RE: I just don't know..... (Full Version)

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hnt -> RE: I just don't know..... (12/22/2008 6:08:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cynthia

quote:

ORIGINAL: Roberta_

He's just telling me that he'll be out sometime between January and April. That's all he has told me.

He has told my family the other things. He has no idea that I know when he'll be out or that he wants to discuss reconciliation, etc.

I don't like the fact that he went behind my back. I don't like the fact that he told a family member who is a known blabber-mouth and that person told my dd. She doesn't give a hoot about her dad, but she's been telling me how much it would mean to her to move back to IN and be with her old friends and in her old school. I think that was sneaky and underhanded and it hurt our dd.

Why haven't you confronted him on that?


We have to remember you are dealing with an irrational person. Someone that decided out of the blue - its time for reconcilation. If I were guessing I would count on him using the family members as a tool of pressure on her. Its a game to him. He was calling her numberous times prior on that one day she wanted to be left alone, and she did tell him that. He did what he wished.

If she does confront him she could risk him either blowing up at her, him blowing at them, or if I were guessing....in time both! Although you may wish to do that anyway Roberta. Your family could get a good taste of why you left, and may give you back up as to why you need to stay put for now.

Broken people like this are a bit insecure, and they do like to use intimidation to get what they want. Its easier to do when you are face to face, and you can't hang up or NOT answer the phone. Seems to me he wants a quick fix, and he may try guilt her into coming home. Make promises to the daugther so she can get it on both sides. The family portion? Gravy for him!

I think you need to call him on it Roberta, and let the things fall where they may. If he has got his fits of anger under control, and hasn't dealt with the abuse part yet? He will try different tactics. I would just put it out there, "Family has hinted to me that you may be coming to attempt some reconcilation. I don't think it would be wise at this point. I won't be happy about any surprises either." Have a list of conditions ready. Want to talk to this counselor, pastor, etc. for one.

It may slow him down, or he may rage again...but at least a distance. Let the chips fall where they may. Personally, I would be scared to death!



cynthia -> RE: I just don't know..... (12/22/2008 9:00:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hnt
I think you need to call him on it Roberta, and let the things fall where they may. If he has got his fits of anger under control, and hasn't dealt with the abuse part yet? He will try different tactics. I would just put it out there, "Family has hinted to me that you may be coming to attempt some reconcilation. I don't think it would be wise at this point. I won't be happy about any surprises either." Have a list of conditions ready. Want to talk to this counselor, pastor, etc. for one.

It may slow him down, or he may rage again...but at least a distance. Let the chips fall where they may. Personally, I would be scared to death!

If you do this over the phone, I think it would be easier than trying to do it in person when he shows up. Besides that, I am one to think that the sooner the better is often (not always) the best course of action.



manda59 -> RE: I just don't know..... (12/22/2008 9:45:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Roberta_
She doesn't give a hoot about her dad, but she's been telling me how much it would mean to her to move back to IN and be with her old friends and in her old school. I think that was sneaky and underhanded and it hurt our dd.



Roberta

How about nipping this in the bud with your dd, and saying categorically that whether or not you reconcile with her dad, you won't be moving back to Indiana.



PinkCarnations -> RE: I just don't know..... (12/22/2008 10:42:05 PM)

Manda- I was actually thinking of doing that.



manda59 -> RE: I just don't know..... (12/22/2008 10:43:39 PM)

GMTA! [;)][:D]



clag4christ -> RE: I just don't know..... (12/26/2008 12:46:32 AM)

Roberta,

How are you doing? How was your Christmas? [:)]



PinkCarnations -> RE: I just don't know..... (12/26/2008 1:49:26 AM)

Don't ask! My Christmas was straight out of A Christmas Story. [8D]



2thepoint -> RE: I just don't know..... (12/26/2008 6:23:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Roberta_

hnt- so much of what you've said just sounds like him...... or at least how he was a year ago. And you're right, I don't know if he's been celibate. He has made no mention of seeing anyone else. I haven't asked. It wouldn't matter anyway because I would have no way of knowing if he was telling the truth or not.

He actually hasn't told me directly that he wants to talk about reconciliation. He told my mom, my dad, my sister and my step-mom. I'm sure he'd have talked to my brothers too if he knew where their phone numbers were. [8|] He was planning on surprising me with the news that he's ready to work on things. They told me that he was planning on surprising me with this discussion. They told me so that I'd be prepared.

I did realize something today. I haven't forgiven him. I've felt that "nudge" to forgive him many times and I've ignored it. I was talking with a lady at church today. She told me that God leading me to forgive him does not mean that God is leading me to reconcile with him.
Emphasis is mine.

As reasonable and wise as this may sound to you or others, the reality is that there is no separation between forgiveness and reconcilation - not the kind that God and the Lord speak of, define and offer to us. You thankfully have recognized and have admitted that you have not forgiven him of his sins against you and his daughter. You recognize and admit also that you have resisted the Spirit of God calling you to release him of his debt to you as well. Don't resist this call and work of the Spirit's convicting power another second. Do it out of obedience to the command and warnings God has given us all not to fail to forgive our brothers from our hearts...and even forgive our enemies as well. I say this fo the good of both you and your husbands and your daughters sake...for the sake of others as well that one day will be blessed to meet you and find you a source of hope and wisdom from above to them in THEIR trials and tribulations.

The answer to your questions and concerns are to be found FIRST in the Holy Scriptures and FIRST as well in the abiding presence of Christ's Spirit liviing IN you and his accessibility to your heart and mind. He will guide you into all truth - which truth will lead you to do that which is right and just in his eyes - which may go cross-current against what you or others think and have 'map out' as 'the thing to do'.

Forgive him by the power of God, and you will be better able to rightly 'see' what you ought to do next.

Also, read and do study...meditate seriously upon those passages that speak directly to these things. You are a wife: What does God say then, instruct, command and encourage a wife, ALL wives to think, say, and DO with reference to their own husbands...and what NOT TO say or do to them? Read and meditate on the passages that speak about and give insight to the meaing God gives to forgiveness and reconciliation. Why is it that he commands us to forgive? Is it more than just a seemingly (at times) 'unreasonable' command? What parable contains a dire warning and reveal horrific consequenses for those that refuse to forgive? Do a word study as well on the meaning of the terms. Find out how these terms or words are translated elsewhere.

Lastly. In the multitude of counselors there is wisdom...BUT ONLY when they are wise counselors. I do not live in a vacuum regarding all this. I too have gone through great affliction from a spouse. No time or need here for details. I have forgiven them...and have to continue to do so as new offences arise. I have learned and am still learning what it means to have to assume the debts that forgiveness requires. Why should I or you or anyone else have to 'pay' for the debt of others...they are the debtors? Only because in fact WE TOO are debtors...WE TOO have (one and all) offended someone - God first and foremost. It is his forgiveness, his releasing us from our debts that make us responsible and requires us to forgive others. He assumed the cost of the sins and transgressions we committed against both others and himself. And until we understand this correctly and keep this ever fresh and clear in our own minds; we will not understand and as a consequence NOT do the same or think the same of others sins against us.

Give your husband the benefit of the doubt...or I will say the bebnefit of the faith. Have faith in God to do what he would have you do: Love believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things, love never fails. If you read in 2 Cor. 2, you will reade of forgiveness, compassion, of over much sorrow and of 'proof'. Who is it that needs to be forgiven? Who is it that Paul is calling to 'prove' things here? What is the result of withholding the things that Paul called the believers at Corinth to openly display?

Do the serious work before God to forgive the past sins of your husband against you and against his and your daughter. Do this, come out of your time with God having this straight, and I can assure you, you'll be better able to 'see' aright what you ought to do next. God will guide you while you abide in his love and in the Light. Sorry for the length of this.



manda59 -> RE: I just don't know..... (12/26/2008 7:52:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 2thepoint
As reasonable and wise as this may sound to you or others, the reality is that there is no separation between forgiveness and reconcilation

Forgiving someone does not have to mean putting yourself in a position to let them do it again. If someone has betrayed your trust, and especially if they are not repentant, it would not just put you in danger to trust them again but would actually also be enabling them in their sin.



csl7037 -> RE: I just don't know..... (12/26/2008 8:24:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: manda59

quote:

ORIGINAL: 2thepoint
As reasonable and wise as this may sound to you or others, the reality is that there is no separation between forgiveness and reconcilation

Forgiving someone does not have to mean putting yourself in a position to let them do it again. If someone has betrayed your trust, and especially if they are not repentant, it would not just put you in danger to trust them again but would actually also be enabling them in their sin.


I can see 2thepoint's point (I think) and I see what you're saying Manda...frankly, I'm confused. This is something I'm struggling with. God has spoken to me very clearly about a situation I'm in where He said I have to forgive and forgive like he does - completely. But those who offended me are very, very repentant....which certainly helps.

I do believe forgiveness and reconciliation go hand in hand with God - you've got the whole 70x7 and "turn the other cheek" commands that we can't ignore here. I do also believe God doesn't want us putting ourselves in danger - especially where that involves children we are responsible to protect. I guess, then, it falls to our definition of danger. Is the OP's dh dangerous? I think that's a fair question. But is the chance that we might get used, betrayed, or hurt again danger? I don't know if that would qualify. Kinda seems more like a 70x7 situation.

Regardless, I do still think forgiveness and reconciliation go together. Where necessary the reconciliation may mean the relationship but God may still expect us to be smart....you can reconcile emotionally and be left where all you can do is pray for the person and love them like God does but still be physically distant for your own (or your family's) safety.

In my situation, I want reconciliation. The world and conventional wisdom says there has to be no contact. I plan to meet with this person soon. I need this relationship put back together even if it can never really look the same in a practical sense. Whether it can go back to what it was or, rather, to what God intended it to be from the start, most would say is impossible...I'm praying about that. I'd actually like a do-over.

Maybe that's what her dh is wanting...but it doesn't sound like he appreciates the mess of a situation he created enough to know what he's asking which means, in a purely practical sense, it would never work. But does reconciliation/forgiveness mean God would expect her to go back into that situation and do her part (which could in fact change the situation and him) or does it mean the relationship can be reconciled stopping just short of the logistical reconciliation? Does scripture support an argument either way? I don't know, I'm asking.



manda59 -> RE: I just don't know..... (12/26/2008 8:36:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: csl7037
In my situation, I want reconciliation. The world and conventional wisdom says there has to be no contact. I plan to meet with this person soon. I need this relationship put back together even if it can never really look the same in a practical sense. Whether it can go back to what it was or, rather, to what God intended it to be from the start, most would say is impossible...I'm praying about that. I'd actually like a do-over.

This is Roberta's thread so I don't want to go too off-topic, but I just want to ask you a question for you to ask yourself. Regardless of what you want, do you feel that it would be in your husband's best interest to have his past mistress back in your lives in any way at all? Would it be really fair on him, as he tries to work through his repentance and other issues from the past, to have temptation right there around him again? It's great that you want to do the noble thing, but I think it's worth looking a bit deeper and asking yourself a few questions before the Lord.



csl7037 -> RE: I just don't know..... (12/26/2008 8:52:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: manda59

quote:

ORIGINAL: csl7037
In my situation, I want reconciliation. The world and conventional wisdom says there has to be no contact. I plan to meet with this person soon. I need this relationship put back together even if it can never really look the same in a practical sense. Whether it can go back to what it was or, rather, to what God intended it to be from the start, most would say is impossible...I'm praying about that. I'd actually like a do-over.

This is Roberta's thread so I don't want to go too off-topic, but I just want to ask you a question for you to ask yourself. Regardless of what you want, do you feel that it would be in your husband's best interest to have his past mistress back in your lives in any way at all? Would it be really fair on him, as he tries to work through his repentance and other issues from the past, to have temptation right there around him again? It's great that you want to do the noble thing, but I think it's worth looking a bit deeper and asking yourself a few questions before the Lord.


This is quite a bit different so I don't want to go too far off-couse either. Roberta's situation and mine have different variables, for sure. But I do know I need to fix the relationship with her. Then, I guess we'll have to figure out what it will look like going forward. I don't know how she or my dh would feel about getting the families back together on some level. We certainly wouldn't do so lightly. Dh doesn't even want to talk about that yet because we both know her dh is nowhere near ready to have such a conversation and, he fears, may never be.

I'm grappling with, Biblically, what would God want in this kind of situation (mine or Roberta's) and what does it mean to forgive? Of course in the OT the only reason Moses allowed divorce was because of the hardness of our hearts. God recognized the limitations of our humanity, especially when we're dealing with other people who we can't control or be responsible for. But, if all the parties of a situation like this were walking with the Lord, repentant, and humbled before Him, what would God want "reconciliation" to look like?



zoebob -> RE: I just don't know..... (12/26/2008 9:31:30 AM)

Reconcilliation is a two way process so it's not always something you can do if the other person is unwilling. Reconcilliation also doesn't mean that your relationship is the same as it was before just that you have some sort of a relationship



manda59 -> RE: I just don't know..... (12/26/2008 9:57:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: zoebob
Reconcilliation is a two way process so it's not always something you can do if the other person is unwilling. Reconcilliation also doesn't mean that your relationship is the same as it was before just that you have some sort of a relationship



zoebob is absolutely right.

Reconciliation (as in having some kind of relationship) is one thing, restoration (to how things were before) is another thing completely.



zoebob -> RE: I just don't know..... (12/26/2008 10:06:58 AM)

WOW!! You agreed with me.[sm=icon_smile_yikes.gif][sm=icon_smile_faint.gif][sm=smile.gif]



manda59 -> RE: I just don't know..... (12/26/2008 10:16:30 AM)

[;)][8D][:D]



zoebob -> RE: I just don't know..... (12/26/2008 10:20:00 AM)

LOL



magdaleine -> RE: I just don't know..... (12/26/2008 10:29:27 AM)

quote:

Forgiving someone does not have to mean putting yourself in a position to let them do it again. If someone has betrayed your trust, and especially if they are not repentant, it would not just put you in danger to trust them again but would actually also be enabling them in their sin.
I whole-heartedly agree. I lent $700 to a friend a number of years ago. She has never repaid me. I have forgiven her, which means I won't ask for the money back. I'll take the loss BUT I will never lend to her again. If someone murders my children, I can forgive him, but it would be unwise to let him be free so he could do it again to someone else. Roberta's (or anyone's) marriage is no different. Roberta can forgive her estranged husband. Her forgiveness means that she takes the pain of what happened without expecting retribution. It does NOT mean that she puts herself in the place of being battered--whether it is physically or emotionally--again.



clag4christ -> RE: I just don't know..... (12/26/2008 12:46:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: manda59

quote:

ORIGINAL: 2thepoint
As reasonable and wise as this may sound to you or others, the reality is that there is no separation between forgiveness and reconcilation

Forgiving someone does not have to mean putting yourself in a position to let them do it again. If someone has betrayed your trust, and especially if they are not repentant, it would not just put you in danger to trust them again but would actually also be enabling them in their sin.


quote:

Reconcilliation is a two way process so it's not always something you can do if the other person is unwilling. Reconcilliation also doesn't mean that your relationship is the same as it was before just that you have some sort of a relationship


Manda and Zoebob are absolutely right.



cynthia -> RE: I just don't know..... (12/26/2008 1:48:57 PM)

There can be no reconciliation without repentance. A person can let go of his angry feeling towards someone who has hurt him, but that doesn’t mean all is well if the other person is still in sin. When the Lord forgives us and we repent, our sin is removed as the east is from the west, but this does not happen unless we are repentant. We cannot be reconciled to God unless we accept his gift through letting go of our sinful life and taking up His life.

The same is true in our relationships with those who have sinned against us. We are told that we must forgive if we want to be forgiven, but that does not mean we are to forget about it and go back to letting the person continue in sin. If we do, then we are entering into their sin with them and in most cases we are enabling them by turning a blind eye to sin. That is not forgiveness and reconciliation. It is foolishness. We should, no we must, forgive, but to forget about what has happened and to act as if everything is okay makes no sense. This can and often does lead to further sin rather than encouraging a person to repentance and righteousness.

Forgiving someone allows us to treat the one who has sinned against us with respect and love, rather than bitterness. We are not to walk in bitterness, but to look out for the best interests of others as well as ourselves. It is not in the best interest of anyone to be enabled in sin and to be shielded from the consequences thereof. We are not to try to cause harm or to take revenge. We are to forgive and let the Lord do His work and to be at peace.



magdaleine -> RE: I just don't know..... (12/26/2008 4:23:53 PM)

well said, Cynthia!



greekyo -> RE: I just don't know..... (12/27/2008 3:30:16 AM)

Do nothing. Wait for God to answer your prayer. If you try to answer your own prayer by taking uncertain steps, it will likely be the wrong decision.



PinkCarnations -> RE: I just don't know..... (1/1/2009 1:28:31 AM)

Thank you all for your words of wisdom. I still don't know what I'm going to do, but I wanted to thank you all for your input and support and prayers.



bolt. -> RE: I just don't know..... (1/1/2009 11:42:58 PM)

You don't have to 'know what you are going to do.' It's his job to win your trust back. It's his job to fix what he has broken. If he manages that, there won't be real confusion any more. If he tries, and it doesn't work, he can try again or he can leave you alone. Either way, that's all his end of this.

Until then, try and live a faithful, godly, gracious and sensible life. If you meet anything he does in those ways, you will have done well. That's all the plan you need... Oh, and you might want to journal. It helps with clarity in this sort of long term journey.



PinkCarnations -> RE: I just don't know..... (1/2/2009 12:32:18 AM)

I journal a lot anyway. Thanks for the reminder.



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