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RE: Why did God kill people in the Bible? - 3/14/2009 12:46:44 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WesP
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: WesP
Exactly! Everyone has a choice. If you choose other than God, He still has His plan, and you WILL fit into it whether you like it not.
So if everyone went to one side of the ship so to speak that would still fit into the plans of God?
I do not see how you get that interpretation of what I said. No one can go against God's will. He will make you fit into His plan however He needs to.
So then man doesn't really have a choice...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Why did God kill people in the Bible? - 3/14/2009 2:02:03 PM
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JStucki76
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: WesP
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: WesP
Exactly! Everyone has a choice. If you choose other than God, He still has His plan, and you WILL fit into it whether you like it not.
So if everyone went to one side of the ship so to speak that would still fit into the plans of God?
I do not see how you get that interpretation of what I said. No one can go against God's will. He will make you fit into His plan however He needs to.
So then man doesn't really have a choice...
Well, this may be a discussion for a different thread, but the way I see it, man has a choice, but no matter what I choose, God always knew I was going to choose that. It is impossible to mess up his plan or to surprise him. His will is for his plan to succeed, and his plan cannot fail, so his will is unstoppable. It's not that I don't have a choice, it's more that from his perspective, all my choices have already been made. No matter which way I choose, I'm playing right into his hands, because while he didn't make the choice for me, he planned for me to make it.
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RE: Why did God kill people in the Bible? - 3/14/2009 3:45:51 PM
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His_4_Ever
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Simple answer, God only killed those populations who had knowledge and understanding of him, but rejected him. I believe the babies and children who would've not probably had knowledge and understanding of God were found to be innocent in his sight. He had to kill them as well, because he had to wipe the wickedness of entire populations belief systems from planet. If these innocents had grown up, I am sure they would have wanted to know the history and beliefs of the people they orginated from, just like adopted children want to know where they came from. If they found out they might have tried to continue the belief systems of their parentage, thus re-establishing the wiped out populations belief systems, which were wicked in God eye's. Killing the babies and children was the only way God could save them. Maybe my answer isn't so simple after all.
< Message edited by His_4_Ever -- 3/14/2009 3:57:15 PM >
_____________________________
I asked the wise man on the mountain what the secret of a long life was.....and now I would like to pass on his words of wisdom to you.
("Keep breathing as long as possible!")
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RE: Why did God kill people in the Bible? - 3/15/2009 1:01:14 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: His_4_Ever
Simple answer, God only killed those populations who had knowledge and understanding of him, but rejected him. I believe the babies and children who would've not probably had knowledge and understanding of God were found to be innocent in his sight. He had to kill them as well, because he had to wipe the wickedness of entire populations belief systems from planet. If these innocents had grown up, I am sure they would have wanted to know the history and beliefs of the people they orginated from, just like adopted children want to know where they came from. If they found out they might have tried to continue the belief systems of their parentage, thus re-establishing the wiped out populations belief systems, which were wicked in God eye's. Killing the babies and children was the only way God could save them. Maybe my answer isn't so simple after all.
So not only does faith come by hearing the word, it as well comes by the sword? Doesn't Islam teach what you are suggesting?
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Why did God kill people in the Bible? - 3/15/2009 1:08:59 PM
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GodsMusic
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quote:
ORIGINAL: godsend221
I don't believe it's wrong to ask questions. God gave me a mind and an intellect and i'm going to use it. Why did God tell the israelites to kill people yet we criticize the Muslims for doing it. The jews killed because God told them to and that's what the muslims are doing. Why didn't God do all the killing himself?
Simple. God had reason and AUTHORITY to do so. The Muslims don't. Why would anyone equate what God told the Israelites to do in the Old Testament with what the Muslims are doing today?
Honestly your questioning is suspect, and the first word in your post is a DEAD GIVEAWAY. You said "IF" God is so loving. Friend, God IS so loving period.
As Job said, the Lord giveth and the LORD taketh away. Blessed be the name of the Lord.
Let me also add that I think Poster Doug Horton has made the best statement in this thread:
quote:
ORIGINAL: Doug Horton
Every human being is a sinner, including you and me.
None of us are innocent and every one of us deserves to be wiped off the planet.
The real question should be why does He allow so many guilty people to live long lives and die peaceably.
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RE: Why did God kill people in the Bible? - 3/15/2009 4:26:47 PM
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His_4_Ever
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: His_4_Ever
Simple answer, God only killed those populations who had knowledge and understanding of him, but rejected him. I believe the babies and children who would've not probably had knowledge and understanding of God were found to be innocent in his sight. He had to kill them as well, because he had to wipe the wickedness of entire populations belief systems from planet. If these innocents had grown up, I am sure they would have wanted to know the history and beliefs of the people they orginated from, just like adopted children want to know where they came from. If they found out they might have tried to continue the belief systems of their parentage, thus re-establishing the wiped out populations belief systems, which were wicked in God eye's. Killing the babies and children was the only way God could save them. Maybe my answer isn't so simple after all.
So not only does faith come by hearing the word, it as well comes by the sword? Doesn't Islam teach what you are suggesting?
Whose talking about faith here? The babies and children would be to young to even know what faith is. Weren't the Israelites going by faith when God commanded them to slaughter everyone including babies and children. Would not be living by the sword, so it seems to me your the one making God's teaching's out to be Islam?
< Message edited by His_4_Ever -- 3/15/2009 4:44:48 PM >
_____________________________
I asked the wise man on the mountain what the secret of a long life was.....and now I would like to pass on his words of wisdom to you.
("Keep breathing as long as possible!")
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RE: Why did God kill people in the Bible? - 3/15/2009 10:06:41 PM
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awepro
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quote:
Are you suggesting that Grace and Mercy were not evident in the OT?
Not at all.
Look at Jonah. He disobeyed the Lord when he called Jonah to go to Nineveh and preach "go to Nineveh, that great city, and cry out against it; for their wickedness has come up before Me" (NKJV, Jon 1:2). His hatred for the people of Nineveh was a sin and made God angry. While "in the belly of the fish" he had a long thinking about his situation he cried out to the Lord. God had mercy on him, "spoke to the fish, and it vomited Jonah onto dry land". Then it came home to him what he was required to do and obeyed.
This is just one example. However, the real stubborn ones were lost. The original question was "Why did God kill people in the Bible?" Because they were stubborn sinners who turned away from God completely.
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RE: Why did God kill people in the Bible? - 3/16/2009 1:26:28 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: His_4_Ever
Whose talking about faith here? The babies and children would be to young to even know what faith is.
There is salvation apart from faith in God?
quote:
Weren't the Israelites going by faith when God commanded them to slaughter everyone including babies and children. Would not be living by the sword, so it seems to me your the one making God's teaching's out to be Islam?
It would only be living "by" the sword if they acted on their own behalf... It's not the USE of the sword, it's why and for what purpose...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Why did God kill people in the Bible? - 3/16/2009 1:28:21 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: awepro
This is just one example. However, the real stubborn ones were lost. The original question was "Why did God kill people in the Bible?" Because they were stubborn sinners who turned away from God completely.
What of Job's servants who were killed in his fields for apparently no other reason than being servants of Job?
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Why did God kill people in the Bible? - 3/16/2009 2:18:04 PM
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JStucki76
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Luke 13:1-9 is a great illustration of the fact that sometimes death isn't a punishment for anything in particular.
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RE: Why did God kill people in the Bible? - 3/16/2009 2:30:38 PM
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blue1914
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quote:
ORIGINAL: godsend221
If God is so loving, why did he kill innocent people in the Old Testament?
quote:
If God is so loving, why did he kill innocent people in the Old Testament?
I guess the first part of the question is to get a clarification-can you define exactly what you mean by "innocent" people?
From a worldly paradigm, there are "innocent" people - women, children, etc. who have as their only sin being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
In the Word of God however, we learn that ALL are evil through and through:
Romans 3:9-12 (NCV)
9 So are we Jews better than others? No! We have already said that Jews and those who are not Jews are all guilty of sin.
10 As the Scriptures say:
"There is no one who always does what is right,
not even one.
11 There is no one who understands.
There is no one who looks to God for help.
12 All have turned away.
Together, everyone has become useless.
There is no one who does anything good;
there is not even one." — Psalm 14:1–3
That said, it changes the question away from "why are the innocent killed" to "why are the evil spared". We get an answer to that in the word of God as well.
2 Peter 3:9 (New Century Version)
9 The Lord is not slow in doing what he promised—the way some people understand slowness. But God is being patient with you. He does not want anyone to be lost, but he wants all people to change their hearts and lives.
Long and short - All "life" as we know it is a gift of God, not an inherent right that we are entitled too. A humanistic view of course believes the opposite.
If your is a humanistic view, none of these words will convince you and this is a straw man argument that you have put up to try to prove that God is not merciful. If that is your point of view, in your own eyes you are correct.
If, on the other hand, you desire to truly know of God what He feels about it all, don't worry about WHY He does what He does - if He is God, your ability to figure him out kind of nullifies his effectiveness, wouldn't you say? - instead, learn and understand WHAT He does.
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RE: Why did God kill people in the Bible? - 3/17/2009 2:59:27 AM
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His_4_Ever
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I think the answer can best be found in Isaiah 14:21.
21 Prepare slaughter for his children
Because of the iniquity of their fathers,
Lest they rise up and possess the land,
And fill the face of the world with cities.”
_____________________________
I asked the wise man on the mountain what the secret of a long life was.....and now I would like to pass on his words of wisdom to you.
("Keep breathing as long as possible!")
SIH Perm. Blocked
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RE: Why did God kill people in the Bible? - 3/17/2009 10:55:26 AM
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bob97
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Why do we look at death thinking that this life is all that is? We play around with these concepts without even an inkling of Gods thoughts or plans.
I for one don't question what God has done because it is beyond my understanding. I am quite thankful for Gods providence in my life...that He has blessed me and I don't have an answer for this either. I just know that to this date He continues to do so.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Why did God kill people in the Bible? - 3/17/2009 2:03:02 PM
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rawr.ben
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quote:
ORIGINAL: awepro
quote:
Are you suggesting that Grace and Mercy were not evident in the OT?
Not at all.
Fair enough. I apologize if my remark seemed to be pointed. I wasn't trying to accuse. It was sincere, but I later did question if it sounded like it was a weighted question.
quote:
The original question was "Why did God kill people in the Bible?" Because they were stubborn sinners who turned away from God completely.
And yet, other stubborn sinners are given an new opportunity.
And yet, some who were not stubborn sinners were still killed at the hands of God.
I'm not disagreeing, but I am thinking there may be a bit more to the puzzle yet. Pieces that we may not find on this side of heaven.
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rawr.ben
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RE: Why did God kill people in the Bible? - 3/17/2009 2:57:49 PM
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Christfollower2000
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I have posed this question elsewhere, but if God killed the babies in the OT then how can anyone claim that he wouldn't be doing it today through abortion? How can we claim to know God's higher purpose for us when there he is responsible for so much killing in the past? Will anyone conclusively claim that they know God is not using abortion for some higher purpose?
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RE: Why did God kill people in the Bible? - 3/17/2009 3:02:36 PM
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His_4_Ever
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Christfollower2000
I have posed this question elsewhere, but if God killed the babies in the OT then how can anyone claim that he wouldn't be doing it today through abortion? How can we claim to know God's higher purpose for us when there he is responsible for so much killing in the past? Will anyone conclusively claim that they know God is not using abortion for some higher purpose?
Well, for one thing God directly commanded the killing of babies and children in the OT. I have yet to hear anyone claim God directly commanded them to get an abortion today.
_____________________________
I asked the wise man on the mountain what the secret of a long life was.....and now I would like to pass on his words of wisdom to you.
("Keep breathing as long as possible!")
SIH Perm. Blocked
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RE: Why did God kill people in the Bible? - 3/17/2009 3:30:11 PM
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Christfollower2000
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quote:
ORIGINAL: His_4_Ever
quote:
ORIGINAL: Christfollower2000
I have posed this question elsewhere, but if God killed the babies in the OT then how can anyone claim that he wouldn't be doing it today through abortion? How can we claim to know God's higher purpose for us when there he is responsible for so much killing in the past? Will anyone conclusively claim that they know God is not using abortion for some higher purpose?
Well, for one thing God directly commanded the killing of babies and children in the OT. I have yet to hear anyone claim God directly commanded them to get an abortion today.
So are you saying that if someone claimed that God commanded them to get an abortion you would then accept this as evidence of God approving abortion? Has God done anything outside of what is written in the Bible? Or can we only be sure that he did those things in the Bible because they are written down? Christians have claimed all sorts of interesting things about God, for example that he supported segregation, hates gays, caused Hurricane Katrina to punish people...etc. Is one's claim that God made them do something evidence that God made them do it?
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RE: Why did God kill people in the Bible? - 3/17/2009 4:07:42 PM
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solarflare
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quote:
What I'm questionning is that it seems improbable/unbelievable that every single person apart from Noah and his family deserved to die.
That's NOT what Scripture says. Noah was the ONLY righteous man God found.
quote:
When everyone perished in the great flood, except Noah and his family; are we to believe that the whole world was wicked and all deserved to perish? Every single one of them? Noah and his family were the only unblemished creatures in the whole world worthy to be saved?
Please read Genesis 6......the WHOLE earth was corrupt.....
If only people would actually BELIEVE what the words say and stop interpreting things because they
1. Don't like it and think God is harsh
2. They would have done it different
3. They just will not believe that God is so MEAN!!! (he's not...but it is how some people see Him)
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RE: Why did God kill people in the Bible? - 3/17/2009 4:10:56 PM
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solarflare
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quote:
Why did God kill people in the Bible?
SIN kills people.
You may recall God warning Adam and Eve : Gen. 2:17
Mankind has been winding down ever since........
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RE: Why did God kill people in the Bible? - 3/17/2009 4:18:16 PM
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frankman
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Let`s look at a pacific case from 1 Sam.15:3. "Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys." Note God didn`t just command Saul to kill the Amalekite`s innocent women and children, but also their animals. So the question could read "Why did God kill innocent children and animals in the Bible?"
One reason why God commanded them to be all killed was because God knew their wickedness and sin had reached an unrepentant stage of total hopelessness. These guerrilla terrorists and their off-spring would only continue to raid and kill the Jewish people down throughout the generations to follow. So because God knew a peaceful lifestyle with these people was impossible, their annihilation was the only answer.
    Now why also the animals? Could it be that the reason that God ordered all of the Amalekite possessions destroyed including the animals may have had something to do with idol worship? We know from history King Saul did not obey this command. We also know from history Israel fall into the sin of idolatry time and time again because of their disobedience.
 Was God right in killing these people? First of all let`s remember nobody is innocent before our Holy God. Ps.51:5 tells us we are all sinful at birth and deserve death. "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me." Also God is also a merciful God because many of these innocent children died before reaching the age of accountability and are therefore in heaven today. If they had grown up to be as depraved killers like their parents, what chance of heaven would they have ever had? Now let`s get back to our question.  Remember, God is sovereign over all life. God created life and He has the right to take it. On the other hand we didn`t create life, we don`t own life, so therefore we have no right to take life. What is wrong for us is not wrong for God. God made life, it`s His, so He has the right to do with life as He pleases, when He pleases, how He pleases. That`s why evenually God will take all of our lives someday, for we will all someday die. The thing is when that will be is in God`s hands, and never in our hands. So therefore a God ordered genocide was justified. However all men ordered genocides today are not.
Concerning abortions God has spoken to us about it in Ps.139:13 stating life begins at conception. Then He stated in Ex. 20:13 that taking a life is sin. So the order is given to us by God in the Bible stating that abortion is sin.
_____________________________
"Is not My word like fire,` declares the LORD, `and like a hammer that breaks a rock in peaces?" Jeremiah 23:29
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RE: Why did God kill people in the Bible? - 3/17/2009 4:27:53 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 1521
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Christfollower2000
I have posed this question elsewhere, but if God killed the babies in the OT then how can anyone claim that he wouldn't be doing it today through abortion? How can we claim to know God's higher purpose for us when there he is responsible for so much killing in the past? Will anyone conclusively claim that they know God is not using abortion for some higher purpose?
Thous shalt not kill.. God does not want to kill and He does not want us to kill. SIN kills. You need to understand what sin is and how it works in order to comprehend that God is not killing babies and He never did.
God is NOT using abortion. It is just the opposite. In the OT, babies were routinely sacrificed to satanic gods.....of course if you would try and do that now, offer up a living baby in front of 'worshippers' everyone would be aghast. Well, what do you think abortion is? A not living baby?
That is not what Scripture says...God knew us in the womb...we were alive even then.
So, Satan still has his child sacrifice in the name of modern practice. It is sin. Not God.
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RE: Why did God kill people in the Bible? - 3/17/2009 4:29:56 PM
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solarflare
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quote:
Is one's claim that God made them do something evidence that God made them do it?
We have the Bible. Does their claim go against the Word? How about discernment and following what the Bible actually says instead of 'thinking' that God is out and about killing at His whim because He can.
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RE: Why did God kill people in the Bible? - 3/17/2009 4:33:59 PM
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Christfollower2000
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quote:
ORIGINAL: frankman
Concerning abortions God has spoken to us about it in Ps.139:13 stating life begins at conception. Then He stated in Ex. 20:13 that taking a life is sin. So the order is given to us by God in the Bible stating that abortion is sin.
So here is my point. Were those who killed the Amalekites sinning when they killed? Are the people who killed by God's command in the Bible sinners for taking a life and because life begins at conception? Or did the fact that God ordered it remove those people from a sinful act? In other words did God command them to sin?
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RE: Why did God kill people in the Bible? - 3/17/2009 4:53:48 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 6400
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Truth Project
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Christfollower2000
I have posed this question elsewhere, but if God killed the babies in the OT then how can anyone claim that he wouldn't be doing it today through abortion? How can we claim to know God's higher purpose for us when there he is responsible for so much killing in the past? Will anyone conclusively claim that they know God is not using abortion for some higher purpose?
I will until someone can point out the modern day Joshua running the abortions mills...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Why did God kill people in the Bible? - 3/17/2009 5:01:59 PM
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frankman
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Christfollower2000
quote:
ORIGINAL: frankman
Concerning abortions God has spoken to us about it in Ps.139:13 stating life begins at conception. Then He stated in Ex. 20:13 that taking a life is sin. So the order is given to us by God in the Bible stating that abortion is sin.
So here is my point. Were those who killed the Amalekites sinning when they killed? Are the people who killed by God's command in the Bible sinners for taking a life and because life begins at conception? Or did the fact that God ordered it remove those people from a sinful act? In other words did God command them to sin?
Great questions! The key to the answer to this question is found in 1 Sam.15:2. "This is what the LORD Almighty says:" So because God commanded it, it was not a sin in this case to kill. In fact as you read the rest of the chapter you will read that King Saul sinned by not carrying out God`s command to kill all of the Amalekites. God stated in 1 Sam.15:11 "I am grieved that I have made Saul king, because he has turned away from Me and has not carried out My instructions." The armies of Israel became God`s tool in destroying the Amalekites, and therefore in this case killing was not a sin. It was a sin to not kill and disobey God`s command to kill.
Today God`s command to us is just the opposite. Jesus commands us in Matt.5:44 "But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you."
_____________________________
"Is not My word like fire,` declares the LORD, `and like a hammer that breaks a rock in peaces?" Jeremiah 23:29
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