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RE: Obama's Socialist Education Policy - 10/3/2008 3:16:35 PM
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Zhi
Posts: 1443
Joined: 7/31/2007
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quote:
1) Teacher pay. How do you get the best math teachers at $40k a year when anyone halfway decent at math can get an engineering or analysts' job at 80k or more? My wife works as hard as I do for 20% of the money.
My mom teaches math. I'm an engineer. She makes quite a bit less than I do annually, but she also gets 25% of the year off (summer vacation), and she lives in an area where cost of living is far lower than mine is (and there's no way I could get an engineering job there).
Otherwise I agree with you.
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The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: Obama's Socialist Education Policy - 10/3/2008 3:36:20 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2909
Joined: 11/16/2007
From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Zhi
quote:
1) Teacher pay. How do you get the best math teachers at $40k a year when anyone halfway decent at math can get an engineering or analysts' job at 80k or more? My wife works as hard as I do for 20% of the money.
My mom teaches math. I'm an engineer. She makes quite a bit less than I do annually, but she also gets 25% of the year off (summer vacation), and she lives in an area where cost of living is far lower than mine is (and there's no way I could get an engineering job there).
Otherwise I agree with you.
Once you account for the fact that teachers have to work a few extra days in the summer on the beginning and ends of the year, it works out to about 12 weeks off out of 52. If you then back off of that the 3 weeks off that most professionals get in vacation time, it works out to about 9 weeks additional time off or about 17% more time off than a non-teaching professional. So they give up about 50% of the pay for 17% less work. Add to that, most teachers I know work as much or more than most professionals during the school year.
Even after you account for the time off (which many teachers at least early in their careers need to use for getting masters degrees), they remain underpaid given that they are taking a lot of responsibility for our most precious resource.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Obama's Socialist Education Policy - 10/3/2008 3:42:20 PM
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Zhi
Posts: 1443
Joined: 7/31/2007
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It's also not unusual for an engineer to work 60 hour weeks on salary (so they aren't compensated for more than 40 of those hours) *shrug*
But, I would agree that teachers probably deserve more than they get in most places. And "administrators" probably deserve less, since they make 2-3x what the teachers do.
_____________________________
The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: Obama's Socialist Education Policy - 10/3/2008 4:09:46 PM
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relady
Posts: 1277
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
Status: online
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Then the government should do nothing and let the less fortunate fend for themselves? That's not a country I want to live in. Me either, W.
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No Child Left Behind left a LOT of children behind! Just because you get shoved into the next grade doesn't mean you belong there. The whole thing is sad. I'd be open to other ideas. No Child Left Behind is a perfect example of what happens when the government institutes a program but doesn't fund it. Head Start, a very successful program, is a good example of what happens when you set up a program and then fund it for success.
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My heavens there are some ignorant people out there. Yes, there are. But that's not entirely the fault of our educational system. My son got a very good education in our public school system. I have family members who went to decent public schools and came out very ill-informed on all manner of subject. But I can tell you it wasn't because they weren't taught -- at some point a child has to want to learn and if they don't...they don't learn.
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Federal government is too far removed from the problem to effectively provide a solution. True, if you're talking about micromanagement. However, they can-- and have -- provide funds that will allow states to implement and offer these programs. As long as it remains voluntary, I have no issue whatever with it.
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2) Parental involvement. Moreso than even homework, parental involvement in your kids education is a much bigger determinant of success. Teachers around here will tell you this is THE biggest determinant. They tell me that their most successful students are the ones whose parents are involved and interested in their education.
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I know that certainly was "more knowledgeable" about "current events", politics and such things in my teens and 20s than my parents EVER were.... As was I. Although I come from a family interested in politics. Unfortunately most of my family read only things that support their current view (conservative).
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The people interviewed for Jay Walking are generally 20-30 somethings. Yes, but you have no idea how many people he has to interview before he finds the two or three totally clueless ones he puts on the show.
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RE: Obama's Socialist Education Policy - 10/3/2008 5:13:24 PM
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kernsfamily
Posts: 1350
Joined: 4/26/2006
From: Dallas (originally Detroit)
Status: offline
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quote:
quote:
I know that certainly was "more knowledgeable" about "current events", politics and such things in my teens and 20s than my parents EVER were....
As was I. Although I come from a family interested in politics. Unfortunately most of my family read only things that support their current view (conservative).
my father got MOST of his "political information" from a magazine called "Solidarity".....the official magazine of the UAW (he was a factory worker for GM)....a magazine whose "views" would make Obama look somewhat "conservative"....
I would HATE seeing that thing in the mail....with all the lies and deception in it! UGH!
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: Obama's Socialist Education Policy - 10/3/2008 5:19:24 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2909
Joined: 11/16/2007
From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kernsfamily
quote:
quote:
I know that certainly was "more knowledgeable" about "current events", politics and such things in my teens and 20s than my parents EVER were....
As was I. Although I come from a family interested in politics. Unfortunately most of my family read only things that support their current view (conservative).
my father got MOST of his "political information" from a magazine called "Solidarity".....the official magazine of the UAW (he was a factory worker for GM)....a magazine whose "views" would make Obama look somewhat "conservative"....
I would HATE seeing that thing in the mail....with all the lies and deception in it! UGH!
I was raised in the Rust Belt myself & understand that completely.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Obama's Socialist Education Policy - 10/4/2008 12:14:58 AM
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ljmac
Posts: 1375
Joined: 11/20/2006
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BHO sends his kids to an elite private school while cutting off opportunities for poor kids to escape rotten government schools.
Like all good Democrats, BHO opposes the use of school vouchers. Kids in rotten government school systems are denied even the opportunity to go to a better school. The children who suffer the most are poor black children left trapped in terrible schools. Orval Faubus would be proud.
BHO's kids go to a snobby, elitist school where tuition for each of them is around $20,000 a year. His brother lives in a shack in a disease and crime filled slum.
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RE: Obama's Socialist Education Policy - 10/4/2008 12:21:49 AM
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wing2000
Posts: 1029
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
I don't see the problem with education as being more education. The problem is with single-parent homes, both those created by no-fault divorce, and those from non-existent fathers. As well as the problem exists with reliance on government programs to begin with.
What are you suggesting here?
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