RE: The "would you marry thread......."

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Psalms274 -> RE: The "would you marry thread......." (12/16/2008 11:50:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SamsonUSA quote: ORIGINAL: twinkly JohnO, no one saying Merry Christmas first is sad.... :-( If you are in woe and need to feel better... I have some Tylenol... hehe How about a chocolate santa? I have some of those too!!! Here is a "would you marry" question... would you marry someone who was EXTREMELY frugal? Like, beyond the norm of frugal? Bordering on cheap? For me, as long as it was not expected that I be the same way, and It did not cause huge issue that I was not, and all other things were in harmony, I would. It would probably not hurt me to be a bit more frugal, however, don't expect it to the extreme! I am under that adage that you "can't take it with you" LOL Not sure though, if someone were THAT frugal (or cheap) how it would not cause a problem if you are to be in agreement on purchases and such. Hmmm..... I wouldn't even date someone frugal so the answer would be a resounding NO! Though it isn't required in scripture that we need to share the same spiritual gifts with our future spouses I don't see how someone with an extreme gift of mercy could live in harmony with someone who is cheap. I have been blessed with a great career in which I am well compensated. I know He has done so that I can freely give to my church and to ministries that benefit children in need, including the non profit I am being led to start. So a frugal person and one who sees all of their blessings as coming from God to be used as a vessel to funnel them back into the Kingdom wouldn't make a good match. Ahhh ... but if you do not have an income that allows you to give as freely as others, you can be a good steward with God has given you so that you can give. I have never had the kind of blessings you are talking about, but God has given me a heart that longs to give. So I do without things like a TV and cable so that I can give to others. I imagine if I had a higher income I would not make too many changes, maybe a few, but would give more away. If I wasn't a good steward (as some would define as frugal) I wouldn't be able to give. Now if they were just hording money, I would see your point, which may be what y'all were talking about in the first place. (Meaning I was having an "it's all about me and my situation" moments! [8D][;)])

rgod -> RE: The "would you marry thread......." (12/16/2008 11:58:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SamsonUSA I wouldn't even date someone frugal so the answer would be a resounding NO! Though it isn't required in scripture that we need to share the same spiritual gifts with our future spouses I don't see how someone with an extreme gift of mercy could live in harmony with someone who is cheap. I have been blessed with a great career in which I am well compensated. I know He has done so that I can freely give to my church and to ministries that benefit children in need, including the non profit I am being led to start. So a frugal person and one who sees all of their blessings as coming from God to be used as a vessel to funnel them back into the Kingdom wouldn't make a good match. I agree with this for the most part. I think it depends on the definition of frugal. I definitely want to be with someone who is fiscally responsible, but someone who is pinching every penny - wants to always get the cheapest thing - won't splurge when we can clearly afford to - or who sees another in need and won't give it because they are cheap doesn't work for me. (Or someone who tithes exactly 10% down to the dollar - and never any more than that. God is so generous.) I don't have lots of money, but God has always blessed me in this area and so I rarely have to worry - even if I need to cut back on things at times. I would like someone who recognizes a good buy when he sees it - knows how to invest money well - and doesn't feel that he needs above his means constantly. But if we can afford it - why not take that trip to Europe or Africa? Why not splurge on a nice house, tv, or a nice car? Why not help that family, give to that struggling organization, or support that missionary? Why not invest in someone else's future (other than our child)? Otherwise, what is the purpose of money? Balance is good and as long as God is in the center, there is nothing wrong with enjoying and using what he gives.

Mrs.Benelchi -> RE: The "would you marry thread......." (12/16/2008 12:05:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Psalms274 Ahhh ... but if you do not have an income that allows you to give as freely as others, you can be a good steward with God has given you so that you can give. I have never had the kind of blessings you are talking about, but God has given me a heart that longs to give. So I do without things like a TV and cable so that I can give to others. I imagine if I had a higher income I would not make too many changes, maybe a few, but would give more away. If I wasn't a good steward (as some would define as frugal) I wouldn't be able to give. Now if they were just hording money, I would see your point, which may be what y'all were talking about in the first place. (Meaning I was having an "it's all about me and my situation" moments! [8D][;)]) I took it that way too. Frugal does not = miser Frugal is spending what you make wisely so you can do what you want with the rest. Giving is a huge part of who I am and I cut corners elsewhere, in order to give. My mother-in-law is very frugal....I have learned alot from her, however, she is not very giving(outside of family). So, it can go both ways. Reading the book called The Millionaire Next Door gave me alot of insight into being frugal. Great book.

solo_soprano23 -> RE: The "would you marry thread......." (12/16/2008 12:41:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: skreyola quote: ORIGINAL: TNBelle quote: ORIGINAL: Prairiehiker Would you marry a person who is not interested in sex if everything else about him or her is perfect by your standard? No, I wouldn't. Sex is an essential ingredient in marriage. If something happens after being married that makes sex impossible, that would be something difficult to deal with. But to enter a marriage knowing there wasn't going to be sex - no way! Sex in marriage bonds two people on the deepest possible emotional/spiritual levels. Plus, it's a lot of fun! I agree. And to clarify for other (not you, TNBelle), the OP asked about a person uninterested in sex, not unable... and anyway, sexual intimacy is not so much a binary state. Even if intercourse is impossible or contraindicated, the couple can still share sexual intimacy, in most cases. slips back into the shadows Thanks for saying that. There are a lot of women who are unable to have sex due to illness, and many times they feel abnormal, like damaged goods, and many have broken up and gone through divorces over it (but many times they can't find any treatment that will help them). I know from experience that men can make you feel terrible for it even when you're not married...or they head for the hills once they find out. That's fine though... I guess no one has to put up with it if they think they can't handle it. :) But it's an awful feeling for someone (in my personal experience, and through the support groups that I run). People can make you feel miserable for something you can't help (plus you feel miserable from the disease anyway), so I like to see people acknowledge the fact that some just have problems.

Psalms274 -> RE: The "would you marry thread......." (12/16/2008 12:46:43 PM)
quote: I took it that way too. Frugal does not = miser Frugal is spending what you make wisely so you can do what you want with the rest. Giving is a huge part of who I am and I cut corners elsewhere, in order to give. My mother-in-law is very frugal....I have learned alot from her, however, she is not very giving(outside of family). So, it can go both ways. Reading the book called The Millionaire Next Door gave me a lot of insight into being frugal. Great book. My idea of frugal means good steward. Like when I shop. I can get beautiful designer clothes for less than $5 at the Buckhead Goodwill store ... many of the items are new. If you clip coupons, you can get that dollar to go much farther than on it's own. Rgod is absolutely right, balance is key. Now being cheap (and I think that was what the word frugal meant in Samson's post ... please correct me if I'm wrong) is another matter. It shows a lack of trust in God to take care of you. The best book I have ever read on the biblical viewpoint of money and giving (and it is quite long!!!) is Money, Possessions and Eternity by Randy Alcorn.

benelchi -> RE: The "would you marry thread......." (12/16/2008 1:00:27 PM)
quote: no one mentioned divorcing someone first off. or do i need to go re-read the posts. No, but in the context of sex being "essential" to marriage it makes sense to mention it i.e. if sex is truly essential to marriage then a marriage cannot exist when there is no "sex". I mentioned divorce as an example in my post only because I do not believe that "sex" is so essential to marriage that a marriage must end if there is no sex. I do believe sex is a very important part of marriage, and only in extremely rare circumstances should it be absent from the marriage relationship, but it is not "essential" to marriage.

Prairiehiker -> RE: The "would you marry thread......." (12/16/2008 1:26:57 PM)
quote: would you marry someone who was EXTREMELY frugal? Like, beyond the norm of frugal? Bordering on cheap? I think for me, what would matter is if our money management philosophy is substantially different or not. I see nothing wrong with someone being frugal - someone who is a good steward of what God has entrusted in him. I have a hard time with men who are overly materialistic who has to have a brand new wide screen TV, latest cell phone, flashy car every year because he can afford it. OR someone who has to go out for dinner every single day because he can afford it. If a man live a very minimalist life so he can save for his future, donate to his church and to worthwhile causes, I think I would prefer that over a man who buys the latest toys because he can. Also, if there�s a substantial difference in where you allocate your money, that could be a problem and should be dealt with during pre marital counselling. Let�s say you�d rather spend a few grand on vacation every year, whereas he�d rather spend the money on something he can physically see, ie, a brand new furniture/applicance for the house, then it has to be decided ahead of time on what concession each one is going or willing to make. Money is one of the biggest cause of marital breakdown (actually, it�s probably pride manifested in other ways), and I would not go into marriage without fully discussing every aspect of money management with a man. We have to be compatible in this area. (can't you tell I"m an accountant?[:D])

John_O -> RE: The "would you marry thread......." (12/16/2008 2:08:54 PM)
quote: Here is a "would you marry" question... would you marry someone who was EXTREMELY frugal? Like, beyond the norm of frugal? Bordering on cheap? Seeing as I am frugal this would be an easy yes for me. And before I get jumped on, I also give lots to various charities. When I need to get something I tend to get the best that I can afford (What I call long term frugal) but I only buy when I really need it. If it's not majorly on sale, I'll wait. The most expensive thing I ever bought was my boat (It cost considerable more than the house did when we bought the house. Got a deal there too!) and I saved over $8000 by shopping around and buying it from a dealer about 250 miles from me rather than from the nearest guy. (I did give him the opportunity to match the price but he wasn't interested.)

SamsonUSA -> RE: The "would you marry thread......." (12/16/2008 4:13:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: John_O quote: Here is a "would you marry" question... would you marry someone who was EXTREMELY frugal? Like, beyond the norm of frugal? Bordering on cheap? Seeing as I am frugal this would be an easy yes for me. And before I get jumped on, I also give lots to various charities. When I need to get something I tend to get the best that I can afford (What I call long term frugal) but I only buy when I really need it. If it's not majorly on sale, I'll wait. The most expensive thing I ever bought was my boat (It cost considerable more than the house did when we bought the house. Got a deal there too!) and I saved over $8000 by shopping around and buying it from a dealer about 250 miles from me rather than from the nearest guy. (I did give him the opportunity to match the price but he wasn't interested.) Though I respect all of you who disagreed with my response I think most of you who have are looking at the question posed in a different light than I. I didn't try and say we are not to be frugal in regards to being a good steward with what the Lord has blessed us with. Though I earn a six figure income I also drive an SUV with 110,000 miles on it. My idea of spending money on myself is going out to a nice dinner on the town or attending a sporting event. Maybe taking a weekend road trip to the ocean or mountains and staying in a middle of the road hotel. ( Or a tent in the mountains) I don't wear jewelery of any kind or wear designer clothes. So yes, I can be classified as frugal. If I wasn't a good steward I would guess God would probably take away what He has blessed me with to teach me humility. So being a good " frugal " steward of what He has entrusted to us is one thing. Bordering on cheap is another. So my answer to " would I marry someone who is borderline cheap " would still be a resounding no. Someone cheap would inclined to hoard the blessings He has bestowed on us, something I wouldn't consider doing. Though I don't agree with everything Rick Warren says I do agree with this statement he said. " It is not a sin to be a rich man. But I do believe it is a sin to die a rich man". We can never out give God from whom all blessings flow.

willfs -> RE: The "would you marry thread......." (12/16/2008 6:10:31 PM)
No to the first question. Although, the type of person I am looking for has not shown themselves in my parts in ages so if someone who met all my other standards showed up I might bend alittle... maybe. Would you marry a person whose different from you politically if everything else about him or her is perfect by your standards? I am not talking something extreme like the nazi party but if you are a democrat would you marry a republican? If you are a republican would you marry a green party fan? If you are in the green party would you marry someone from the prohibition party? If you are a conservative, would you marry a liberal? If you are a liberal would you marry someone who enjoys Rush Limbaugh every day?

SamsonUSA -> RE: The "would you marry thread......." (12/16/2008 6:43:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willfs No to the first question. Although, the type of person I am looking for has not shown themselves in my parts in ages so if someone who met all my other standards showed up I might bend alittle... maybe. Would you marry a person whose different from you politically if everything else about him or her is perfect by your standards? I am not talking something extreme like the nazi party but if you are a democrat would you marry a republican? If you are a republican would you marry a green party fan? If you are in the green party would you marry someone from the prohibition party? If you are a conservative, would you marry a liberal? If you are a liberal would you marry someone who enjoys Rush Limbaugh every day? Good question willfs but I'd have to say no to this one too. I wouldn't date a liberal ( Ronald Reagan was my hero ) due to lack of common interests and ethics.

rgod -> RE: The "would you marry thread......." (12/16/2008 6:58:08 PM)
My hunch is that in terms of politics, most people who will respond here will probably say no. I think most people here are conservative, so they'll probably say they won't marry a liberal. (But, that's just my guess. We'll see how the posts go.) For me, it depends on how flexible he would be. I'm kind of moderate but would probably classify myself generally as being center left. If I were married to someone who identified more with the poles (hard right or hard left) - and also wasn't interested in understanding why the other side might think the way they do (they don't have to agree to it though) - then absolutely no deal. I think if someone listened to Limbaugh or Oberman a lot and used only one as their main source of news, we would never have common ground and there would be lots of fights. I wouldn't like that. I do think I'd probably have a harder time with someone who was a die-hard conservative than with someone who is a die-hard liberal - because I agree with the liberal approach on more social issues than the current conservative approach. But not all - so once we got to those issues, I'd clash with the die-hard liberal too. But, if that person had strong feelings, but can understand why the other side might approach the issue differently - even if they don't agree with it - then it would be pretty cool - because then we could have terrific discussions. A really good friend of mine is very conservative (she's become a bit more moderate over the years though as she's dealt with more people who are poor or are struggling). We pretty much talk through issues - I like hearing why she sees things the way she does - it is very consistent. She makes me think through my own approach to issues as well and there are times that I make her think about things. There are many times that we agree on things - because we are coming from the bible - but might have differences based on implementation. It is good; I'm glad for the friendship.

song -> RE: The "would you marry thread......." (12/16/2008 8:06:58 PM)
Screaming? Yes. I live with a room mate who is very noisy in her sleep. And our beds are close enough together that we might as well be in the same one. [8D] Frugal? Probably not. God has always provided for my needs and I'm a giver. So even if I don't have much money left if someone needs something or I feel like someone needs to be blessed, I spend on them. Not that I'm that Jesus-like. Sometimes I just want something and I buy it even if I don't have a bunch of money in the bank. There's always the next paycheck. [:)] Life is too short to be worried about money in my opinion. On second thought maybe I need someone frugal to keep me in balance! [8D] I would never marry a democrat. Sorry. I would never marry or even date someone that voted for Obama either. [;)][8D] (It's okay, we can still be friends though and I promise to never talk down to you. [:)])

SamsonUSA -> RE: The "would you marry thread......." (12/16/2008 10:20:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rgod My hunch is that in terms of politics, most people who will respond here will probably say no. I think most people here are conservative, so they'll probably say they won't marry a liberal. (But, that's just my guess. We'll see how the posts go.) For me, it depends on how flexible he would be. I'm kind of moderate but would probably classify myself generally as being center left. If I were married to someone who identified more with the poles (hard right or hard left) - and also wasn't interested in understanding why the other side might think the way they do (they don't have to agree to it though) - then absolutely no deal. I think if someone listened to Limbaugh or Oberman a lot and used only one as their main source of news, we would never have common ground and there would be lots of fights. I wouldn't like that. I do think I'd probably have a harder time with someone who was a die-hard conservative than with someone who is a die-hard liberal - because I agree with the liberal approach on more social issues than the current conservative approach. But not all - so once we got to those issues, I'd clash with the die-hard liberal too. But, if that person had strong feelings, but can understand why the other side might approach the issue differently - even if they don't agree with it - then it would be pretty cool - because then we could have terrific discussions. A really good friend of mine is very conservative (she's become a bit more moderate over the years though as she's dealt with more people who are poor or are struggling). We pretty much talk through issues - I like hearing why she sees things the way she does - it is very consistent. She makes me think through my own approach to issues as well and there are times that I make her think about things. There are many times that we agree on things - because we are coming from the bible - but might have differences based on implementation. It is good; I'm glad for the friendship. I am open minded enough to explore the possibility of dating a right leaning moderate. But I wouldn't date anyone who would waste any of her short precious time here on earth filling her mind with anything a blowhard like Keith Olbermann would have to say.[:'(]

OneOfHisJewels -> RE: The "would you marry thread......." (12/17/2008 2:05:56 AM)
Ok, back to the frugal question.... I think we're using that word to define two different things... To be PRUDENT with one's money, to be a good steward, to manage it welll....those are all good qualities.. To be stingy and miserly are bad qualities... Would I marry a good money manager? Yes..in fact I want one, because I am weak in that area. Would I marry a hoarding scrooge who wouldn't buy a (genuinely) starving person a loaf of bread even if he had a bazillon dollars? No But would I marry someone who buys yachts that he can't afford before he pays the bills? No

OneOfHisJewels -> RE: The "would you marry thread......." (12/17/2008 2:09:15 AM)
Politics I could bend on so long as they were pro-life. They HAVE to be pro-life. After working with some hardworking poor, and seeing their struggles, I understand better the need for SOME government aid then I used to. Although, we should still do more to help them rise out of it, rather than be stuck in it. And after all my health insurance nightmares, I would be happy to help make a law that insurance companies HAVE to accept whoever will pay, REGARDLESS of preexisting conditions.

BugLady -> RE: The "would you marry thread......." (12/17/2008 2:17:10 AM)
quote: And after all my health insurance nightmares, I would be happy to help make a law that insurance companies HAVE to accept whoever will pay, REGARDLESS of preexisting conditions. I hear that! If you can pay for coverage, you shouldn't be denied coverage.

twinkly -> RE: The "would you marry thread......." (12/17/2008 7:28:43 AM)
Yes, what I meant by my original question was someone who only bought what was absolutely necessary and no extras. Who would give only the amount they were "supposed" to and no more. Who felt they had to save every dime and when you open their wallet the proverbial "moths" fly out of it. I don't mean someone who is smart with money. That is fine. And someone who is planning for the future is great. I meant someone who would not allow for any extras,etc... who thinks you can take it with you type mentality. Like me, I could use someone who had a strong sense about money. I am getting much better than I was when I was younger. I even have stocks and bonds, etc, a retirement fund, etc... I could do better in the savings dept and I am working on that. You do need to have an emergency fund that you don't touch and that is my goal for the new year. I think it is supposed to be one months worth of money that you do not touch. But, I do like spend, I am very generous, and I love to give. I could probably use a gentle hand on me sometimes saying "ahhh, dear, do you really need that?" That I could handle. But someone like I mentioned above? No way. They would kill me for sure because I totally do not have that attitude about things!!

rgod -> RE: The "would you marry thread......." (12/17/2008 8:03:14 AM)
twinkly - I think that the emergency fund is supposed to be equal to about 6 months of living expenses (I heard on CNN yesterday it should be about 9 - I guess to allot the extra time needed to find a job). I used to interpret it as 6 months of pay and felt overwhelmed - but I think it is actually living expenses, which for most people is less than pay. It isn't too hard to save for it if you can do it automatically - and if you can find a good investment vehicle that can be easily liquidated without penalty (like a CD or something like that) yet, can also give you interest. Sounds like creating a savings fund is a great goal for the new year. I have to make new financial goals too since I've had to make lots of adjustments for grad school and am looking to work in a newer - less stable - sector. But to God be the glory - He will provide!

John_O -> RE: The "would you marry thread......." (12/17/2008 10:17:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willfs I am not talking something extreme like the nazi party but if you are a democrat would you marry a republican? If you are a republican would you marry a green party fan? If you are in the green party would you marry someone from the prohibition party? If you are a conservative, would you marry a liberal? If you are a liberal would you marry someone who enjoys Rush Limbaugh every day? The democrats bear a huge similarity to the nazi party. Both are strongly socialist and anti-life. I am a Christian, an American, a conservative and a Republican in that order. I do not date liberals (which is interchangeable with democrats). I do not even associate with them if I can avoid it. I will not associate with someone who is pro-abortion, pro-homosexual, anti-family or anti-Christian. Most democrats willingly adhere to those ideas and the rest support them anyway. I try to not associate with people who support people who adhere to thsoe ideas. Sorry. I drifted into rant mode for a moment. This is a very passionate and very black and white issue for me.

broyce1981 -> RE: The "would you marry thread......." (12/17/2008 11:29:14 AM)
As for plotics I definitely consider myself to be conservative, though not too far right. I've never voted for a Democrat before in my life, but wouldn't be opposed to doing so for the right candidate. And yes, I've dated a Democrat in the past. I guess it depends on how the person approaches politics. If she has an attitude of I'm always right and tries to make me feel stupid for disagreeing, then yeah that's a problem. As long as she can discuss things civilly and be willing to agree to disagree on some things, then that's acceptable to me.

benelchi -> RE: The "would you marry thread......." (12/17/2008 11:59:12 AM)
quote: The democrats bear a huge similarity to the nazi party. Both are strongly socialist and anti-life. I am a Christian, an American, a conservative and a Republican in that order. I do not date liberals (which is interchangeable with democrats). I do not even associate with them if I can avoid it. I will not associate with someone who is pro-abortion, pro-homosexual, anti-family or anti-Christian. Most democrats willingly adhere to those ideas and the rest support them anyway. I try to not associate with people who support people who adhere to thsoe ideas. Sorry. I drifted into rant mode for a moment. This is a very passionate and very black and white issue for me. I myself would not marry a democrat because the values of those in the democratic party are not values I hold, and these value differences are in areas that are very important to me. However, I would and do associate with democrats all of the time just as I do with conservatives who do not hold Christian values, and many do not. From my experiences with some of the most liberal people in the country, I can tell you that you have completely mis-characterized many liberals. In California, the marriage amendment that prohibits gay marriage that was just passed in our local election was supported by a large percentage of democrats; it would not have passed without their support. The reality is that there are many pro-family, pro-Christian, anti-homosexual, and even pro-life liberals, and even though I do not understand how they can reconcile their support for the democratic party with the values the espouse, the reality is that they simply do not meet your "stereo type." If you were to associate with more of them, you would quickly realize that your perception of liberalism is deeply flawed! While do understand not condoning liberalism, I cannot understand at all the idea of not associating with liberals. The example of Christ in the gospels seems to me to stand in stark contrast to that course of action.

broyce1981 -> RE: The "would you marry thread......." (12/17/2008 12:53:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: benelchi quote: The democrats bear a huge similarity to the nazi party. Both are strongly socialist and anti-life. I am a Christian, an American, a conservative and a Republican in that order. I do not date liberals (which is interchangeable with democrats). I do not even associate with them if I can avoid it. I will not associate with someone who is pro-abortion, pro-homosexual, anti-family or anti-Christian. Most democrats willingly adhere to those ideas and the rest support them anyway. I try to not associate with people who support people who adhere to thsoe ideas. Sorry. I drifted into rant mode for a moment. This is a very passionate and very black and white issue for me. I myself would not marry a democrat because the values of those in the democratic party are not values I hold, and these value differences are in areas that are very important to me. However, I would and do associate with democrats all of the time just as I do with conservatives who do not hold Christian values, and many do not. From my experiences with some of the most liberal people in the country, I can tell you that you have completely mis-characterized many liberals. In California, the marriage amendment that prohibits gay marriage that was just passed in our local election was supported by a large percentage of democrats; it would not have passed without their support. The reality is that there are many pro-family, pro-Christian, anti-homosexual, and even pro-life liberals, and even though I do not understand how they can reconcile their support for the democratic party with the values the espouse, the reality is that they simply do not meet your "stereo type." If you were to associate with more of them, you would quickly realize that your perception of liberalism is deeply flawed! While do understand not condoning liberalism, I cannot understand at all the idea of not associating with liberals. The example of Christ in the gospels seems to me to stand in stark contrast to that course of action. It's definitely true that there are pro-life Democrats around. And at the same time there are anti-life Republicans as well. So it becomes hard to paint everyone in the same party with one brush.

John_O -> RE: The "would you marry thread......." (12/17/2008 12:53:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: benelchi quote: The democrats bear a huge similarity to the nazi party. Both are strongly socialist and anti-life. I am a Christian, an American, a conservative and a Republican in that order. I do not date liberals (which is interchangeable with democrats). I do not even associate with them if I can avoid it. I will not associate with someone who is pro-abortion, pro-homosexual, anti-family or anti-Christian. Most democrats willingly adhere to those ideas and the rest support them anyway. I try to not associate with people who support people who adhere to thsoe ideas. Sorry. I drifted into rant mode for a moment. This is a very passionate and very black and white issue for me. I myself would not marry a democrat because the values of those in the democratic party are not values I hold, and these value differences are in areas that are very important to me. However, I would and do associate with democrats all of the time just as I do with conservatives who do not hold Christian values, and many do not. From my experiences with some of the most liberal people in the country, I can tell you that you have completely mis-characterized many liberals. In California, the marriage amendment that prohibits gay marriage that was just passed in our local election was supported by a large percentage of democrats; it would not have passed without their support. The reality is that there are many pro-family, pro-Christian, anti-homosexual, and even pro-life liberals, and even though I do not understand how they can reconcile their support for the democratic party with the values the espouse, the reality is that they simply do not meet your "stereo type." If you were to associate with more of them, you would quickly realize that your perception of liberalism is deeply flawed! While do understand not condoning liberalism, I cannot understand at all the idea of not associating with liberals. The example of Christ in the gospels seems to me to stand in stark contrast to that course of action. (Please note that I use the current definition of liberalism as opposed to the classical definition. A liberal is pro-abortion, pro-homosexual, anti-religion (specifically anti-Christian) and usually anti-family. These are the defining charcateristics of liberalism in this day and age. Every liberal program advances these ideas) The marriage ammendment is just one small issue. While it's good that some liberals have enough sense to understand the issues involved I'd wager that most of them still vote democrat hence advancing the cause of sexual perversion in this country. I have no problem sharing the gospel with liberals, or ministering to them when they are in need. But I will not allow myself to be closely enough associated with liberals to be infected by their ideas. I've been familiar with enough of them in the past to realize that their ideas are deeply flawed and that they stand against everything that makes America free and great. How can two walk together less they agree. I disagree with liberals on almost everything, therefore I cannot walk with them. How are you defining liberal? If they are pro-family, pro-life, pro-Christian, anti-homosexual then they are not really liberal. Although if they still vote democrat then they are stealth liberals. Saying they are against these things yet secretly supporting them.

John_O -> RE: The "would you marry thread......." (12/17/2008 12:59:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: broyce1981 It's definitely true that there are pro-life Democrats around. And at the same time there are anti-life Republicans as well. So it becomes hard to paint everyone in the same party with one brush. This is an excellent point. Examine the impact that a pro-life democrat voter has. He votes for democrat candidates, of which more than 99% will be pro-abortion. So even though he is pro-life he votes pro-death. (I do not understand how anyone can delude themselves so completely as to think this is OK) His entire effect upon the political process is to advance abortion. Now examine the impact of a pro-abortion republican. He votes for candidates that are usually (probably at least 75%) pro-life. While I cannot paint all republicans as pro-life (and I do not), I can paint all democrats as pro-abortion because the results of their political activity ALWAYS advances abortion. So I could not marry a liberal (democrat) as they are pro-abortion (which is the murder of the child) and God says "Thou shalt not murder"

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