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cloning is ok i think - 1/7/2009 2:48:07 PM
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goth4life
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cloning of humans and species is ok as long as they are rebirthed as a baby or kkid
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RE: cloning is ok i think - 1/9/2009 1:32:42 AM
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E_Lin
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The moral implications of cloning humans is staggering, and it amazes me how many people don't stop to consider all the ramnifications. I personally don't see that cloning of humans is evil, or wrong, in and of itself. Actually I would be curious to see if a cloned human has a soul. Probably so, since it would be a seperate sentient entity.
I would wonder about the motives of the ones doing the cloning. And if the results would be kept accessible to the public. I could see, just like in a sci-fi movie, a time in the future where some wealthy individuals have clones made of themselves and family to have ready made organ donors or something just as sinister.
I read a great couple of books last year that had cloning as a regular part of human society. Essentially, death was done away with (at least for those who could afford it) by having clones made of yourself and kept in stasis. The technology was advanced enough that a small chip was kept at the base of everyone's brain that recorded your life's experiences, and at the time of death, that chip was removed and downloaded into the "new" body. Humanity had achieved immortality. There were also others who kept cloned bodies on different planets, so that all they had to do was download their consciousness and send it through space to their other bodies. I believe the book was titled "Altered Carbon" by author Richard K. Morgan. It was an interesting look into one of humanity's possible futures.
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RE: cloning is ok i think - 1/9/2009 2:32:56 PM
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rjd628
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quote:
ORIGINAL: EFLin
The moral implications of cloning humans is staggering, and it amazes me how many people don't stop to consider all the ramnifications. I personally don't see that cloning of humans is evil, or wrong, in and of itself. Actually I would be curious to see if a cloned human has a soul. Probably so, since it would be a seperate sentient entity.
I would wonder about the motives of the ones doing the cloning. And if the results would be kept accessible to the public. I could see, just like in a sci-fi movie, a time in the future where some wealthy individuals have clones made of themselves and family to have ready made organ donors or something just as sinister.
I read a great couple of books last year that had cloning as a regular part of human society. Essentially, death was done away with (at least for those who could afford it) by having clones made of yourself and kept in stasis. The technology was advanced enough that a small chip was kept at the base of everyone's brain that recorded your life's experiences, and at the time of death, that chip was removed and downloaded into the "new" body. Humanity had achieved immortality. There were also others who kept cloned bodies on different planets, so that all they had to do was download their consciousness and send it through space to their other bodies. I believe the book was titled "Altered Carbon" by author Richard K. Morgan. It was an interesting look into one of humanity's possible futures.
'Spares' by Michael Marshall Smith predates 'Altered Carbon' by a good few years - I'd recommend it. The hypothesis of Spares only requires that cloning be possible, no other fancy tech like in AC.
I don't think cloning itself is necessarily unethical - but it creates could create an openening for the unethical to do some truly horrible things. Guns don't kill people and all that...
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RE: cloning is ok i think - 1/10/2009 1:25:55 AM
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E_Lin
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quote:
'Spares' by Michael Marshall Smith predates 'Altered Carbon' by a good few years - I'd recommend it. The hypothesis of Spares only requires that cloning be possible, no other fancy tech like in AC.
I don't think cloning itself is necessarily unethical - but it creates could create an openening for the unethical to do some truly horrible things. Guns don't kill people and all that...
I agree. Thank you for the recommendation. I will see if I can get that from my library. Although I do have to admit I love the fancy tech in "Altered Carbon". And its sequel.
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RE: cloning is ok i think - 1/10/2009 8:16:52 PM
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drmark
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quote:
cloning of humans and species is ok as long as they are rebirthed as a baby or kkid Are you making the distinction by this comment "rebirthed as a baby" between reproductive cloning and therapeutic cloning? What about the possibility of using a cloned child for spare parts as described above? How do you feel about that, goth4life? Also, scientists clone all kinds of plant species for food sources. At what level of species complexity would you draw the line for "okay cloning"?
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Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: cloning is ok i think - 1/12/2009 4:55:06 PM
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DanJames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
cloning of humans and species is ok as long as they are rebirthed as a baby or kkid Are you making the distinction by this comment "rebirthed as a baby" between reproductive cloning and therapeutic cloning? What about the possibility of using a cloned child for spare parts as described above? How do you feel about that, goth4life? Also, scientists clone all kinds of plant species for food sources. At what level of species complexity would you draw the line for "okay cloning"?
Right, or to put it another way: There's "cloning", and then there's "cloning", and the two are not to be confused. What you see on the movie Multiplicity is a wildly fictitious form of cloning and is, in my opinion unethical only in the sense that the methods haven't been perfected. Clones of other animals have horribly short and unhealthy lives due to the fact that old DNA is being used to make a new organism. If the method could be perfected and the DNA could be manipulated to not reflect its old age, conceivably a healthy clone could be born. I personally don't think that this is unethical. You've probably met a clone in your life. Identical twins are clones in the same way that a baby born in this manner would be a clone.
But then there's therapeutic cloning. This is where a new life is formed for the purpose of extracting its stem cells to be used for medicinal purposes. In the case of humans it is, in fact, the harvesting of human beings for spare parts. Another you could conceivably be made and the stem cells from the baby you are extracted, and the baby you would die as a result.
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RE: cloning is ok i think - 1/30/2009 3:36:04 AM
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AlwaysChelle
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I will not presume to say whether our cloning humans is okay. Did God clone humans? Possibly. Afterall, Adam was fashioned from earth and had a gift that previous man whom were created on God's 6th day of creation; that gift being the breath of God. Mankind born in God's 6th day of creation were fashioned in his image, yes, but did not have the gift of God's breath whom I take to be the Holy Spirit. From Adam's rib Eve was created, not born, but created. The rest of us were born and many of us have God's Holy Spirit. Evolution does not have to compete with Creationism and I see them as two parts to the big whole.
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RE: cloning is ok i think - 1/30/2009 7:50:47 AM
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drmark
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quote:
Did God clone humans? Possibly.
quote:
From Adam's rib Eve was created, not born, but created. Interesting thought, AC. But this would only apply to Eve, not multiple humans, unless you have Scripture that shows otherwise. The problem with considering Eve's creation to be some form of cloning is that her genome was substantially different from Adam's, so God would have had to create new DNA.
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Mankind born in God's 6th day of creation were fashioned in his image, yes, but did not have the gift of God's breath whom I take to be the Holy Spirit. How do you understand Genesis 2:7?
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Evolution does not have to compete with Creationism and I see them as two parts to the big whole. Could you cite a verse of Scripture that you feel supports evolution, AC?
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: cloning is ok i think - 2/2/2009 10:18:46 PM
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navyblueret
Posts: 1970
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A better question might be: When we clone a human, will God give that new cloned human it's own Soul, or does it share with the 'original,' or does that new human even have a Soul????????
God made us each, as a one time, one use, being, with not one other person exactly like ourselves. That is why the DNA 'short-lives' a clone.
Are we so afraid of graduating to God, we would make a duplicate, to extend our lives by killing the duplicate?
If so, SHAME ON US.
Think hard on it, folks, brothers and sisters. Your eternity may well rest on your mindset.
Whew,,,,,,I even scared myself with that suggestion.
In Messiah, His Shalom, and perfection in wisdom. Arley
_____________________________
In the name of 'THE' Mashiach, Man the wall, set the watch, sound the Shofar. Our redemption draws nigh.
Messiah, my Captain, and Helmsman.
(Joh 14:6 KJV) ... I am the way, the truth, and the life: ...
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RE: cloning is ok i think - 2/3/2009 7:45:06 AM
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DanJames
Posts: 863
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quote:
ORIGINAL: navyblueret
A better question might be: When we clone a human, will God give that new cloned human it's own Soul, or does it share with the 'original,' or does that new human even have a Soul????????
God made us each, as a one time, one use, being, with not one other person exactly like ourselves. That is why the DNA 'short-lives' a clone.
Are we so afraid of graduating to God, we would make a duplicate, to extend our lives by killing the duplicate?
If so, SHAME ON US.
Think hard on it, folks, brothers and sisters. Your eternity may well rest on your mindset.
Whew,,,,,,I even scared myself with that suggestion.
In Messiah, His Shalom, and perfection in wisdom. Arley
I don't think we have any reason to believe that a "clone" that we create will indeed be a living soul. Identical twins are clones, except that when God makes clones, He does it right! I don't think that we can justify, as you have rightly put, cloning ourselves for the sake of killing the duplicate and using him or her for spare parts. That would be like one twin killing the other for a liver transplant.
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