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RE: Ectopic Pregnancy - 10/9/2008 4:00:43 PM
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MissInnocent
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Great post Jewels, but shouldn't it be up to the woman to decide whether or not to risk her life? And correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't abortion in the case of mother might die always legal?
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RE: Ectopic Pregnancy - 10/9/2008 4:05:06 PM
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MissInnocent
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PrincessDonna
That is not accurate, IME. Can you give a link? I have had all kinds of ultrasounds, both methods, and they have never seen tubes on any of them. I also know others who have had the same experience. Tubes can be seen with the aid of dye that shows up on regular xray, but I do not know of any other way to see them.
What should I do?
If you have any of these symptoms, go to hospital. You're likely to be referred to an early pregnancy unit (unless the tube has ruptured, in which case you'll go straight to surgery) for an ultrasound examination and a sensitive pregnancy test.
The scan may be done using an intra-vaginal probe as the pregnancy may not show up using an abdominal scan. You might also have a blood hormone test if the scan isn't conclusive.
http://arabiaenglish.babycenter.com/pregnancy/grief/ectopic/
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RE: Ectopic Pregnancy - 10/9/2008 4:10:47 PM
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PrincessDonna
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They are saying they MAY see the pregnancy (aka...the baby). Not the tube. They may see the pregnancy in the vicinity of the tube and clearly not in the womb, but the tube is too small to see definitively on ultrasound.
Thanks for posting that link...it cleared it up for me. 
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RE: Ectopic Pregnancy - 10/9/2008 4:11:36 PM
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MissInnocent
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Donna, I'm also wondering if maybe since no baby was found anywhere as you said in your last post...maybe there was no baby and her HCG level was up for another reason.
"HCG is not only produced when pregnant. Males can have HCG levels high enough to be detected by a home pregnancy test and women can also, when they are NOT pregnant. The HCG can be produced by certain tumors. In pregnancy HCG keeps the corpus luteum around to produce estrogen and progesterone, which are necessary in pregnancy. Also, HCG levels differ from each pregnant woman and the doubling is the most important factor." source: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_does_your_HCG_level_mean
I have heard of men passing pregnancies tests before. I also heard of a woman failing multiple BLOOD tests when she was in fact pregnant.  The body can do strange things.
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RE: Ectopic Pregnancy - 10/9/2008 4:13:10 PM
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PrincessDonna
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It was continually rising over the course of a week. I wonder if her dates were off for some reason and the baby was earlier along than she thought it should be.
Anyway...I don't want to nit-pick this particular case. The reason I brought it up was not to do that, but to say that this kind of thing and the pressure the doctor put on her are part of the reason that I personally would wait before taking any action in those circumstances.
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RE: Ectopic Pregnancy - 10/9/2008 4:19:05 PM
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MissInnocent
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Okay, I guess I misunderstood what I'd read on that site. I didn't mean to nit-pick your cousin's story. It was just an idea that popped into my head, esp. knowing of false pregnancies happening.
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RE: Ectopic Pregnancy - 10/9/2008 4:22:53 PM
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PrincessDonna
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That's okay.
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RE: Ectopic Pregnancy - 10/9/2008 4:27:46 PM
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stellaluna
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PrincessDonna
That is not accurate, IME. Can you give a link? I have had all kinds of ultrasounds, both methods, and they have never seen tubes on any of them. I also know others who have had the same experience. Tubes can be seen with the aid of dye that shows up on regular xray, but I do not know of any other way to see them.
I think a normal tube can't be seen, but a damaged or inflamed tube can be seen.
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RE: Ectopic Pregnancy - 10/9/2008 4:29:42 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MissInnocent
Great post Jewels, but shouldn't it be up to the woman to decide whether or not to risk her life? And correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't abortion in the case of mother might die always legal?
Yes, it should be up to the woman whether or not to risk her own life, but if it becomes illegal to terminate an ectopic prenancy, then she would be FORCED to risk her own life, and it wouldn't be her choice.
As to the second question, yes, I think it was legal, but still frowned upon by the catholic church..and therfore many a woman died...often leaving many children behind them.
Just to clarify..I am very much against abortion, and I do want to see Roe vs. Wade overturned. I don't even believe in it in cases of rape or incest...but in the extreme cases where there HAS to be a choice made between the life of the mother or the life of the child, the mother should be chosen..I think if we go to extremes that I don't even think God would go to, it is no wonder the world will not take our stance seriously...and I know we have to be careful of this..a friend of mine, whom I have long since lost touch with used to babysit this little girl..that little girl's mamma became pregnant with a normal, healthy, baby in the womb pregnancy..the doctor insisted that that baby was going to eventually miscarry(it was NOT dead in the womb at that point), and it would be better for the mom emotionally if he just did an abortion instead, so she went along with it (these were not christians). My friend was heartbroken...I think in that case the doctor's views were hogwash...
< Message edited by OneOfHisJewels -- 10/9/2008 5:10:06 PM >
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RE: Ectopic Pregnancy - 10/9/2008 5:01:48 PM
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clag4christ
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: clag4christ
quote:
Have you discussed any of this with your father? (I know you're an adult, just wondering his take on it.)
No. I have left and cleft (over 9 years ago). My father is not involved in my marital relationship nor the decisions we make within it.
No offense intended. I've been married 36 years to the bride of my youth but I still value my Dad's advice and insight. I wasn't bestowed with instant wisdom when I clove and left.
I didn't say that I was wise immediately when I got married. However I don't trust my father's judgement over my husband's or mine when it comes to marriage issues. I don't believe that my marriage relationship should be discussed with my parents, ever. It's not appropriate.
quote:
Looking forward into the future, if my son in law were pressuring my daughter to risk her life in such a manner, no amount of "leaving and cleaving" would prevent me "interfering" in the strongest possible terms. Martial vows do not give any man the right to put his wife's life at risk.
If she told me on her own and away from her husband, that this is what she truely wanted, then I would accept it and do everything possible to help protect her life within the choice she made.
My husband would never 'pressure' me to put my life at risk. What kind of man would pressure like that? I said that my husband and I agree that it is the right thing for us to do, to wait it out.
Why would she have to 'be away' from her husband for you to believe her that it was a decision that *both* she and her husband had come to and understood the risks invloved?
quote:
My family member's baby was never SEEN. Not in the womb. Not in the tube. Not in the ovary. Not in the abdomen. Never seen. Yet her HCG count was climbing. That combined with the fact that she had tiny twinges of pain and a tiny bit of spotting (in her words) leads me to think...hmmm...what if they were wrong?
Exactly. What if they were wrong...I couldn't live with that...
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RE: Ectopic Pregnancy - 10/9/2008 5:09:24 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
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Who is Kimberly?
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RE: Ectopic Pregnancy - 10/9/2008 5:11:19 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OneOfHisJewels
Who is Kimberly?
Based on her profile, clag4christ.
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RE: Ectopic Pregnancy - 10/9/2008 5:54:57 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
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Ok, well the ladies always called her just Kim, so I was confused.
Sorry about spelling it wrong, Kimberley...My name is spelled R-e-b-e-k-a-h, so I get my name spelled wrong a lot, too. I just assumed Jimbo had made a typo, and since I didn't know who he was talking about, I didn't know whose profile to check.
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Now thank we all our God, with hearts and hands and voices, what wondrous things He's done, in whom the world rejoices.
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RE: Ectopic Pregnancy - 10/9/2008 7:23:12 PM
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flyboy2610
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My sister had a tubal pregnancy. It almost killed her.
I am pro-life, very much so.
I feel that only reason an abortion should be done is to save the life of the mother.
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RE: Ectopic Pregnancy - 10/9/2008 10:13:32 PM
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Sideways
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Kim, I don't think your husband would pressure you to risk your life, but in a hypothetical where a man believe that no abortion is ever right, he might try to exert influence on his wife to not take action to preserve her life.
I'd want to talk to her privately so I knew how she truely felt, not want her husband wanted to hear. And yes, I think there are men out there that are that ... intense about it. Maybe they've read a few miracle stories or some mysterious "third option" which basically amounts to wait and see.
Under those circumstances, when my daughter's life was at stake, it would be one of the only excuses I can see for getting in between her and her husband. An ectopic pregnancy is not a marriage issue, and I can't see how it would be; it's a medical, life and death issue.
ETA: The more I think about it, the more I think that a man is less likely to encourage a woman not to terminate under these circumstances. He might support a wife who decided to do that on her own, but I just don't see a husband trying to encourage a wife not to terminate if she was already inclined to terminate. But there are some pretty hard core men on this issue (and I'm trying very hard to phrase this politely).
I too, have great respect and reverence for the marital relationship. It really would take something this serious butt in when I hadn't been asked for my opinion. But like I said, my daughter's life and health is not a sacred marital issue.
< Message edited by Sideways -- 10/9/2008 10:21:19 PM >
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RE: Ectopic Pregnancy - 10/9/2008 11:52:21 PM
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TammyIsBlessed
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Everyone seems to know someone who almost died from a ruptured ectopic pregnancy - I do too. Does any one know the stats on how many women actually do die?
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RE: Ectopic Pregnancy - 10/9/2008 11:54:24 PM
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clag4christ
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TammyIsBlessed
Everyone seems to know someone who almost died from a ruptured ectopic pregnancy - I do too. Does any one know the stats on how many women actually do die?
I posted that already...About 40-50 women a year die from pregnancy related complications in the first trimester.
INFO
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<-----Jael as Tinkerbell - Halloween 2008
If you don't want people to insult your intelligence; don't make it so obvious that you have none.
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RE: Ectopic Pregnancy - 10/10/2008 1:27:15 PM
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kielbasa
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quote:
As to the second question, yes, I think it was legal, but still frowned upon by the catholic church..and therfore many a woman died...often leaving many children behind them.
Hi, OneofHisJewels (neat name, btw).
I think you are misunderstanding what the Church says. Abortion is *always* morally illicit, as it is the deliberate taking of an innocent human life. But the Church does not expect women to die in the case of an ectopic pregnancy--her life is just as sacred.
If I understand correctly, there are currently three ways to treat an ectopic pregnancy: methotrexate, saplingostomy (removing the baby from the tube), and saplingectomy (removing the tube itself).
The first two treatments are morally illicit, as the direct intent is to kill the baby. The third is morally licit, as its intent is to save the life of the mother by removing a malfunctioning organ (the tube), not to directly kill the baby, even though that is an unintended consequence, a "double effect."
The first two instances constitute directly attacking the baby; the third does not.
I do think that in most cases (just judging from people I have known) it is a moot point, since the ectopic pregnancy is not even known until it ruptures.
Hope this helps.
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RE: Ectopic Pregnancy - 10/10/2008 4:59:35 PM
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3cappuccinosmom
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quote:
The first two treatments are morally illicit, as the direct intent is to kill the baby. The third is morally licit, as its intent is to save the life of the mother by removing a malfunctioning organ (the tube), not to directly kill the baby, even though that is an unintended consequence, a "double effect."
Thank you for explaining that!
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