government knows best....better than you, better than your school board, better than your teachers...etc..etc...
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Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: Obama's Socialist Education Policy - 10/3/2008 11:12:11 AM
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GroupW
Posts: 2909
Joined: 11/16/2007
From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TheosCentric
Do you believe in that much of a socialist ideal?
No, I just don't think you read the proposal closely enough. The gist of it is simply to provide funds for STATE efforts on universal, VOLUNTARY programs.
This is no different than any number of a million other federal programs that provide funds for state-administered initiatives.
One thing I do know - whatever we''re doing now isn't working. Why not try something like the founders of the Baby College have done. They seem to having some success. Why not try to fund it and see what can be done? The alternative is to continue to flounder along unsuccessfully and keep trying the same things that aren't working.
Kerns-
I'm glad your schools are fine. Most inner city and poor rural schools are not. We can not continue to let a segment of the population continue to fall behind like we've done in the inner city.
I don't think this is a case of the Federal Government knowing more than anyone. I think this is a case of someone knowing what works - in this case early childhood education - and seeking to make sure that it gets some funding.
Fairly simple, really.
FYI - for some good reading on this, consider finding some of the research by a lady named Ruby Paine. Really good stuff.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Obama's Socialist Education Policy - 10/3/2008 11:19:02 AM
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StephK
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Why not let the states and local governments decide if they want to implement this or not. Warehousing babies in state schools is not a good thing. Babies and young children need more one on one care for attachment purposes. The best providers for that care comes from the parents. Welfare removed fathers from poor families now the state wants to remove the mothers.
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Stephanie
The heart of the wise inclines to the right but the heart of the fool to the left.
Even as he walks along the road, the fool lacks sense and shows everyone how stupid he is. ~ Ecc. 10:2-3
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