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RE: Using Photography for outreach - 1/28/2009 10:50:09 AM
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Holdcard
Posts: 269
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From: Phoenix, Arizona
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I'm going to try to get to the photo store today and look at (probably purchase) the items you recommended.
When you say smaller groups I'm not sure exactly how to pull that one off. Sometimes it'll work out that way but most of the time they are in one line. I can tighten up the shots a little in some instances to get a smaller group, is that the gist of what you're saying? I can also adjust the aperture so I get a shallower depth of field, that would focus on the smaller group and leave the people in the background out of focus.
I was able to make the flash work off camera, no wires. I like that a lot. Setting it up took only a few minutes, putting it back took longer and I wound up resetting the SB800 so now I'm starting over with the settings which isn't really a bad thing. I understand a little more now so I'll be able to do more with the settings.
Thanks again for all your help
Holdcard
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RE: Using Photography for outreach - 1/28/2009 5:23:36 PM
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TMeeks
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Holdcard
I'm going to try to get to the photo store today and look at (probably purchase) the items you recommended.
When you say smaller groups I'm not sure exactly how to pull that one off. Sometimes it'll work out that way but most of the time they are in one line. I can tighten up the shots a little in some instances to get a smaller group, is that the gist of what you're saying? I can also adjust the aperture so I get a shallower depth of field, that would focus on the smaller group and leave the people in the background out of focus.
Yes, that is what I was talking about. Try to focus a few individuals in a line and left the focus drift off for those in the background. In some cases the shallower DOF works to put some focus into an image.
quote:
I was able to make the flash work off camera, no wires. I like that a lot.
Your going to learn to like it a lot better as you work with it and soften the light a bit.
Shutter duration and Speedlight
A speedlight has very little actual range. So in a big room it will not give you much coverage. There are two things that your camera considers when shooting with flash in TTL mode. The first is the power to light the subject with the flash and the second is the time it will take to bring the background up to an acceptible level. While the flash fires in a 1/1000th of a second, the shutter can remain open much longer. This makes for a brighter overall picture; but, also presents some problems.
The most notable problem is image ghosting caused by camera shake of subject movement while the camera drinks in the background light. I didn't see this in ANY of the photos in your gallary, whish is remarkable given the low light level and size of the room. But, if you ever do see it, then switch to shutter priority and force a faster shutter setting.
The Histogram is your friend
Our goal is portraits and in that situation you can completely control the length of time the shutter is open by going full manual and watching the histogram as you review the shot. Here is an example of how the Histogram can warn you if your manual settings (or ANY photo result) is too dark, too light or just right. The top two samples show a well distributed histogram. Notice that the color sample is not appreciably different from the black and white version. The bottom two histograms show that the image is either too dark or too light by the way the histogram is distributed.
This can be a bit misleading if there oare no bleacks or whites in the image. If you are taking a picture of a white egg on a white table then don't expect the histogram to be well distributed. Conversely, a black cat on black velvet is going to weighted to the left.
But, in general our everyday photos have both black and white in them and look best if the histogram is generally centered. When shooting portraits, I always shoot several shots and adjust my camera by using the histogram. Above all I don't let it get too far to the right for that 'blows out the whites' and it's difficult to fix the image.
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RE: Using Photography for outreach - 1/28/2009 6:52:44 PM
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Holdcard
Posts: 269
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At the food ministry I usually shoot with the ISO at 800 and set the speed priority to either 80 or 100 to keep peoples movement from showing up. The strobe mount has really helped fill the room, before I got it it wasn't bad everything just kind of faded to black/dark. I like the whole room lit up better. I'll try to concentrate on smaller groups next week. I need to learn more about composure.
I learned to trust the histogram while taking photos at the zoo. The bright sun helps the photos turn out well but makes the display hard to see. I wound up getting my settings too dark. It was difficult to get used to but now I use it a lot. I actually leave the camera set up to display the histogram when it gives the preview image. I've noticed it swing to each end of the spectrum sometimes. When I was shooting the Zoolights the histogram stayed on the low side.
I got the equipment, I don't have room to set it up here but I'm excited about trying it out. Once I get comfortable with it I'll see if the church want's to move forward. It won't cost them much at this point, they'll just have to supply some people to represent the church. I'll probably make an offer to UCP (United Cerebral Palsy) where we work. The have a child care and some adult day programs, it'll be good practice.
Holdcard
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RE: Using Photography for outreach - 1/28/2009 9:41:02 PM
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TMeeks
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A great way to practice is to offer to photograph pets for free. The free part means they can't be too critical and the pet part endears you to them. The principles that apply to people portraits are the same ones required for good pet images.
Exactly what equipment do you now have?
quote:
ORIGINAL: Holdcard
At the food ministry I usually shoot with the ISO at 800 and set the speed priority to either 80 or 100 to keep peoples movement from showing up. The strobe mount has really helped fill the room, before I got it it wasn't bad everything just kind of faded to black/dark. I like the whole room lit up better. I'll try to concentrate on smaller groups next week. I need to learn more about composure.
I learned to trust the histogram while taking photos at the zoo. The bright sun helps the photos turn out well but makes the display hard to see. I wound up getting my settings too dark. It was difficult to get used to but now I use it a lot. I actually leave the camera set up to display the histogram when it gives the preview image. I've noticed it swing to each end of the spectrum sometimes. When I was shooting the Zoolights the histogram stayed on the low side.
I got the equipment, I don't have room to set it up here but I'm excited about trying it out. Once I get comfortable with it I'll see if the church want's to move forward. It won't cost them much at this point, they'll just have to supply some people to represent the church. I'll probably make an offer to UCP (United Cerebral Palsy) where we work. The have a child care and some adult day programs, it'll be good practice.
Holdcard
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RE: Using Photography for outreach - 1/29/2009 9:52:12 AM
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Holdcard
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I'll try to do a more complete inventory this time.
Softlight umbrella, stand, adapters etc.
30" reflector 5in1 kit, just got the stand for it.
Remote shutter release (wired)
D300
SB800
Decent tripod. It does the regular mount plus you can extend the camera laterally, but you have to weight the tripod.
24-120 VR lens
100-300 vr lens
105 Macro lens
Small light tent
2 100w color corrected lamps (bought for light tent, maybe other uses possible)
I think that's it...
Yes, the free part can be quite forgiving. I'm not going to be able to do the printing at this point but I can give them disks or upload to our gallery, or somewhere that they can order prints if they want.
Holdcard
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RE: Using Photography for outreach - 1/29/2009 9:22:56 PM
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TMeeks
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Holdcard
Facing left from my perspective or the models? Who's left or right?
Men face to your left. Here's a sample.
And, women either left or right. Here's another sample.
Both of the above images were taken using a single light having an attached 'Beauty Dish' and a single light above and back for the hair. The beauty dish creates a focused light with a lot more shadow than a softbox. You can see the beauty dish in the 'catch light' in the woman's eyes.
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I'm hoping this set up will help my macro images as well. I think that it will but I'm out of space here at the apartment. I'm going to plan on staying at the church after food ministry Saturday to work out these exercises.
It will help for both macro and portraits. I started out doing macro shots of my daughter's work and the lighting principles did not change for portraits. This may seem counter intuitive. But, put you light as close to the objects of your macro setup as you can get it. And, do the very same thing with the reflector on the other side. The closer you get the lights the softer the lighting.
Let me know how it goes.
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So do you teach? If not you should think about it, you're a natural.
Holdcard
That is a wonderful compliment! I was a teacher many, many years ago in the 1970s. I taught science in 7th, 8th and 9th. I loved it.
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RE: Using Photography for outreach - 1/30/2009 8:56:00 AM
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Holdcard
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This is totally off the subject of outreach, but still photography oriented.
Desert Botanical Gardens does a once a year butterfly exhibit, now that I have my macro lens (105mm) I want to get the best photos I can. It starts in March so I have a little time to get some instruction. The exhibit is in a large screen structure with lots of foliage and such, lots of varying light. We plan to go on a weekday so the crowd won't be as bad. Any suggestions for lighting, etc.? I'm not sure I want to bring in a tripod as the butterflies are loose and all over the place, you almost need a spotter to avoid stepping on them. I did buy a bean bag to steady the camera, it's designed for steadying a rifle, but the principle is the same. However there are not a lot of places in the exhibit to use to steady your shots.
I've seen something that looks like a soft box but much smaller (6-8 inches) and looks like it's designed to mount directly to the speedlight when it's mounted to the camera. Would something like that be best for this? Should I use the strobe mount along with the small soft box?
My wife has to get right home Saturday after food ministry Saturday because our respite provider has other obligations. So I may be there myself, I may or may not have a model to work with, a lot of people at the food ministry want to avoid the camera and I don't want them to feel pressured into anything. There are a few camera hogs there, but they don't come regularly. I'll probably bring some guns to do macro's of. Like you said the lighting principles don't change. Not the best of solutions but at least I'll get some hands on with the new equipment and techniques. My daughter and grand daughters may choose to stay so if they do I'll have models, the grand kids are hams when the camera comes out.
Looking at that site, it looks like they have a basic 2 light kit (250 watt) for about $250.00, would that be adequate or should I look for a higher wattage?
Thanks again,
Holdcard
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RE: Using Photography for outreach - 1/30/2009 2:18:31 PM
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TMeeks
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Let's start a new thread about butterfly shooting because a lot of people might have an interest in that that don't have an interest in portraits.
As for the lighting kit, I need to know the specific kit to be able to advise you about its capabilities. It's not that you need higher wattage; but, you ned that wattage in the right kit. Let me know exactly which one you are asking about.
A round ball is good enough to see the differences in the effects as you test your lighting. I initially used hair styling heads. If you find a beauty school, they may even donate a used one to you for your tests. But, beware, if you are stopped with a gun and a head in a bag it's not going to be easy to talk your way out of being taken on a little ride!!! 
Look in this set of photos to see some of the bizarre things I used to test my camera and various lighting techniques. A standard plunger is the best stand if you need to have a head on a stick for testing lighting. 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27657433@N08/sets/72157605578892457/
quote:
ORIGINAL: Holdcard
This is totally off the subject of outreach, but still photography oriented.
Desert Botanical Gardens does a once a year butterfly exhibit, now that I have my macro lens (105mm) I want to get the best photos I can. It starts in March so I have a little time to get some instruction. The exhibit is in a large screen structure with lots of foliage and such, lots of varying light. We plan to go on a weekday so the crowd won't be as bad. Any suggestions for lighting, etc.? I'm not sure I want to bring in a tripod as the butterflies are loose and all over the place, you almost need a spotter to avoid stepping on them. I did buy a bean bag to steady the camera, it's designed for steadying a rifle, but the principle is the same. However there are not a lot of places in the exhibit to use to steady your shots.
I've seen something that looks like a soft box but much smaller (6-8 inches) and looks like it's designed to mount directly to the speedlight when it's mounted to the camera. Would something like that be best for this? Should I use the strobe mount along with the small soft box?
My wife has to get right home Saturday after food ministry Saturday because our respite provider has other obligations. So I may be there myself, I may or may not have a model to work with, a lot of people at the food ministry want to avoid the camera and I don't want them to feel pressured into anything. There are a few camera hogs there, but they don't come regularly. I'll probably bring some guns to do macro's of. Like you said the lighting principles don't change. Not the best of solutions but at least I'll get some hands on with the new equipment and techniques. My daughter and grand daughters may choose to stay so if they do I'll have models, the grand kids are hams when the camera comes out.
Looking at that site, it looks like they have a basic 2 light kit (250 watt) for about $250.00, would that be adequate or should I look for a higher wattage?
Thanks again,
Holdcard
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RE: Using Photography for outreach - 1/30/2009 6:20:06 PM
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Holdcard
Posts: 269
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I like the head on a stick idea. I was seriously considering borrowing the life size CPR dummy from work. Styrofoam head on a stick will be a lot lighter and easier to carry multiples, we only have one life size dummy. I see a lot of potential for testing with this approach. I'll see if I can find some beauty school hand me downs to work with. Although it may look funny if a church member walks in while I'm doing a shoot. Oh well, I do the strange ministry anyway, maybe no one will even notice.
Just because I have a warped sense of humor, I was going to put the dummy in the front seat without a seatbelt just to see if I got stopped (Az. has a seatbelt law). Depending on the officers mood, it could be good for a laugh.
I'm really not sure of the brand or model. I've just seen other people using them. It looks like the rectangular soft box but only smaller. The flash was camera mounted (looked like a regular speedlight) with this this thing attached to it. Whenever I see other photographers I try to strike up a conversation, but this guy wasn't a talker so I didn't bother him.
Holdcard
< Message edited by Holdcard -- 1/30/2009 6:32:03 PM >
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RE: Using Photography for outreach - 1/31/2009 12:07:30 AM
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TMeeks
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New, the practice hair style heads are about $60. But, I bought mine for $15 each from a hair styling school. For a non-profit, I'm sure you could do better.
Before buying any lights, other than another SB800 or something like that, let me see there specs. Again, the Interfit EXD200 kit is my preference for a low cost kit because they have digital readouts that let you precisely control lighting ratios. They have relatively low-cost accessories and the Softlighter that you already have works very well with them.
Since you will probably have food around during your test, try shooting some fruits or vegetables. One trick is to arrange the items so that there is an odd number in the picture, not an even number. Fruit doesn't get tired or walk away. Then again, neither does a CPR dummy. 
Again, let me know how it goes. If you don't have a free Flickr site, you might want to get one. They don't mess with the photos to post them. I used to use Photobucket; but, they seemed to reprocess them losing something in the process. At Flickr they allow you to load full size images so that one can really get a sense of how to improve the images.
I started a new thread about shooting butterflies and put up some of my failures. 
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RE: Using Photography for outreach - 2/1/2009 1:47:42 AM
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PolarBear
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This next weekend I'm going with some guys to do some work on a Spanish-speaking church in Laredo, TX. They asked me to make a video of it to send to the denomination! I'll have the still camera also, and who knows, might be able to conjure up some interest in some portrait shoots of the local people. Won't have studio equipment with me though -- maybe not even my meager Photodiox light set.
Then I'll have a chance to bring this idea up with some of my church leaders. The main problem with implementing it here is that my church doesn't actually have its own building -- it uses a college art center for worship. We'll see if something can be worked out.
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RE: Using Photography for outreach - 2/1/2009 8:23:19 AM
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TMeeks
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PolarBear
This next weekend I'm going with some guys to do some work on a Spanish-speaking church in Laredo, TX. They asked me to make a video of it to send to the denomination! I'll have the still camera also, and who knows, might be able to conjure up some interest in some portrait shoots of the local people. Won't have studio equipment with me though -- maybe not even my meager Photodiox light set.
Which lighting do you have?
quote:
Then I'll have a chance to bring this idea up with some of my church leaders. The main problem with implementing it here is that my church doesn't actually have its own building -- it uses a college art center for worship. We'll see if something can be worked out.
If does help to have a permanent place. But, it really doesn't take much time to set up the portable backdrop and Interfit lights. It's certainly less than 30 minutes once you've done it the first time. And, that is if you are working alone. It's a 15 minute (or less) job with two people.
We've already had at least one visitor directly from this outreach. And, I believe that we have had more as God honors our desire to reach out beyond our walls. We had 3 different families visiting last week and we have not had that many visitors in MONTHS in the past. Why should He have sent visitors when our hearts were not ready?
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RE: Using Photography for outreach - 2/1/2009 8:41:08 AM
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Holdcard
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I've got to find some heads on a stick. Children are wonderful until you try to work with them. 
After an hour or so it gets me right here (Holdcard points to dull ache right behind his eyes).
There is a single mom that stayed to help, she's worked in a portrait studio before and had some great poses, and her kids were well practiced, they would strike a pose for, oh, say .004 seconds and move on. Oh well, I was working on lighting anyway. I did manage to get some pretty good shots and really didn't have much trouble dialing in the lighting (except my models kept walking away or moving, laying down, etc.)
My biggest concern was exposure, I didn't bring my gray card, and thought I had the white balance dialed in, This it the same building as the food ministry, except we were over closer to the curtains. I figured the same white balance settings would be fine but I wasn't really happy with it. That little preview display on the camera is great, but it will lie to you. Everyone else said they look great though. I'll post some of the photos on our gallery later, but they'll be in the family section so you'll actually have to join our gallery to see them. I have permission to share with a small group but not the entire Internet.
I'll post when the photo's sorted and up. I only used the first method, the clamshell would not have worked well with my mini models. I had trouble keeping all the stands upright in the first place. Once my grandkids got there things did settle down a bit after lunch. Single mom's kids are hyper to say the least. Both of our grand daughters are pretty good about posing, and holding a pose if it doesn't take that long.
Got more work to do that's for sure, but I"m pretty happy with the new equipment, Does exactly what you said it would. Thanks for the suggestions.
Holdcard
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RE: Using Photography for outreach - 2/1/2009 9:13:07 AM
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PolarBear
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Glad to know it is working for you!
I have an adjustable softbox with 9 (3x3) daylight balanced florescent bulbs. It does OK but for really reasonable lighting I should probably have a couple more of them. I am aware of reflectors but haven't really used them yet. (Bought materials to make a home-made one but still haven't made it ... )
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RE: Using Photography for outreach - 2/1/2009 11:06:43 AM
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Holdcard
Posts: 269
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Well, admittedly I've spent more on this hobby than I intended to years back. But I'm not sorry about anything I've bought recently. At some point I'll pick up some studio lighting, but for now I'm using my SB800 in remote mode. You have to get the reflector in the right place but it seemed to do the trick. Having a big light kit is the way to go in a studio, but for what I'm doing this will work fine until I can drop the money on some bigger lights.
I was actually surprised with how well the reflector worked. If you follow the links a few posts back, it shows the basic setup and results (and I'm just learning)
Holdcard
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RE: Using Photography for outreach - 2/2/2009 2:30:37 PM
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TMeeks
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quote:
I was actually surprised with how well the reflector worked.
Holdcard
It does make a big difference doesn't it. It also allows you to experiment with placement, etc. That's great to hear.
I promised a sample of the less expensive EXD200 lighting. The best thing to do is to send you to a post in DPReview were I have several samples and a comparison from the expensive lighting system.
By the way, the missionary in the Photo is Ron Free. He's is doing an amazing job in orchestrating the translation of the God's Story videos into the native languages of Africa.
Here is the link to the samples
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RE: Using Photography for outreach - 2/2/2009 5:27:47 PM
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TMeeks
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PolarBear
Glad to know it is working for you!
I have an adjustable softbox with 9 (3x3) daylight balanced florescent bulbs. It does OK but for really reasonable lighting I should probably have a couple more of them. I am aware of reflectors but haven't really used them yet. (Bought materials to make a home-made one but still haven't made it ... )
Consider it done. At least one.
I have at least one Bowens Tri-Lite that would match your light. Now that I have the strobes I can't foresee ever using it again. You may have it for free if you'd like. Just PM me. Along with just one reflector, it would give you three light sources. While the image on the Adorama site doesn't show it, mine has the connector for a softbox.
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20% of the town's families have responded! - 2/14/2009 11:57:43 AM
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TMeeks
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I know that it is uncomfortable for some to use business concepts for spiritual work. But, sometimes there is no better way to assess the success or failure of our efforts to reach out to be the Embassadors of Christ that we have been called to be.
When we started the our photography outreach, we had no person from the incorporated town in which the church is located actively attending the church. One person is now attending as a result of the outreach. This is 1% of the town's families since there are just over 100 homes in the family.
But, 20% of the town's families have responded to the offer and that should be a significant number for those churches struggling to find ways to build bridges with their neighbors.
But, what has been most enlightening to us as a church is that the town that we thought of as mostly elderly has undergone a transformation in the last few years and now has a significant number of young families. Just finding this out really demonstrated how easy it is for a church to isolate itself to the point where they do not understand the opportunity to bring Christ to a new group of people that has arrived.
The other aspect that has ben helpful is that we have learned a lot more about the interests of the town's people so that we can find OTHER ways to minister to them. The number of babies, for instance, could be an opportunity for sponsoring a regular luncheon for young mothers to get together.
This continues to be a remarkable and rewarding project.
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RE: 20% of the town's families have responded! - 3/2/2009 5:26:17 PM
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Holdcard
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Just wanted to let you know that I haven't fallen off the end of the earth. Life has presented some challenges lately, one of which was a computer meltdown. Got everything back (backups are my friend) and most of the stuff reinstalled.
Will post the exercise photos soon.
Holdcard
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RE: 20% of the town's families have responded! - 3/5/2009 12:24:41 PM
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Holdcard
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
I'm happy to hear from you. These things take time. So, I figured that sooner or later I'd hear back. Glad to see the computer is back up. That is something for which I have a LOT of empathy. I recently lost a RAID web server and it took WEEKS to get things back.
I lost my RAID at home (NAS) a few months back. Turned out I was using RAID 5 (I think) instead of RAID 1, so I lost everything. Now I have a triple redundant backup system. It's manual but I'm not going to let that happen again. Now I'm working on the little tweaks with the system so all the hard stuff is done.
I did a photo shoot for UCP I'll be posting on the gallery too when I get all the photos sorted out, with digital I tend to shoot a lot. Sorting is always one of the hardest parts for me.
Holdcard
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If You Want To POPULATE Heaven
You Have To PLUNDER Hell!!
4th Man Ministries
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RE: 20% of the town's families have responded! - 3/8/2009 12:14:19 PM
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Holdcard
Posts: 269
Joined: 1/14/2009
From: Phoenix, Arizona
Status: offline
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OK, I finally got the files sorted and uploaded to the gallery.
Like I said, you'll have to actually register. I put all the exercise photos in the exercise gallery and set the permissions so that only authorized members will see them. I also got the UCP photos up.
Gallery
Thanks again for the help, and if anyone else wants to get in on this training let me know and I"ll make our gallery available. The only problem I'd see is if it started getting too big, but as long as we clean up after each lesson/critique I don't see it being an issue.
Holdcard
_____________________________
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If You Want To POPULATE Heaven
You Have To PLUNDER Hell!!
4th Man Ministries
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