RE: I just don't know..... (Full Version)

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manda59 -> RE: I just don't know..... (1/2/2009 7:49:28 AM)

Roberta

Have you spoken to your daughter yet about staying in CA regardless?



PinkCarnations -> RE: I just don't know..... (1/2/2009 11:56:47 AM)

No Manda. She hasn't said anything else about it so I figured I'd wait until after her Sweet 16.



Memaw. -> RE: I just don't know..... (1/5/2009 8:48:13 PM)

Just spoke to Roberta, he showed up unannounced (actually was pulling up as we were on phone), she has asked me to post here that she is in need of prayer.



manda59 -> RE: I just don't know..... (1/5/2009 8:51:25 PM)

Oh for crying out loud. [&:]

I thought he might though, because of her dd's birthday. He may try and use this to make it harder for her to say no.

Ugh.

Thanks for letting us know, Memaw.

Praying.



hnt -> RE: I just don't know..... (1/5/2009 10:03:11 PM)

Ugh - She knew he was coming didn't she? [:@]

Praying for you!



PinkCarnations -> RE: I just don't know..... (1/6/2009 2:59:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hnt

Ugh - She knew he was coming didn't she? [:@]

Praying for you!


Yeah, when I last talked to him (New Years Day) he said that he didn't know when he'd be out. [:@]

He called me about 4:30 this afternoon. He told me that he was in Oakland. When I asked him why he didn't warn me in advance, he said it was because he wanted to surprise me for my birthday. WHATEVER!! He totally didn't mention anything about it also being our dd's birthday..... and it's a big one for her.... He said that he'd see us in a day or two. Then he showed up in the driveway about an hour later. [:@][:@]

When he was leaving, I asked him what his plans where for the week. He said he didn't know. [:@][:@][:@]

When he left, he attempted to give me a kiss goodbye. I turned my head. I could see that I hurt him. I'm not sure what I'm more angry about: The fact that I hurt him, the fact that he showed up out of the blue or a million other things. [:@][:@][:@][:@]

I am not at all pleased with how I handled the visit. I didn't offer them (he had a friend with him who we used to be very close to) a cold drink. I barely said a word during the visit.



manda59 -> RE: I just don't know..... (1/6/2009 3:27:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Roberta_
I am not at all pleased with how I handled the visit. I didn't offer them (he had a friend with him who we used to be very close to) a cold drink. I barely said a word during the visit.



Well, the way you reacted sounds reasonable to me, under the circumstances. I honestly think you're being too hard on yourself - give yourself a break, please!!

If you'd been too pleased and welcoming, he might have thought it was fine to treat you like that, to turn up without warning. You may feel you didn't get the balance quite right, but hey, I think you did ok, since you didn't deck him! [:)]



hnt -> RE: I just don't know..... (1/6/2009 8:47:02 AM)

quote:

since you didn't deck him!
[:D]

Roberta: I see nothing wrong with your reaction. He arrives with no notice, and sounds like he wanted to keep you off balance. He can't expect a goodbye kiss with the relationship the way it is, and then he feels its time to spring stuff on you without so much as a real conversation.

If his friend didn't know what he was walking in on - he should now. You just don't do those types of things! Its very rude, and comes across as thinking of himself and nobody else.

All you can do is stand firm! If he wants something he needs to find a different direction to go about it with. He needs to respect your needs and wants as well. He needs to respect your hesitation as well. The way he did it so far seems intimidating, and he can't expect to get that far acting like that.

You did fine with what you were handed. You had no time to think or prepare. Give yourself a break!



Kath -> RE: I just don't know..... (1/6/2009 9:08:38 AM)

Wow, sounds like he is still trying to keep control and is manipulating you big time.

I'd be livid.



bolt. -> RE: I just don't know..... (1/6/2009 10:22:29 AM)

You need to let him know that since his 'surprise' visit made you uncomfortable, you expect him not to visit your house without an invitation again. Tell him that if he chooses to 'just show up' again, the door will remain closed even if you are home.

Then let him know that you would be most comfortable if he chose to ask you to see him in a place that is neither your home nor as private as a hotel room (if he is staying at a hotel room).

Remind him that you do not hate him, but that there are only certain levels of contact that you are currently comfortable with, and that you hope he is interested in rebuilding your comfort level through respecting it. End with a pleasant, "Talk to you later." (In hopes that this cuts off any back-lash he might be prone to if he feels defensive.)



cynthia -> RE: I just don't know..... (1/6/2009 12:01:51 PM)

Roberta, I am so sorry that you feel bad about how you reacted. Putting up appropriate boundaries is the right thing to do, but it is very difficult to learn what appropriate is and how to function in that. Please give this over to the Lord and allow Him to help you see clearly and to walk in His peace.



PinkCarnations -> RE: I just don't know..... (1/6/2009 12:56:51 PM)

I just checked my vm. He left me a message about 9:15 saying that he was on his way over. He was in the car. Since it's almost 10, he should be here any minute now.



bolt. -> RE: I just don't know..... (1/6/2009 1:33:08 PM)

DOOR CLOSED.

Call back.

Let him know his limits.

If he is really ready to reconcile, then he is ready to RESPECT YOU.



cynthia -> RE: I just don't know..... (1/6/2009 1:51:11 PM)

Roberta, You are in charge of you. He is not in charge of you. He is acting like he is in charge of you. He is behaving in a controlling way. He flew half way across the country to try to assert control over you. You don't have to give control over to him. You don't have to be "nice" to him. What is good for you is also good for him, because truth is not relative. If he is hurting you, this is not good for him either. It only makes him worse. You have every responsiblity to tell him that he may not come over unannounced.



manda59 -> RE: I just don't know..... (1/6/2009 2:13:05 PM)

Roberta,

What cynthia said. With bells on.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cynthia
Roberta, You are in charge of you. He is not in charge of you. He is acting like he is in charge of you. He is behaving in a controlling way. He flew half way across the country to try to assert control over you. You don't have to give control over to him. You don't have to be "nice" to him. What is good for you is also good for him, because truth is not relative. If he is hurting you, this is not good for him either. It only makes him worse. You have every responsiblity to tell him that he may not come over unannounced.



cynthia -> RE: I just don't know..... (1/6/2009 2:38:09 PM)

My statement does not mean or imply that I am suggesting you be unkind or rude. You can be gentle and still be firm. You don't need to go on and on, but you can clearly state that you are not going to be treated in such a rude manner any longer and he has to leave. Short and simple, yet firm. Boundaries are good for everyone, because they build good relationships.



MrsTracy72 -> RE: I just don't know..... (1/6/2009 2:45:39 PM)

Roberta, I didn't know you had this thread, so I answered a bit in another thread. Did he leave this morning? Have you thought about what you are going to do to get him to leave you alone and only deal with your daughter? I am sorry he came like that. I know you had mentioned he may or may not be there, but usually, that means they stay away because something better seems to come up. I do hope and pray that you have the strength to be firm with him and take care of not only you, but your daughter. I know he has a right to see her, but from your posts, it sounds like he forgot that she even exists at the moment.



magdaleine -> RE: I just don't know..... (1/7/2009 12:49:42 AM)

Roberta, I'm SO sorry to come here and read how your husband has treated you. I agree with what Cynthia and pbaribeault said (as well as others). You owe him nothing. Just because he paid a lot of money to fly out to see you, doesn't mean that you're obligated to see him or accept his attentions. I agree that he is being controlling, manipulative and DECEITFUL!!!!! Deceit is not the way to win your estranged wife's affections. And frankly, you don't want to return to a man who shows no interest in honesty--to say nothing about controlling and manipulative. [:@][:@][:@][:@][:@][:@][:@][:@][:@] (at him)



PinkCarnations -> RE: I just don't know..... (1/8/2009 3:29:17 AM)

I am sorry that I haven't been on to respond. When I've had free time, I'm emotionally drained.

My family thinks that I'm not giving him a fair chance because I refuse to have any physical contact with him.

He still hasn't gotten rid of the beard that I have found disgusting for the last 17 years.
We went out for lunch today and I had to leave the tip.
We went to church tonight. He told me that he'd meet me in the car. He gave me about two minutes before he started honking the horn. (Sorry, but someone had to gather up the four cats and one dog and get them outside and make sure everything was turned off and the doors locked.)

"Little things" like that are grating on my nerves right now.

Oh Maggie, he works for United Airlines. One of the perks with his job is travel. It cost him $30 to fly out here only because he chose to fly first class. It would've been free if he went with coach.



manda59 -> RE: I just don't know..... (1/8/2009 7:55:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Roberta_
My family thinks that I'm not giving him a fair chance because I refuse to have any physical contact with him.

I am sorry that you're under pressure from them, it really is no-one's business except yours.
quote:


"Little things" like that are grating on my nerves right now.

That's entirely understandable. It's also sadly another indication that he hasn't really changed at all and isn't really open to change.

How long is he staying? How is your daughter taking it all?



Row1 -> RE: I just don't know..... (1/8/2009 10:10:59 AM)

"He's told the rest of my family that he plans on seeing me and talking about reconciliation. He hasn't said a word to me about it."

I don't know the whole story, or any of these people, but this totally sounds like manipulation. Abusive people do this well.

On top of that, an abusive person will develop the situation to make it seem like YOU are the 'bad' person. You are 'bad' for not being cordial when he appeared. So, YOU contributed to the 'downer' effect on the sweet sixteen SurprisE! he planned. what a horrible mom - killing the joy of sweet sixteen!!

He has built up communications with YOUR family BEFORE with YOU so that he has everyone on his side. Why? To win you back? No, to frame YOU as the lone bad person, and everyone else as the cheerleaders watching some great ending to some great romantic movie.

You have been set up to look bad unless you go along with him (in my opinion).

This is manipulation. Frankly, I would consider this to be yet another version of emotional abuse. No yelling. Just the manipulation.

Here is a guess: this is his way of getting along in the worlds, and getting what he wants or needs from others. It is so much a part of him, that he may truly believe he is being better. He has truly quit one pattern of behavior. But what his mind come sup with as an alternative plan is not a plan that God would be pleased with - but another version of control and manipulation.

I agree with everyone who has said to be assertive: YOU decide when ANYONE comes over to visit you. You decide whether you will take a call or not. You decide whether you will live in CA or IN.

Several people have posted that you should explain all of your thinking to your daughter. I also think it is great advice. You could review the parts of the Bible that cover the husband-wife relationship - and let your daughter know it is not easy, but you will only settle for this dedicated-servant style of relationship from a suitor.

Keep posting here, and maybe meet with a counselor, to understand and recognize this manipulative style. If he is really good at it, you are up against a big challenge.



magdaleine -> RE: I just don't know..... (1/8/2009 10:23:02 AM)

quote:

We went out for lunch today and I had to leave the tip.
We went to church tonight. He told me that he'd meet me in the car. He gave me about two minutes before he started honking the horn. (Sorry, but someone had to gather up the four cats and one dog and get them outside and make sure everything was turned off and the doors locked.)

If he's like this while he's trying "woo" you back to him, what would he be like if you DID go back. I shudder to think what your life would be like. I really think you need to make a stand ASAP. Perhaps cut to the quick, BEFORE he "surprises" you with his hope that you'll return to him, and tell him that you have no interest in returning. You don't have to give reasons, but if you want to, you could list the ways that he has been manipulative (just read the last few pages of the thread if you're not sure what they are). Row1, good post!



bolt. -> RE: I just don't know..... (1/8/2009 11:04:40 AM)

quote:

(1) He still hasn't gotten rid of the beard that I have found disgusting for the last 17 years.
(2) We went out for lunch today and I had to leave the tip.
(3) We went to church tonight. He told me that he'd meet me in the car. He gave me about two minutes before he started honking the horn. (Sorry, but someone had to gather up the four cats and one dog and get them outside and make sure everything was turned off and the doors locked.)

(1) Have you told him that you would find him more attractive clean-shaven? Recently? Has he asked you what he can do to 'win you back'? Did you include this term? If so, that's fair. If not, it's a touch nit-picky to be concerned about facial hair as kind of a 'gesture' towards your taste, when there are so many substantive things wrong with his behaviour.

(2) You are still stuck in the 'have to' trap. You did not 'have to' leave a tip -- he was responsible for that expense, and if he chose not to pay the server, that's his decision. You might have asked, "Do you plan on leaving a tip?" (No.) "Well, I think that's unkind and irresponsible." But don't cover for him, simply let him decide.

(3) Again with the boundaries. I would rather take the bus or pay for a taxi than accept a ride with a man who thought he could honk at me! As for after the fact, if you go somewhere else 'together' take your own vehicle and meet him there. If he wants to know why, let him know that his choice to honk caused you to be agitated and humiliated, and that you did not intend to give it an opportunity to happen again.

quote:

I refuse to have any physical contact with him.

People have been over the idea family-based manipulation, but I'm wondering what you mean by 'physical contact'. You mean that you are not letting him touch you, right? Or do you mean that you are just not letting him kiss you or sleep with you? (I'm thinking this is it.) Or do you mean that after all this you have decided to go 'no contact' and not see him or speak to him in person?

Really it's none of their business, but if you want something on your side, you can ask why they think you should engage in foreplay with someone that it would be immoral for you to sleep with. (Your covenant is in a state of brokenness, and it will take renewed commitment before sleeping together would be appropriate.) Or you could ask them if they would like to kiss someone who they do not trust, and why they would want you to betray yourself that way.



manda59 -> RE: I just don't know..... (1/8/2009 11:40:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pbaribeault
(2) You are still stuck in the 'have to' trap. You did not 'have to' leave a tip -- he was responsible for that expense, and if he chose not to pay the server, that's his decision. You might have asked, "Do you plan on leaving a tip?" (No.) "Well, I think that's unkind and irresponsible." But don't cover for him, simply let him decide.

(3) Again with the boundaries. I would rather take the bus or pay for a taxi than accept a ride with a man who thought he could honk at me! As for after the fact, if you go somewhere else 'together' take your own vehicle and meet him there. If he wants to know why, let him know that his choice to honk caused you to be agitated and humiliated, and that you did not intend to give it an opportunity to happen again.



Both of these points by pbaribeault are very very well made, Roberta. Rather than letting these things grate on your nerves, empower yourself by establishing boundaries, rather than falling back into how you used to behave/react to him.



hnt -> RE: I just don't know..... (1/8/2009 12:18:00 PM)

I think your family is being a bit short sighted. I'm sure it hurts to watch you struggle, but just patching things up simplistically isn't going to make it better. They aren't looking at the whole picture, because its not something they are comfortable with.

Remember this is your life and not their life. You better than any of them know what is healthy for you, and what makes you feel uncomfortable. They can't define that for you.

I hope he doesn't stay much longer, but it sounds like you are doing a good job. Its okay to disagree with them. You are an adult, and you are quite capable of figuring things out for yourself. Its your perception on how things are working that is important, and if you don't want to physically be with him as much - that's your choice! Its called boundaries, and SURE at times they aren't always easy! I think you are doing a fine job with them, and you should pat yourself on the back!



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