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[Poll]
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What role should the Church play in the Election?
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| Churches should be allowed to tell Congregants who to vote for. |
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| Churches should not be allowed to tell Congregants who to vote for. |
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| Undecided |
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Total Votes : 38
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(last vote on : 10/17/2008 11:10:50 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: What role should the Church play in the Election? - 10/5/2008 3:15:16 AM
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zamdad
Posts: 1700
Joined: 4/8/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
Campbe33 has three posts as I read this. Then I think about the thread about the Obama operatives. I get to the third post by Campbe33, and here it is.
Could you please explain this remark? I take it as you saying I am some sort of Obama Operative. I am no one's Operative except God's. If you think I'm some sort of Obama Operative then please do yourself a favor and don't read or respond to anything in my post.
Sorry. I've been in this community for too long, perhaps. There is another thread about Obama operatives. Some of the opinions you expressed right off the get go made it sound like your in the Obama camp since this folder is on the elections.
But, I've read your other posts after my post and I see that, with the exception of at leat one issue, we're probably on the same page. Just coming at the issues from different life experience.
_____________________________
The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: What role should the Church play in the Election? - 10/5/2008 8:25:40 AM
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ta_mosquito
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RE: What role should the Church play in the Election? - 10/5/2008 8:48:53 AM
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Dubya
Posts: 1019
Joined: 10/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
quote:
Why? They are not married. They cannot produce children.
They're not married because we have voted in most states against same sex marriage. I myself don't believe in same sex marriage. They may not be able to have children physically together, but they may have children from previous relationships and marriages. They can also adopt in some places. What do you think Jesus would do about these helpless children who have no choice? You think he'd condemn them to Hell?
No, Jesus would not condemn the children to Hell. But he certainly would NOT suggest they should be raised by perverts.
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RE: What role should the Church play in the Election? - 10/5/2008 12:31:28 PM
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stampinlady
Posts: 1523
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Northern IL
Status: online
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quote:
agree. Pastors should not endorse political parties or specific candidates.
I agree.
_____________________________
Deb
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RE: What role should the Church play in the Election? - 10/5/2008 12:58:22 PM
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continuehope
Posts: 8
Joined: 10/5/2008
Status: offline
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I as a pastor have right to endorse a candidate just like every other american, that is what people like John Mcain fought for. I also believe no one should tell anyone else how to vote that would be completely out of line. It doesnt stop me from doing everything in my power to tell everyone possible the biblical values and how each candidate has publically stated they believe concerning those values
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RE: What role should the Church play in the Election? - 10/5/2008 1:29:44 PM
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WormHeart
Posts: 292
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Denmark - pride of Scandinavia
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
Pastors should have the right to endorse candidates from the pulpit...it is still america...correct?
quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
First, John_O: You da man! You nailed it dead on.
Second: Pastors should be allowed to endorse whoever they want, from the pulpit. The tax-exempt status code is nothing but the world trying to silence the Church. In my opinion it is absolutely wrong to prohibit churches from participating in politics.
Good greif – could we get a little less victim-mentality here?
You already got that right. Every pastor in the US can make the decision to endorse candidates from the pulpit – it just carries a consequence.
It’s about MONEY!
If the church truly felt it was the right thing to do – knock yourself out.
But don’t cry foul because the godless, secular, sinful government take away the tax-exempt status. Why would you have the godless, secular, sinful government to support the church anyway?
You think the early churches was tax-exempt under the romans?
It’s all about greed.
WormHeart
_____________________________
Praise King and Country with might
Bless every Dane at heart
For serving with no fright
The Viking kingdom for Danes is true
With fields and waving beeches
By a sea so blue
National Anthem of Denmark
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RE: What role should the Church play in the Election? - 10/5/2008 1:35:48 PM
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WormHeart
Posts: 292
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Denmark - pride of Scandinavia
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
Christians should be represented in our government. We should be an influence on government.
We tried that for a long time in Europe.
It leads to interesting places.
One of the fundamental tenets of a democracy is that you can disagree with a politican on an issue and vote against (or at least not for him).
Once faith enter politics, this becomes muddled.
You are now free to be against Bush, Obama, Clinton or Mccain. It is just politicians.
Once one of them becomes the one that speak for God, you can no longer vote against them in good conscience, because it would be a vote against God.
Every two-bit politican realize the power of being veiwed as the one God wants to be the leader - that is why they are so eager to pamper to the church.
WormHeart
_____________________________
Praise King and Country with might
Bless every Dane at heart
For serving with no fright
The Viking kingdom for Danes is true
With fields and waving beeches
By a sea so blue
National Anthem of Denmark
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RE: What role should the Church play in the Election? - 10/5/2008 1:44:54 PM
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Dubya
Posts: 1019
Joined: 10/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WormHeart
You think the early churches was tax-exempt under the romans?
It’s all about greed.
WormHeart
Actually, yes I do. Neither churches nor any other organization were taxed under the Romans. Only individuals.
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RE: What role should the Church play in the Election? - 10/5/2008 1:49:41 PM
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WormHeart
Posts: 292
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Denmark - pride of Scandinavia
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dubya
Actually, yes I do. Neither churches nor any other organization were taxed under the Romans. Only individuals.
And were those individuals able to deduct their contributions to churches from that individual tax?
WormHeart
_____________________________
Praise King and Country with might
Bless every Dane at heart
For serving with no fright
The Viking kingdom for Danes is true
With fields and waving beeches
By a sea so blue
National Anthem of Denmark
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RE: What role should the Church play in the Election? - 10/5/2008 1:55:35 PM
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Dubya
Posts: 1019
Joined: 10/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WormHeart
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dubya
Actually, yes I do. Neither churches nor any other organization were taxed under the Romans. Only individuals.
And were those individuals able to deduct their contributions to churches from that individual tax?
WormHeart
Changing your argument , are you?
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RE: What role should the Church play in the Election? - 10/5/2008 2:04:44 PM
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WormHeart
Posts: 292
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Denmark - pride of Scandinavia
Status: offline
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No, actually not.
There were no special status for churches back then, right?
That was one small part of the argument.
The main point is, that if you want the backing of the government, you follow their rules. Everyone is free to choose.
We have this exact argument in my own community, Forn Sidr, a pagan faith-community of 600 members in Denmark.
We have gotten tax-exempt status some years ago, although I voted against. And lo and behold - next time we had an assembly to decide on our rules and stances, it was mentioned that we had to consider that a given change could cause us to loose that status.
If we are even making that argument, we are on a slippery slope.
Communities should make decisions out from their stance - not out from economic issues.
On this we agree?
WormHeart
_____________________________
Praise King and Country with might
Bless every Dane at heart
For serving with no fright
The Viking kingdom for Danes is true
With fields and waving beeches
By a sea so blue
National Anthem of Denmark
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RE: What role should the Church play in the Election? - 10/5/2008 2:07:01 PM
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Dubya
Posts: 1019
Joined: 10/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WormHeart
Communities should make decisions out from their stance - not out from economic issues.
On this we agree?
WormHeart
On that, we agree!
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RE: What role should the Church play in the Election? - 10/5/2008 2:10:30 PM
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rlj
Posts: 2198
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
Good greif – could we get a little less victim-mentality here?
You already got that right. Every pastor in the US can make the decision to endorse candidates from the pulpit – it just carries a consequence.
It’s about MONEY!
If the church truly felt it was the right thing to do – knock yourself out.
But don’t cry foul because the godless, secular, sinful government take away the tax-exempt status. Why would you have the godless, secular, sinful government to support the church anyway?
Sadly it took an atheist to get this right. Pastor's and churches have the right to endorse anyone they want. The cost is their 501(c)3 status. It is more than just a tax break though this will impact people's ability to write off donations.
_____________________________
-Roger
This is who I'm voting for. He is from the same party I voted for last time. This is consistent with my belief in the failure of the two party system and my disgust with it.
http://www.baldwin08.com/#
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RE: What role should the Church play in the Election? - 10/5/2008 2:12:56 PM
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Dubya
Posts: 1019
Joined: 10/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
quote:
Good greif – could we get a little less victim-mentality here?
You already got that right. Every pastor in the US can make the decision to endorse candidates from the pulpit – it just carries a consequence.
It’s about MONEY!
If the church truly felt it was the right thing to do – knock yourself out.
But don’t cry foul because the godless, secular, sinful government take away the tax-exempt status. Why would you have the godless, secular, sinful government to support the church anyway?
Sadly it took an atheist to get this right. Pastor's and churches have the right to endorse anyone they want. The cost is their 501(c)3 status. It is more than just a tax break though this will impact people's ability to write off donations.
But unfortunately it is not applied equally.
Election after election, Black churches have had Democrat candidates in the pulpit on Sundays "preaching" their campaign, yet those churches have not lost their 501c3 status.
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RE: What role should the Church play in the Election? - 10/5/2008 2:23:43 PM
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rlj
Posts: 2198
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
But unfortunately it is not applied equally.
Election after election, Black churches have had Democrat candidates in the pulpit on Sundays "preaching" their campaign, yet those churches have not lost their 501c3 status.
Then they should lose it.
_____________________________
-Roger
This is who I'm voting for. He is from the same party I voted for last time. This is consistent with my belief in the failure of the two party system and my disgust with it.
http://www.baldwin08.com/#
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RE: What role should the Church play in the Election? - 10/5/2008 3:14:59 PM
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WormHeart
Posts: 292
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Denmark - pride of Scandinavia
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
Then they should lose it.
Agreed.
WormHeart
_____________________________
Praise King and Country with might
Bless every Dane at heart
For serving with no fright
The Viking kingdom for Danes is true
With fields and waving beeches
By a sea so blue
National Anthem of Denmark
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RE: What role should the Church play in the Election? - 10/5/2008 3:32:15 PM
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AdrianaS
Posts: 1230
Joined: 3/21/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
quote:
ORIGINAL: ladioffaith
They should host polling places if one is needed.
They should encourage their members to register and vote.
AND THAT'S IT!
I am not two years old ... I have a brain in my head, I am capable of researching issues and candidates, and I do not need my pastor or anybody else telling me who to vote for. I'm a big girl and capable of figuring out that one all by myself, thank you very much ...
I second that emotion 
I third that.
Thanks but no thanks for an Official State Church..I already went throu this experience before.
Also thanks but no thanks for christian leaders as late Mr. Farewell, Mr. Pat Robertson or others with similar style..also thanks but no thanks for Fox media, it doesnot represents at all my conservativism. Thanks but nothanks for any pastor making poltics at the pulpit and suggesting especific candidates and etc The exhotations I do receive from church leadership must be in acordance with the word exhortation already in the Bible. Not preferences, exagerations or fabrications f men.
Regarding my pastor and leadership about civil authorities etc they are sure preaching the word of God, whole consel year long as I myself studying it of course,.. and Titus 3, letter comes to my mind now.. the Lord's ways to deal with all of that even when we are surrounded by the world ways etc how to behave not as a men point of view but God's instruction. Plus I do come from the world and was born again at 33, not 3 years old.
I may say it have been hard to obey and not complain about the present leader President choice that is going for 8 years..it seems was heavy embrace by conservative evangelicals in the USA as their candidate..but not because of that he was representing God by his many actions while in power...I do reject all pressures comming from the ones who voted the actual administration, or anyones pressure me to conform with any candidate.
Thanks.
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RE: What role should the Church play in the Election? - 10/5/2008 4:05:47 PM
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Dubya
Posts: 1019
Joined: 10/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WormHeart
quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
Then they should lose it.
Agreed.
WormHeart
Obviously, I agree.
The question is... why haven't they?
It seems to me to be a racial issue. If just one Black church that has blatently and repeatedly abused their 501c3 status would lose it, I guarantee there would be charges of racism and it would probably incite riots as well.
Why are the authorities so cowardly in this regard?
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RE: What role should the Church play in the Election? - 10/5/2008 4:11:07 PM
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HighPlainsDrifter
Posts: 1291
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: The Great Sioux Empire
Status: offline
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Personally, I'd prefer to attend a church that just went ahead and paid taxes, so they wouldn't be fettered by the gangsters at the IRS, and their handlers.
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RE: What role should the Church play in the Election? - 10/5/2008 4:11:21 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5679
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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Well shucks, how about that white Churches get the same ability to instruct their congregation on how to vote as the black Chruches?
I mean is not that what equality is all about?
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: What role should the Church play in the Election? - 10/5/2008 4:12:49 PM
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Dubya
Posts: 1019
Joined: 10/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
Well shucks, how about that white Churches get the same ability to instruct their congregation on how to vote as the black Chruches?
Thanks
RC
Exactly.
It amazes me that the freedom of speech is unlimited everywhere except the church.
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RE: What role should the Church play in the Election? - 10/5/2008 4:24:00 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5679
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dubya
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
Well shucks, how about that white Churches get the same ability to instruct their congregation on how to vote as the black Chruches?
Thanks
RC
Exactly.
It amazes me that the freedom of speech is unlimited everywhere except the church.
I guess it is Affimative Action Religion.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: What role should the Church play in the Election? - 10/5/2008 4:26:22 PM
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JustaChristian
Posts: 49
Joined: 5/20/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
Sadly it took an atheist to get this right. Pastor's and churches have the right to endorse anyone they want. The cost is their 501(c)3 status. It is more than just a tax break though this will impact people's ability to write off donations.
I always struggled myself with taking a tax break when I give to the Church. It always seemed kind of a compromise to do so. But that is just my personal feeling on it. I could not say others should do the same.
I think it would be more scriptural for Churches just to not have tax exempt statuse. Give to Caesar what is Caesars were Jesus' instructions. Early Christians did not get a tax break for giving.
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RE: What role should the Church play in the Election? - 10/5/2008 4:32:09 PM
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continuehope
Posts: 8
Joined: 10/5/2008
Status: offline
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as I bivocational pastor I promise you taxes or money have never influenced one word that came out of my mouth. on the other hand I have made sure the pulpit was a time to preach Jesus and so much more important issues like heaven or hell in eternity must be addressed. I believe the pulpit is Gods time and gurantee if taxes or money ever get in the way of the gospel message SO BE IT!
I do how ever on a personal level vehemently oppose the democratic party in matters concerning Godly principle. I do mention issues pertaining to the message God has given me without any fear of people or government I just think political parties pale in comparison to the importance of preaching Gods word and I believe we have to faithfully preach Christ and Him crucified during that time.
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