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RE: 20% of the town's families have responded! - 3/8/2009 10:52:50 PM
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TMeeks
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Holdcard
Gallery
Holdcard
Good first start since the light and reflector were essentially working to create a light side and a shadow side. But, both the light at the reflector need to be moved closer to the subject.
You want the light to be as big as possible relative to the subject(s). Moving the light back makes it smaller. Moving it close makes it bigger. I know that is counterintuitive, since it would seem that the beam from the light would seem to get bigger the farther back you go. But, we are talking about the size of the LIGHT SOURCE and not the size of the coverage.
Make sure that you either use the white or silver side of the reflector. There seems to be a color cast as if the reflector side was gold or the camera was set to the wrong White Balance setting.
It appeared to me that you were using the auto light setting of the Nikon's flashes. I would set the flash on manual and crank it all the way up, just using the camera to fire the flash. You seem to be shooting settings that indicate that the flash simply isn't putting out a high level.
Set the camera settings to ALL MANUAL. Start at 1/60th, ISO 400, f5.6 and change the f-stops until your picture's histogram shows a good balance... not too much to the far left or the far right. Don't let the camera decide anything.
The Nikon (or Canon) TTL flash system allows everything to float and that includes flash power, shutter speed, ISO and f-Stop, if we let it. It's tough to get a handle on your camera's choices with all that going on. Using Manual control of ALL the features in both flash and camera, we can change a single setting and see how things go.
Next time try moving the flash much closer to the subject. Turn the reflector until you can see the reflective side from your camera position. It looks angled too much toward the background. Think of a pool ball banking off the side of a pool table and set the angle of the reflector to bank the light right to the face.
One of the difficulties of learning while using a dedicated flash is that these flashes do not have a modeling light. But, you can use a lightbulb in a reflector or a strong flashlight to simulate the light to left you set up the reflector.
With that camera, try not to go above ISO 400. ISO 800 seems to be very noisy. Also, purchase a graycard (under $20) and shoot at least one frame with a gray card in the image so that it will be easier to white balance after the shoot.
Good start in spite of the camera's settings floating on you. You got the basis idea perfectly. Just move things around a bit, don't be afraid to get CLOSE with the lights and reflector and use MANUAL for everything. 
Thanks for going throught this. It should be very helpful for others.
< Message edited by TMeeks -- 3/8/2009 10:58:53 PM >
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RE: 20% of the town's families have responded! - 3/9/2009 9:12:28 AM
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Holdcard
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I had a feeling from the examples and links you provided that the light and reflector should have been much closer than they were. The other ladies children were pretty wild. When my grand kids got there they were good, but the other children were still running around uncontrolled. I was a little concerned about my equipment to be honest. I didn't want to get it too close to the kids and have them run it over. Actually the reflector was knocked over a few times. I positioned myself almost on top of the light for most of the shoot. Over all I think I learned a lot for a first shoot. I just wish I had a place of my own to set up in. At the church I never know who's going to be there.
White balance has always been a issue for me in that building. They have florescent lighting, but I"m guessing they are not all the same brand, wattage, etc. My previous cameras were not sensitive enough to matter, this one is. It took me a while to get dialed in to the larger part of the room, I used the same white balance settings when I did the exercise photos, but neglected to consider the fact that I was adding a different intensity light. That's how I learn, by making mistakes. I like that little screen on the camera to preview, but it doesn't always tell the whole story.
The silver side of the umbrella was what I was using, It was my fault for not just doing a white balance shot. I've got to look up again how to do that. I have a gray card but only had been taught how to use it for exposure not white balance. I'll try using the card next time. I'm not very adept in photo shop so for me it works better if I do it right the first time :-)
I've adjusted the flash while on the camera, but never even though about adjusting it in slave mode. I'll definitely have to give the a try. I also need to look up more about the manual modes, I've avoided them because I have only a basic understanding of what it does and how they work.
I had started the day dialing everything in by hand (that's my preferred method), by the end of the day I had resigned myself to simply trying to get the light placed correctly (or at least getting the same amount of light on each side). Those kids were quite a challenge to work with.
Thanks again,
Holdcard
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RE: 20% of the town's families have responded! - 3/9/2009 11:59:02 AM
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TMeeks
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Holdcard
I had a feeling from the examples and links you provided that the light and reflector should have been much closer than they were. The other ladies children were pretty wild. When my grand kids got there they were good, but the other children were still running around uncontrolled. I was a little concerned about my equipment to be honest. I didn't want to get it too close to the kids and have them run it over. Actually the reflector was knocked over a few times. I positioned myself almost on top of the light for most of the shoot. Over all I think I learned a lot for a first shoot. I just wish I had a place of my own to set up in. At the church I never know who's going to be there.
Having children running around wild is NOT helpful when setting up lights. At one sitting, one of the children in a family decided they were going to change the wallpaper on my computer and the parent, proudly looked on. The computer was behind me so I was lucky to catch them before they went on to more ambitious modifications. 
quote:
White balance has always been a issue for me in that building. They have florescent lighting, but I"m guessing they are not all the same brand, wattage, etc. My previous cameras were not sensitive enough to matter, this one is. It took me a while to get dialed in to the larger part of the room, I used the same white balance settings when I did the exercise photos, but neglected to consider the fact that I was adding a different intensity light. That's how I learn, by making mistakes. I like that little screen on the camera to preview, but it doesn't always tell the whole story.
The reason why different lighting sources affect your images is the color temperature. The bulbs in normal household lighting is around 3200 degrees Kelvin or 3200K. It's basically yellow and orange with very little blue in it. Fluorescent sources can be anything from 3200K (Warm White) to Cool-White which has a green cast. More recent fluorescent bulb are called full-spectrum or daylight balanced and they are in the 5000K - 6500K range.
Your flash is roughly in the 6000K range which is in the 'Cloudy Day' area of Daylight.
Next time, try setting your white balance to 'Flash' and see what happens.
quote:
The silver side of the umbrella was what I was using, It was my fault for not just doing a white balance shot. I've got to look up again how to do that. I have a gray card but only had been taught how to use it for exposure not white balance. I'll try using the card next time. I'm not very adept in photo shop so for me it works better if I do it right the first time :-)
You can either use the card to set a custom White Balance or in any photo program to correct any cast. It will be helpful for me to be able to see a shot with the card so that I can see what the ambiant light is doign to your images.
quote:
I've adjusted the flash while on the camera, but never even though about adjusting it in slave mode. I'll definitely have to give the a try. I also need to look up more about the manual modes, I've avoided them because I have only a basic understanding of what it does and how they work.
I had started the day dialing everything in by hand (that's my preferred method), by the end of the day I had resigned myself to simply trying to get the light placed correctly (or at least getting the same amount of light on each side).
That was the right strategy. Work with as few variables as possible. However, when leaving your camera in automatic and TTL flash the camera, itself, will keep introducing new variables. That is why manual is so important. There are always trade-offs as we make changes to our camera's settings. But, if we know what those trade-offs are, then we can make the best of them.
For instance, slowing down the shutter will make for a brighter picture. But, at the same time will introduce the potential for blurring due to movement. So, I generally set my shutter to at least 1/60th and mostly at 1/100th as my minimum shutter speed. With the full set of lights I shoot at 1/200s of a second. The reason I suggested 1/60th is that it should be fast enough to stop too much motion blur while allowing you to use the aperature settings to control brightness.
Start with 1/60th, ISO 400 and f-5.6.
If the picture is too bright, reduce ISO in steps down to 100. Only then do you start to increase the f-stop values.
If the picture is too dark, open up the f-Stop until 3.5 and only then begin to increase ISO.
The goal is to keep a constant shutter speed that allows you to work at the lowest ISO and an upper mid-range (5.6-11) f-stop. Only push to higher IOS if you have to. And, only go to a lower shutter speed if absolutely required to get a shot.
quote:
Those kids were quite a challenge to work with.
Thanks again,
Holdcard
Finally, is it you or the online photo site you are using that downsizes the images to WAY less resolution than the camera is able to deliver. It's hard to really see what is going on with such lo-res samples. The lack of sharpness, for instance, is puzzling for a D300.
< Message edited by TMeeks -- 3/9/2009 5:57:53 PM >
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RE: 20% of the town's families have responded! - 3/17/2009 9:07:50 PM
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Holdcard
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Just to quickly address your last line. I reset the gallery to not mess with the image at all (I think). I had it set to automatically re size the images to 1024 pixels (default) and a JPG quality of 80%. I reset the max size to 4288 which is what the camera does and set the JPG quality to 100%.
I added one full size image in the UCP section (you don't even have to log on). It's the latest image in the album of a go cart spinning into the grass at an event I photographed for UCP last weekend. It was a lot of fun but now I have over 2000 images to go through.
Let me know what you think.
Thanks
Holdcard
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RE: 20% of the town's families have responded! - 3/20/2009 10:30:10 PM
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TMeeks
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Holdcard
Just to quickly address your last line. I reset the gallery to not mess with the image at all (I think). I had it set to automatically re size the images to 1024 pixels (default) and a JPG quality of 80%. I reset the max size to 4288 which is what the camera does and set the JPG quality to 100%.
I added one full size image in the UCP section (you don't even have to log on). It's the latest image in the album of a go cart spinning into the grass at an event I photographed for UCP last weekend. It was a lot of fun but now I have over 2000 images to go through.
Let me know what you think.
Thanks
Holdcard
That's more like I expected to see. But, to reduce the noise even further, I'd try making a few changes to your shot setup. I assume you selected 1/1000 to stop the action and let the camera choose the aperature and maybe even the ISO.
I'd drop the ISO to 100, if possible on that camera, and reduce the shutter speed to 1/500, or so, which should be fast enough for most shots while keeping a relatively high f-stop to preserve your depth of field.
Every camera is different in the relative effects of ISO.
Filename: _3000033.JPG
Exposure Program: Shutter Priority
Exposure Time: 1/1000 sec
ISO: 250
FNumber: f 9
Focal length: 70 mm
Focus Mode: AF-C
ISO Setting: 250
Max Aperture: f 4.4
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RE: 20% of the town's families have responded! - 3/22/2009 9:40:30 AM
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Holdcard
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I wasn't sure if a shutter speed of 500 would stop the action. That 3" display is nice, but it lies to you. It may look great on the camera but when you put it on the monitor many times it's not so sharp or shows some movement blurring. Just to see if I'm on the right track, I do people (moving) between 100-125, if they are moving slow sometimes 80. Moving animals in (zoo stetting) anywhere from 100-250 depending on the animals movements.
They said the carts were hitting 40+ on the straightaways, In the turns they are going between 15-25. I started at the first turn then moved to the second because that's where they were spinning out.
I'll try the lower shutter setting, and your right I was using a shutter priority and had the ISO locked in at 250. First part of the day we had clouds moving in so that's why I went a little higher on the ISO. I'm just not fast enough to dial in each shot, the action was happening pretty fast. They requested that I get photos of each driver so it was pretty much 5 hours of clickety click click. (2800+ photos, that's a record for me). Each race had several drivers and teams, they each do a few laps and then pit to change drivers. Since I was too far from the pit to see when each team switched drivers I just planted myself and photographed each car as it went by. I have many, many duplicates but you can only tell when you look at them full size and even then there's some I can't be sure of. They want to put them all up on a site and let the drivers order their own photos if they want. I've had Costco print a few 8X10's and they've turned out pretty decent so far.
Nikon bottoms out at 200 ISO, but on the 300 (and up) they have a L1, (see Nikon's site for more) I should have thought to lower it once the clouds dissipated but didn't. I do actually know better and had the opportunity between races, just didn't think of it.
All the people at the Bondurant school (where the event took place) seemed like pretty good people. I think I'll contact them to see about getting permission to hang out and do some photos. When I'm not trying to catch every single car that goes by, I can push me and the camera to the limits and see what works and what doesn't (which seems to be the way I learn the best). I'll just give them the photos that turn out good and hopefully everyone will be happy.
On another note, the church is having a kind of a family fun day/open house/potluck on the 29th and have taken me up on my offer to do portraits. I'm still not sure about my new lighting set up, but I'll try to get in some practice before the event. The pastor is there most days so I can get into the room and play with some settings, lighting. etc. I guess the guy that did it in the past offered packages for sale, so it truly wasn't a gift from the church. just an opportunity for a discounted photo package.(I think he said they got one photo free but it was obvious he was selling packages) I told the pastor I'll just give him the disk and the photos are theirs to do with as they wish. They won't have to worry about copyrights they will own them. (Hey, do I need some kind of form to give the church?)
I'm even thinking of buying or renting some real lighting for the church on the family fun day, still not sure what God want's me to do.
Also doing a sweet 16 party In May for one of the families that helps us with the food ministry. It's a theme party (Phantom of the Opera) and everyone is supposed to come in costume so they thought it would be neat to get photos. I'm not sure how that's going to turn out, I may be able to set up lighting or not depending on space. Since it's a surprise party I won't really know the set up until I get there so I guess it'll be a real challenge for me.
Well I guess that's it for now, I'm still going through the Bondurant photos, already deleted about 1000 or so.
Thanks again for all the lessons, I really hope I'm not the only one following this.
Holdcard
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I did it - 3/25/2009 3:53:06 PM
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Holdcard
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I got a 2 light soft box kit today. That should make our portraits look much better. Although I may have to start charging a little here and there. I also may need to start selling off some of the stuff I've acquired.
I'm really excited about learning to use it. I also picked up a flash mounted soft box for my camera mounted flash. I'm thinking it will make a big difference with the macro photos of the butterfly exhibit. I already did some photos of Rapha (our dog) and there is quite a difference.
Hmmm....
I'm not on a learning curve, it's more like a learning cliff.
Holdcard
Edited to add link
< Message edited by Holdcard -- 3/25/2009 4:51:42 PM >
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RE: I did it - 3/25/2009 8:29:24 PM
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Holdcard
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I got the little soft box mounted and took a photo of our dog Rapha. We needed an updated 8X10 for the living room so this is the cropped version.
Although it doesn't list the ISO this was taken with the "L" setting and is supposed to be 100. Let me know what you think.
Thanks again,
Holdcard
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RE: I did it - 3/30/2009 10:02:50 AM
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Holdcard
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New exercises in the Gallery.
These are a few of the ones we did for the churches open house using the new lighting. I am really happy with the way they turned out. This is the first time I've been able to actually dial in the color temperature and it seemed perfect.
Holdcard
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RE: I did it - 4/2/2009 4:57:05 PM
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TMeeks
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Holdcard
I got the little soft box mounted and took a photo of our dog Rapha. We needed an updated 8X10 for the living room so this is the cropped version.
Although it doesn't list the ISO this was taken with the "L" setting and is supposed to be 100. Let me know what you think.
Thanks again,
Holdcard
Notice that you were able to shoot at 1/80th at f20. The f20 gave you a wide depth of field, which ensures focus. Now try to increase the speed and drop the f-Stop to about f8 and see if you can get the dog in shaprly and the background slightly out of focus. This draws the attention on Rapha.
The lighing is much nicer and softer than you were getting with a bare flash. Diffusion makes a big difference, doesn't it?
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RE: I did it - 4/2/2009 5:12:20 PM
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TMeeks
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This is GREAT news!
300w/s lights are perfect for outreach portrait work. With your camera and flash combo, you should be able to use the flash as a slave and make it the 'hair light', giving you THREE lights for shooting.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Holdcard
I got a 2 light soft box kit today. That should make our portraits look much better. Although I may have to start charging a little here and there. I also may need to start selling off some of the stuff I've acquired.
I'm really excited about learning to use it. I also picked up a flash mounted soft box for my camera mounted flash. I'm thinking it will make a big difference with the macro photos of the butterfly exhibit. I already did some photos of Rapha (our dog) and there is quite a difference.
Hmmm....
I'm not on a learning curve, it's more like a learning cliff.
Holdcard
Edited to add link
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RE: I did it - 4/2/2009 5:45:04 PM
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Holdcard
Posts: 269
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
This is GREAT news!
300w/s lights are perfect for outreach portrait work. With your camera and flash combo, you should be able to use the flash as a slave and make it the 'hair light', giving you THREE lights for shooting.
I've even got a stand for it, things are happening very fast for me now a days. I'm hoping it's a God thing and not a "me" thing.
I've got a lot of playing (experimenting) to do with all the new equipment. The 8X10 of Rapha is hanging in the living room already. I'll keep playing with depth of field. It seems that every new little part of something I learn is opening up a lot more doors (and questions).
I also picked up an Expodisc for white balance. I really like that little gadget, It's a whole lot easier and accurate than using the gray card.
Holdcard
< Message edited by Holdcard -- 4/2/2009 5:56:02 PM >
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RE: I did it - 4/5/2009 11:03:44 PM
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TMeeks
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Thanks for the new link.
What a HUGE improvement!!! Looking GOOD!!!
I love the use of the foliage. It really helps to give the photos some warmth. And, the lighting is getting MUCH better.
Here some additional things to try.
1) Move the subjects at least 5 feet from the background and use a LOWER f-stop so that the background becomes out of focus. You want the focus to only be on your subject and that means that you want other objects, like the background and foliage to be at least slightly out of focus.
2) Your lighting is very nice; but, it may be a little too even. Try lowering the light level on one side to about 2/3 power of the dominant side.
3) Try not to pose people head-on. Always pose with the body at an angle and the head looking toward the camera. Angle the piano bench. Turn women facing their left and mean facing to their right. You've got it on the photos with the man and boy. It's also nice in file 14, where the little girl is looking to her left. Note the shadow on the left side is very nice in that picture. If you cropped that to just the head and upper body it would be wonderful. Here is how I would crop it for an 8x10.
4) Try using your Nikon flash from BEHIND and to one side for a hair light. That will help separate the subject from the background. With just two lights, the subjects can seem a part of the background. Next time I shoot, perhaps I can remember to take the same photo with and without a hair (or 'rim') light.
But, all in all these new photos show big steps in the right direction from the starting place. Nice job!
I wondered how the Expodiscs worked. If you used it for the photos then they work very well. The colors are very nice.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Holdcard
quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
This is GREAT news!
300w/s lights are perfect for outreach portrait work. With your camera and flash combo, you should be able to use the flash as a slave and make it the 'hair light', giving you THREE lights for shooting.
I've even got a stand for it, things are happening very fast for me now a days. I'm hoping it's a God thing and not a "me" thing.
I've got a lot of playing (experimenting) to do with all the new equipment. The 8X10 of Rapha is hanging in the living room already. I'll keep playing with depth of field. It seems that every new little part of something I learn is opening up a lot more doors (and questions).
I also picked up an Expodisc for white balance. I really like that little gadget, It's a whole lot easier and accurate than using the gray card.
Holdcard
_____________________________
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RE: I did it - 4/6/2009 10:19:41 AM
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Holdcard
Posts: 269
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Really pleased with the results I've been getting. I keep bouncing from one thing to another and at this point, it all seems fascinating to me and I'm hoping not to loose that. I wish I had the space to do more work with the portrait lighting. As it is now the church is the only place I have the room to set up. Been reading up a little on composition the last few days. It seems like everything I learn leads me into something new or a revisit of something I can do better with the new knowledge.
I didn't use the Expodisc on the portraits at the church, I dialed in the white balance to the temperature of the lighting 5600k. I did mess with the Expodisc in a few places I've had problems before and it seems to work very well. You can only go so far with a gray card (maybe I'm not using it right), but the Expodisc seems to do a better job and makes dialing it in at each setting (even in the same room) very easy and quick.
Which side of the lighting should be dominant? I've been working so hard on getting my lighting smooth and even this is a new concept for me. Will the dominant lighting change male vs female? I'll try to search out some lighting sites and try to get a feel for what you're saying. I know portrait lighting is very new for me.
Yesterday we did the butterfly exhibit with the grand kids. It was very busy so I couldn't set up the tripod. I used the strobe mount and mini soft box. didn't do too bad considering I was doing hand held macro shots. Today I'm going back, they said in the early afternoon it's pretty quiet so I'm hoping they'll let me set up the tripod. If I can, I should be able to get some great shots. With the tripod I'll probably forgo the strobe mount and just attach the flash to the camera (with the soft box) and be able to use the shutter release. Probably take a little time for me to get it all dialed in. If they turn out really well I'll post some of them in the gallery, if not I'm sure I'll learn something :-)
Holdcard
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RE: I did it - 4/8/2009 11:55:56 PM
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Holdcard
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I got the butterfly photos up. I did reduce the size for space, they still look pretty good. I can always put the full size photo up if you need to see it. The first bunch was done freehand, the second day I was able to use the tripod(as long as I only used one leg) They only allow monopods.
One of the Bondurant employees is following me on Twitter, I sent him a message asking him who to contact to get permission to photograph there.
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RE: I did it - 4/13/2009 7:34:52 AM
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PolarBear
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We may be getting ready to try this. I think I have a couple other photographers in the church interested, and we'll be talking more about it soon. Thanks for all the info!
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RE: I did it - 4/13/2009 9:23:37 AM
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Holdcard
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I don't know if the church will do it, but I have an idea. Our ministry draws mainly homeless and the really poor. In the past the church has hosted haircut days and allowed people to shave and clean up on the grounds. I was thinking if we hit up some of the thrift stores for some suits etc. we could let them "dress up" and do the photos that day while they are clean and more presentable. I noticed many people did not want to be photographed while looking so grubby (and I understand).
This time the church has really run behind printing the photos, I think next time I'll see if I can get someone to burn the CD's on the spot. That way they have them rite away and can email them to friends and family from the library or someone other computer. The person burning the CD's could also help to organize the files for the church.
Holdcard
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RE: I did it - 4/21/2009 4:31:38 PM
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Holdcard
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No rush on my account. I figure when it's time you'll be around. (it's a God thing)
Holdcard
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RE: I did it - 5/10/2009 12:30:20 PM
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Holdcard
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Joined: 1/14/2009
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I did a photo shoot for some of our ministry helpers. Their daughter had a "Phantom Of The Opera" themed sweet 16 party.
I only posted 4 of them, the ones with masks. So you'll have log in. I think I did OK. This time I set up all on my own.
Note to self, next time bring 2 cameras.
I should have brought a second camera to do the candid shots but didn't think of that until it was too late.
Holdcard
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RE: I did it - 5/11/2009 10:52:51 PM
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TMeeks
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Holdcard
I did a photo shoot for some of our ministry helpers. Their daughter had a "Phantom Of The Opera" themed sweet 16 party.
The image with the 3 girls would be awesome if cropped. They are all much better than the first ones you posted. MUCH better.
To improve these images even further bring the subjects at least 5 feet out from the background. You want the background to be out of focus so that all the attention is on the subjects. It also allows you to light them from slightly behind to separate them from the background even more.
I was shooting this weekend with a 70-200mm lens having a 2X extender, giving me 400mm when fully zoomed in. That combination really narrows the depth of field to isolate the subject from the background. Here are some photos from this past weekend. Some show the isolation that I am talking about. DOF is controlled by both zoom factor and aperature.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27657433@N08/sets/72157617928263307/
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RE: I did it - 5/12/2009 11:35:13 AM
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Holdcard
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I know what your saying (I think). Unfortunately I was only given a small area to work in. I have tried reducing the DOF on some shots at the Botanical Gardens with limited success, I still have some learning to do. Maybe I should get one of those pocket slide rule thingys that helps you calculate the DOF. It would give me a place to start until I get a feel for it. I'll have to try using the longer lens and maybe look into an extender. I could have used the 105mm macro lens, wonder how that would have worked. I also have a 70-300mm lens. I really would like to have a place to set up and practice, so far a lot of my practice is on the job so to speak.
I've come to realize that doing a photo shoot (especially a free one) is a lot like buying a used car. You tell them what you need and they promise to meet your needs and expectations. However when you get the car home you find out it's not all they made it out to be. Maybe I should start charging, then people would want to get their moneys worth and listen a little better to the photographer. I have no idea what to charge or what to offer. My family and some friends keep telling me that I should go pro, but I don't think I am ready yet. Granted I'm getting closer but not there yet.
What makes it a little more frustrating for me in this case is that they are photographers. They've done weddings portraits etc. He's helped some, but is content to be an average photographer, so they are pleased with average shots and that's the way the set up the space for me to use. They set it all up intending on average shots. I'm sure all the photos will look good in a scrap book which is all they were after. Although most are satisfied with average shots, I am not. I may never be featured in any photography magazines but I do want to be the best I can be and give the best gift I can.
I liked the photos you posted, my favorites are the shelf with the multicolored pots and the sphere. On the sphere shot are you looking through the sphere or is that a reflection back at you? If it is a reflection where did you put the camera?
On the image with the 3 girls, where would you have cropped it? Just the faces?
Thanks again,
Holdcard
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If You Want To POPULATE Heaven
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