Can we have any idea of the Pre-Flood population of the world?
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Can we have any idea of the Pre-Flood population of the... - 4/10/2009 5:51:08 PM
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wolfwredroses77
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I believe that the Flood literally occurred approximately 1,650 years after creation. Noting the canopy and the filtering of harmful UV rays and longevity of life 7,8 even 900 or more years. Dr. Morris of the Creation Science Institute speculates as many as are on the earth today, possibly more. Does this possibility strike any cords to people?
< Message edited by wolfwredroses77 -- 4/10/2009 9:15:51 PM >
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RE: Can we have any idea of the Pre-Flood population of... - 4/10/2009 9:32:30 PM
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navyblueret
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wolfwredroses77, Shalom.
I do not believe there is any way one could ascertain that figure, since the Bible simply states that 'sons and daughters were born, after the citation about the first son (who may have had older sisters, even), and does not follow any branches, but only the single individual in the 'line.'
You can just about factor in X-nr of years between each child, for a child bearing season of Y-years, and perhaps come up with a guesstimate of the population (plus/minus Z-millions).
It would be possible for the earth to have a population of up to five hundred Million, but probably considerably less than that.
OK, I have offered my IMO wild guess. Next? (I am going to edit this in anyway, ha ha: 100% is the answer. Sorry I just had to crack that stupid joke)
In Messiah, His Shalom, and tally. Arley
_____________________________
In the name of 'THE' Mashiach, Man the wall, set the watch, sound the Shofar. Our redemption draws nigh.
Messiah, my Captain, and Helmsman.
(Joh 14:6 KJV) ... I am the way, the truth, and the life: ...
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RE: Can we have any idea of the Pre-Flood population of... - 4/10/2009 10:41:07 PM
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drmark
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Welcome to the Forums, wwr77!
quote:
Does this possibility strike any cords to people? Why do you think we do not find a much larger number of fossilized antediluvian humans if there may have been a billion-plus living around 2500 BC?
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Can we have any idea of the Pre-Flood population of... - 4/10/2009 11:15:40 PM
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yzf-r1
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Interesting question, but no doubt it was millions, considering the long human life spans and birth rates. I wonder if women could still get pregnant at increased age?
I don't believe shortened life spans were directly the result of environmental factors, because Noah lived another 350 years after the flood. I believe it was related to inbreeding, and the increasing genetic load of mutations that resulted.
< Message edited by yzf-r1 -- 4/10/2009 11:42:42 PM >
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RE: Can we have any idea of the Pre-Flood population of... - 4/10/2009 11:23:17 PM
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oldearth
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oh no....lets not get on the 'degradation of DNA' tripe that is so popular these days.
Dna does not degrade, its the proteins that specialize the organizims development. IF anything is a lossless specialization.
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RE: Can we have any idea of the Pre-Flood population of... - 4/10/2009 11:27:09 PM
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yzf-r1
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Increasing accumulation of mutations is another reason progressive evolution is a myth. The human race is becoming LESS fit, not more fit, over time. Genetic related disorders are continuously on the rise over time.
http://www.detectingdesign.com/dnamutationrates.html
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RE: Can we have any idea of the Pre-Flood population of... - 4/10/2009 11:31:17 PM
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oldearth
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mutations? isn not a mutation evolution?
me thinks you need to clarify or learn a little bit more of what exactly evolution is.
and you can directly corralate the 'fitness' of persons due to their diet...the Romans proved that years ago.
our fast food, preprocessed, frozen, and microwaved corn syrup and salt is the cause of people getting less fit. Anyone can see that...I think u need to rethink your viewpoint.
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RE: Can we have any idea of the Pre-Flood population of... - 4/10/2009 11:35:52 PM
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yzf-r1
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Mutations are the supposed mechanism of progressive evolution, but that's a fallacy. The overwhelming trend of mutations is deleterious. Point mutations get rid of information.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/wow/are-mutations-the-engine
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RE: Can we have any idea of the Pre-Flood population of... - 4/10/2009 11:46:54 PM
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oldearth
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progressive evolution....fallacy....bah. I now know that your are just parroting AIG then.
THINK about it. Either a mutation works or not. if it does not work the mutation does not get propagated to the next generation because the organism dies...or the species ...
so good mutations help the species along. bad mutations, they do not. face it, you are a mutation of both of your parents. if you have kids they are a mutation of your SO and you....
AIG .....most of their research is shoddy and speculative, and jaded.
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RE: Can we have any idea of the Pre-Flood population of... - 4/10/2009 11:52:48 PM
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navyblueret
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I believe that mutations scramble DNA/RNA and seldom survive to procreate, nor sustain the mutation. Only Evolution has a chance of sustainability, but even then the chance is about 10 to the 17th power against sustainability. In short, one male and one female would be required to generate a solid DNA positional lock, to produce an offspring which could exhibit the desired evolutionary trait. Complicate yet further, the fact that the #1 stable offspring, would need yet another pair of parents to provide offspring #2, for offspring #1 to procreate with, to continue the desired affect. And yada, yada, yady, on it goes.
Perhaps the 17th power is not nearly high enough.
In Messiah, His Shalom, and calculator. Arley 
_____________________________
In the name of 'THE' Mashiach, Man the wall, set the watch, sound the Shofar. Our redemption draws nigh.
Messiah, my Captain, and Helmsman.
(Joh 14:6 KJV) ... I am the way, the truth, and the life: ...
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RE: Can we have any idea of the Pre-Flood population of... - 4/11/2009 12:32:58 AM
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yzf-r1
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What about the many diseases that have genetic factors? Cancer, MS, autism, etc. The list is long, and the numbers of people affected is not shrinking, to say the least.
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RE: Can we have any idea of the Pre-Flood population of... - 4/11/2009 12:40:12 AM
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navyblueret
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yzf-r1, Shalom.
You offer rightly, only outside the OP. DNA/RNA, and genetic factors should be munched on another thread.
In Messiah, His shalom, and direction. Arley
_____________________________
In the name of 'THE' Mashiach, Man the wall, set the watch, sound the Shofar. Our redemption draws nigh.
Messiah, my Captain, and Helmsman.
(Joh 14:6 KJV) ... I am the way, the truth, and the life: ...
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RE: Can we have any idea of the Pre-Flood population of... - 4/11/2009 2:11:04 AM
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Veritas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: navyblueret
Perhaps the 17th power is not nearly high enough.
10 to the 17th power is a made up number. If that's not high enough, just make up a higher number.
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RE: Can we have any idea of the Pre-Flood population of... - 4/11/2009 8:29:39 AM
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drmark
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quote:
mutations? isn not a mutation evolution?
me thinks you need to clarify or learn a little bit more of what exactly evolution is. Methinks you need to refrain from redefining "evolution" to suit whatever position you wish it to support! Is not a mutation evolution? - what nonsense!
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Can we have any idea of the Pre-Flood population of... - 4/11/2009 3:09:11 PM
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wolfwredroses77
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Contrary to the rationalizing that the DNA pre-deluvian was degenerative, During this time period, man was much healthier than he is now; the gene pool, less corrupted by subsequent harmful mutations and other defects; and the environment on earth, was much more favorable to good health and long life, as can be seen by the recorded pre-flood longevities.
While classical evolutionary theory presupposes earth's early atmosphere was a reducing atmosphere (devoid of Oxygen) newer scientific evidence confirms what Bible scholars had previously suspected: the earth's ancient atmosphere probably contained a larger fraction of oxygen than it does at present. It is even possible that photosynthesis in plant life was more efficient than it is now. A warmer average climate in ancient times would also mean a higher rate of oxygen generation by the more numerous plant life. This is why the mamoth is found in the ice, the earth was commonly known as having a "greenhouse effect".
The answer to the remains could be begged a differ answer, where did all the fossil FUEL we consume come from? We really do not understand the magnitude the flood caused on the earth.
From the Genesis File: http://www.genesisfiles.com/Antediluvians.htm
Many have asked the question, "how large was the antediluvian population"? Population studies have revealed (mathematically speaking) that populations in the billions were possible (perhaps as large as today's population)!
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RE: Can we have any idea of the Pre-Flood population of... - 4/11/2009 3:16:03 PM
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wolfwredroses77
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Hi DRMark, Navy, I simply think this consideration is important, it is why I asked. I love my God and Savior and have tried to study truth, there IS a formula for population, this is it Mr. Morris comment on it will follow:
Growth of world population during various epochs of earth history can be calculated by a well-known formula:
In this formula Pn is the population after n generations beginning with one man and one woman; n is the number of generations---found by dividing the total time period by the number of years per generation.
The variable x can be thought of as the number of generations that are alive when P(n) is evaluated. Therefore, if x is 2, the generations that are alive are generations n and n-1. This means that only a generation and its parents are alive. It seems reasonable to choose x = 3 most of the time. Taking x = 3 means that when P(n) is evaluated generations n, n-1, and n-2 are all alive.
C is half the number of children in the family. If each family has only two children, the population growth rate is zero, but a reasonable and conservative number of children per family is 2.1 to 2.5 as far as historical records are concerned. (The derivation of the above equation has been added as Note A at the end of this article). Allowing for famine, disease, war, and disaster, a few sample calculations will show that the earth's population could have easily reached several billions of people between the time of Adam and the time of the flood. It is even quite possible that the preflood population was much higher than it is now.
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RE: Can we have any idea of the Pre-Flood population of... - 4/11/2009 3:16:44 PM
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drmark
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I ask again - where are all the millions of fossilized antediluvian humans?
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Can we have any idea of the Pre-Flood population of... - 4/11/2009 3:19:14 PM
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wolfwredroses77
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A home computer spread sheet or a hand calculator can be used to iterate world population growth rates for various realistic values of n, C, and x. This will soon convince the skeptic that the earth can be easily filled full of people in a few thousands of years. Henry Morris (Ref. 1) gives the following examples of possible population growth rates of the earth at various times in history:
"...Assume that C = 2 and x = 2, which is equivalent to saying that the average family has 4 children who later have families of their own, and that each set of parents lives to see all their grandchildren. For these conditions which are not at all unreasonable, the population at the end of 5 generation would be 96, after 10 generations, 3,070; after 15 generations, 98,300; after 20 generations, 3,150,000; and after 30 generations, 3,220,000,000. In one more generation (31) the total would increase to 6.5 billion.
Then get this: "Multiplication was probably more rapid than assumed in this calculation, especially in the earliest centuries of the antediluvian epoch. For example, if the average family size were 8, instead of 6, and the length of a generation 93 years, instead of 100, the population at the time of Adam's death, 930 years after his creation, would already have been 2,800,000. At these rates, the population at the time of the Deluge would have been 137 billion! Even if we use rates appropriate for the present world (x = 1 and C = 1.5), over 3 billion people could easily have been on the earth at the time of Noah."
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RE: Can we have any idea of the Pre-Flood population of... - 4/11/2009 3:22:31 PM
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wolfwredroses77
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drmark, I did address that, we consume it in the form of fossil fuel! My question is, where did all the fossel fuel come from? Maybe from the pre-flood inhabitants, whatever and how manyever there were. All I know is this, It staggers me how much fuel humanity consumes in every machine we burn from furnaces, to cars, to industry to flight to marine.
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RE: Can we have any idea of the Pre-Flood population of... - 4/11/2009 3:27:00 PM
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DanJames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: oldearth
mutations? isn not a mutation evolution?
me thinks you need to clarify or learn a little bit more of what exactly evolution is.
The answer: learn more about evolution. Methinks Dawkins would be proud of the use of this point. Anybody who is not an atheist, in his viewpoint, hasn't thought about it enough or is a closed-minded fundamentalist.
quote:
and you can directly corralate the 'fitness' of persons due to their diet...the Romans proved that years ago.
our fast food, preprocessed, frozen, and microwaved corn syrup and salt is the cause of people getting less fit. Anyone can see that...I think u need to rethink your viewpoint.
Before this gets too far, let's not mix up "fitness" as it pertains with the ability to procreate and "fitness" as it pertains to the health of the body due to diet and exercise.
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RE: Can we have any idea of the Pre-Flood population of... - 4/11/2009 3:28:59 PM
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DanJames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wolfwredroses77
drmark, I did address that, we consume it in the form of fossil fuel! My question is, where did all the fossel fuel come from? Maybe from the pre-flood inhabitants, whatever and how manyever there were. All I know is this, It staggers me how much fuel humanity consumes in every machine we burn from furnaces, to cars, to industry to flight to marine.
I don't think that any of the fuel we use is from humans. Gross. Though it would make for an interesting object lesson for your kids as you pump your gas. As Dr. Hovind puts it, "Bye bye, Grandpa! Should have listened to Noah!"
Edit: Oh, and welcome to the forums Wolf W/ Red Roses!
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RE: Can we have any idea of the Pre-Flood population of... - 4/11/2009 3:31:19 PM
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wolfwredroses77
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DrMark, Jesus Himself may have given us the answer. "The flood came, and took them all away" (Matthew 24:39) "Took away" as in swept into the depths of the seas. Just a thought.
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RE: Can we have any idea of the Pre-Flood population of... - 4/11/2009 3:35:56 PM
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drmark
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quote:
DrMark, Jesus Himself may have given us the answer. "The flood came, and took them all away" (Matthew 24:39) "Took away" as in swept into the depths of the seas. Just a thought. And a very good thought, I might add! Obviously, humans would have had the capacity to avoid drowning by climbing to higher ground, but I'm not sure how that would have affected the distibution of billions of corpses once the Flood waters receded. Interesting to speculate.
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Can we have any idea of the Pre-Flood population of... - 4/11/2009 3:39:32 PM
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DanJames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: oldearth
so good mutations help the species along. bad mutations, they do not. face it, you are a mutation of both of your parents. if you have kids they are a mutation of your SO and you....
This is not a very good representation of mutations, unless you want to define mutations as ANY and every change to the genetic code regardless of its cause. To do so would make the word "mutation" as worthless a word as "gentlemen" and "evolution". The only change in genetic code that occurs as a result of sexual reproduction is 1) any point mutations that occur in the gametes, and 2) crossing over during gamete production. To say that we are "mutations" of our parents... I think that is a poor use of the word "mutation".
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RE: Can we have any idea of the Pre-Flood population of... - 4/11/2009 4:36:20 PM
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navyblueret
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wolfwredroses77, Shalom.
The next time you want to know how many polliwogs you can fit in a brandy snifter, you will know better than to ask this group. We have sailors guessing at how many fish are in the ocean, and cavemen concerned with mutation, Dr's wondering where the bodies are buried.
Aint-not this fun? I am enjoying it. A bit of 'what-if' cleanse the palate for the next course of chewable scripture.
137 Billion, huh? Garshk, that is six times today's population, and we feel over populated. No wonder God shortened our lifespan, He was running out of room. Ha
In Messiah, His Shalom, and Pesach. Arley
_____________________________
In the name of 'THE' Mashiach, Man the wall, set the watch, sound the Shofar. Our redemption draws nigh.
Messiah, my Captain, and Helmsman.
(Joh 14:6 KJV) ... I am the way, the truth, and the life: ...
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