Teacher Satisfaction: Public vs. Private Education (Full Version)

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hillbillywoman -> Teacher Satisfaction: Public vs. Private Education (5/21/2009 7:48:51 PM)

Here is an interesting study:

http://www.onenewsnow.com/Education/Default.aspx?id=536460



garsyt -> RE: Teacher Satisfaction: Public vs. Private Education (5/21/2009 8:21:36 PM)

quote:

According to D'Andrea, private school teachers are also more satisfied with their jobs because they typically have to contend with fewer bureaucratic restrictions.


I think THIS is a KEY point in this article. If public school teachers were allowed to teach and they didn't have to put up with all the bureaucratic garbage AND if individual school districts were treated as individual entities that received an equal share of whatever government funds (based on enrollment and NOT based on the number of high risk or low income children enrolled - as it is done in our state).

Bureaucratic garbage that comes from the state or national level isn't the only garbage teachers have to deal with. It even comes from the local level. Without listening to the teachers, parents or the kids themselves - local school boards and superintendents often hand down decisions with little or no thought as to what this will mean for the children.

Anyway - enough of my ranting!

Blessings,

Garsy



iluvatar -> RE: Teacher Satisfaction: Public vs. Private Education (5/21/2009 8:22:04 PM)

I wouldn't be surprised if this were true, but I wouldn't put too much stock in either the reporting of ONN (they're really terrible) or a study conducted by an obviously biased organization.

-Dan.



kernsfamily -> RE: Teacher Satisfaction: Public vs. Private Education (5/22/2009 11:02:34 AM)

There are many reasons for the disparity. Among those not listed:

Private school teachers are likely more "satisified" because they have ONLY the "BEST" kids (all cherry-picked)...most private schools (at least in our area) take the liberty of "weeding out" and rejecting those who are not "high achievers".

Parental involvement in private school occurs at a MUCH higher level....because those parents have a HIGH financial investment at stake. They are going to make sure that their kids get the most out of it, and being a highly involved parent is a part of that. They are likely to be higher income/higher educated, which also means a greater "expectation" for higher performance in the classroom.

Fewer disciplinary problems and violence threats? Sure. Public schools are in GOOD neighborhoods...and in bad neighborhoods. How many private schools do you see on the bad side of town? (where, incidently, most of the violence occurs?) They must accept all who show up at the door. Children from ALL walks of life....from good homes and bad. Unfortunately, that also means that a certain percentage of kids are going to have "issues", whether with violence or discipline issues.

If a public school could go down the enrollment sheet, and say, "We're taking Garsy's kids, since they tested so well, and through our rigorous "acceptance" process, we know they are great kids....but, iluvatar's kid just isn't "up to our standards" (meaning he's going to risk the school's high test score averages....and perhaps "make the school look bad")......and, not take MY kids, because their "home life" isn't "up to par" with "their standards"......then, you would see a HUGE difference in those public school teacher's attitudes towards their jobs.

But, public schools don't have that luxury.



stampinlady -> RE: Teacher Satisfaction: Public vs. Private Education (5/22/2009 11:43:08 AM)

Good post Kernsfamily. And it depends on which provate school we're talking about. The christian one my kids went to had a handfull of great teachers. The other's had no business teaching.



coolfamily6 -> RE: Teacher Satisfaction: Public vs. Private Education (5/22/2009 1:35:26 PM)

We're leaving our current Christian school because all of the teachers are people from their church. All of them have college degrees but they do not consider any other teacher's from the Christian community. To work (or volunteer for that matter) in the school you must attend their church. That's a very small hiring pool. The first grade teacher was fired just before spring break because the pastor/principal found out that she and her hubby had visited another church.



macokjc -> RE: Teacher Satisfaction: Public vs. Private Education (5/22/2009 2:52:27 PM)

I, for one, get tired of the "private schools do better because they only accept the academically advanced" argument. I have seen it on this forum several times lately. Yes, I'm sure that many private schools do limit their attendance; but no Christian school that I have ever come in contact with turned kids away because of academics. Most have taken in kids that have been expelled from public schools, hoping to be able to help them. I think that kids historically do better than public school kids because there are more parents that take a greater interest in their child's academics. When you pay thousands of dollars a year for your kids' education, you most likely will check their homework. Public schools don't always have the luxury of caring parents.


I have found that parents are the key - whether it is homeschool, public school, or private school. I personally know some parents who are very involved in the kids live in public school, and they are a very close family. Then I know some parents who homeschool but everybody in the family really can't stand one another. When I stopped homeschooling, it was hard for me to admit that I was going to send my kids away for 7 hours a day. Oh the horrified looks that I got!! However, those 5-6 hours that my son is home before he goes to bed are WAY better than the 24 hours that he was home when he was homeschooled. I've been observing parents, in real life and on forums, over the past year; and the majority of homeschool moms I have come across just complain, complain, complain. They don't like their churches, their friends, their kids, their husbands, etc.....Every day is a bad day. While I understand that sometimes it is just a way of venting; I think many kids lives would be improved by a break from their parents.



kernsfamily -> RE: Teacher Satisfaction: Public vs. Private Education (5/22/2009 4:59:42 PM)

quote:

I, for one, get tired of the "private schools do better because they only accept the academically advanced" argument. I have seen it on this forum several times lately. Yes, I'm sure that many private schools do limit their attendance; but no Christian school that I have ever come in contact with turned kids away because of academics. Most have taken in kids that have been expelled from public schools, hoping to be able to help them.


I am sure there are Christian schools who accept all who wish to attend...with "no strings" attached. But, around here, the private school industry is VERY competitive, and one thing parents look at is how well the school "performs" (which, means "test scores")....in order for schools to do their best....they need to make sure they snag the best students....while rejecting those who may do less than "average". It happens all the time.

I am sure the school at our church is a great school. But, I wouldn't take the risk of having our kids go through the rigorous "acceptance" testing and evaluation, only to find out that perhaps only 1 or 2 out of the 3 girls are "accepted", and others are "rejected" (who knows? we MAY get lucky and all 3 may get accepted).....

There ARE some schools that are easier to get into than others. (But, of course, you always have the parents insisting that their kids go to the "BEST" school...which means "highly ranked"....via test scores & college admission statistics)...which, all of course, are skewed and manipulated by the entire "admission" process.

Though, when my wife talks to her friends at church (many of whom attend the church school), they aren't learning anything "more" than what our kids are in their public school.

One of our kids' babysitters (lives 2 doors down from us)....she just accepted her admission to WEST POINT (one of the hardest schools to get into anywhere)......she also got accepted into ALL FOUR of the other "service academies".....
Getting into one is a challenge. Getting accepted into all 5 is almost unheard of.

another kid from the other nearby high school, who graduated a few years ago...was honored as a Rhodes Scholar. He's taking that opportunity to study theology, since he's going into the ministry.

both are graduates (or soon to be) of what many people refer to as our so-called "failed" public education system......



kernsfamily -> RE: Teacher Satisfaction: Public vs. Private Education (5/22/2009 6:08:10 PM)

last thought...before I leave for Memorial day weekend...

no matter what education system you pick....it's only as good as what YOU (and your kids) put into it.

The problem with public education today (and thus, which leads to the issues teachers have)....is that there are too many parents, and students, putting NOTHING into it.

have a great weekend.



artemis -> RE: Teacher Satisfaction: Public vs. Private Education (5/22/2009 8:55:24 PM)

I'm sure teacher satisfaction varies school to school, but another advantage that private school often have is smaller class sizes. Less students = less grading = less work to take home = less hours working, etc. My 2nd period has 31 students... some private schools don't even have that in their entire graduating class [8D]

That being said, I'm VERY glad I teach in a public school. I'd rather deal with non-involved parents than with the crazies who think they can control your classroom because they're paying for it [&:] I will probably only teach in a private school if we choose to send our child(ren) to one and I want the discounted tuition [:D]



iluvatar -> RE: Teacher Satisfaction: Public vs. Private Education (5/26/2009 8:30:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: macokjc

I, for one, get tired of the "private schools do better because they only accept the academically advanced" argument. I have seen it on this forum several times lately. Yes, I'm sure that many private schools do limit their attendance; but no Christian school that I have ever come in contact with turned kids away because of academics.


I think there are a couple different kinds of private Christian schools. There are the high-dollar ones that charge over $10K/yr and are academically competitive, and there are the low-budget ones that only charge a few thousand and accept more than just the "ringers." Aside from my senior year, where I attended a Catholic school that used a public school curriculum, my experience has been solely with the "low-budget" schools. I wouldn't be surprised if their students still did somewhat better at standardized tests than public school, not only for the aforementioned reasons of parental involvement and smaller class sizes, but also because their curricula (e.g. A Beka & Bob Jones) are pretty decent at teaching subjects that require rote memorization, such as spelling, grammar, vocabulary, and simpler maths (e.g. below pre-calc). Those subjects make up the bulk of what's covered on standardized tests.

The problem IMO is that when you get to high school, subjects (should) require critical thought and analysis more than just memorization and these curricula just fall flat (it doesn't help that they put a grossly biased spin on everything from literature to history to science). Combine that with teachers who often are just parents and/or church members who have little experience in the field and you get a bunch of kids who can do fine reciting answers out of a book, but have little ability to think critically or analyze and understand the world for themselves.

-Dan.



coolfamily6 -> RE: Teacher Satisfaction: Public vs. Private Education (5/26/2009 8:47:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: macokjc

I, for one, get tired of the "private schools do better because they only accept the academically advanced" argument. I have seen it on this forum several times lately. Yes, I'm sure that many private schools do limit their attendance; but no Christian school that I have ever come in contact with turned kids away because of academics.


I think there are a couple different kinds of private Christian schools.


My daughter is testing tomorrow for a Christian school, the headmaster told us that the testing is just to get an idea of the level she is at and to see if she needs help getting on level with their students. A private non-Christian school told me if she doesn't pass the testing she is not allowed to attend. There are several private schools in our area that test for entrance, as do some of the Christian schools. I think the reasons for testing differ school to school.



garsyt -> RE: Teacher Satisfaction: Public vs. Private Education (5/26/2009 9:24:47 AM)

I am of the belief that teacher satisfaction and parental involvement do go hand in hand. When teachers have help and support, they are freed up to teach. Where teachers have parents to take care of the little things such as copying, filing, project prep, the teachers are freed up to actually focus on preparing lessons, and coming up with new ideas and whatnot that will help the students in their classroom learn. Where teachers have the support of parents when it comes to discipline and behavior issues of their children will automatically have fewer problems and thus have more satisfaction in their jobs.

Blessings,

Garsy



zoebob -> RE: Teacher Satisfaction: Public vs. Private Education (5/29/2009 7:06:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: iluvatar

quote:

ORIGINAL: macokjc

I, for one, get tired of the "private schools do better because they only accept the academically advanced" argument. I have seen it on this forum several times lately. Yes, I'm sure that many private schools do limit their attendance; but no Christian school that I have ever come in contact with turned kids away because of academics.


I think there are a couple different kinds of private Christian schools. There are the high-dollar ones that charge over $10K/yr and are academically competitive, and there are the low-budget ones that only charge a few thousand and accept more than just the "ringers." Aside from my senior year, where I attended a Catholic school that used a public school curriculum, my experience has been solely with the "low-budget" schools. I wouldn't be surprised if their students still did somewhat better at standardized tests than public school, not only for the aforementioned reasons of parental involvement and smaller class sizes, but also because their curricula (e.g. A Beka & Bob Jones) are pretty decent at teaching subjects that require rote memorization, such as spelling, grammar, vocabulary, and simpler maths (e.g. below pre-calc). Those subjects make up the bulk of what's covered on standardized tests.


-Dan.

I agree that all Christian schools aren't like that. Maybe even most aren't. I've been involved in 2 directly and know of others that do not turn kids away because of academics. As for costs:

There are 2 Christian schools in my town.
1. Pk3-12th grade. Tuition about $7000 a year. Can get aid up to 1/2 of that. Other than Bible class the textbooks are the same as you would find in public schools. The teachers do not make a lot of money but are satisfied with their jobs most of the time. Many have been teaching for many many years and most are certified teachers. This school is acredited and as such must have a high percentage of teachers with current certification (not that that means anything as far as being able to teach) and many others are older who have let certification lapse but were certified. Students study Spanish from K-5 I believe and then it's an option in high school. There are sports teams, art, music, drama. We have a Sr play in the fall and high school musical in the spring. The teachers are dedicated and don't feel like they must bow to the parents wishes to keep their jobs. I know that some students from the wealthier families have had behavior problems and they are dealt with.

2. K-8th grade. Tuition is about $7700/child a year. However every family gets financial aid and some pay as little as $52/month per child. This covers everything from books to field trips. This is an inner city school. It is very multicultural. They provide a classical education and teach latin at the elementary level. They do have placement testing but I don't believe they will refuse you for academic reasons. However, I think most schools have some sort of placement testing to see if you are really ready for what they teach in a grade level compared to your old school.

I know several families that attend here and as far as their reputation goes families and teachers alike are happy with this school.

In both schools parents are required to donate time to the school. In the second school parents that I know do things like lead chapel on a regular basis, teach a class, etc.



hoppersfan -> RE: Teacher Satisfaction: Public vs. Private Education (5/31/2009 12:41:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: garsyt

I am of the belief that teacher satisfaction and parental involvement do go hand in hand. When teachers have help and support, they are freed up to teach. Where teachers have parents to take care of the little things such as copying, filing, project prep, the teachers are freed up to actually focus on preparing lessons, and coming up with new ideas and whatnot that will help the students in their classroom learn. Where teachers have the support of parents when it comes to discipline and behavior issues of their children will automatically have fewer problems and thus have more satisfaction in their jobs.

Blessings,

Garsy


This is an excellent post. As a public school teacher (kindergarten), I can assure you that teacher satisfaction and parental involvement go hand-in-hand. I can't add anything new to this post because garsy stated everything so eloquently, but I did want to say "Amen" to everything she said!!! [:)]



garsyt -> RE: Teacher Satisfaction: Public vs. Private Education (5/31/2009 3:33:05 PM)

Kindergarten teachers simply CAN'T do it all without help - without burning out REALLY FAST or driving their families absolutely crazy! Mom's of kindergarteners - TAKE the time! Anything you can do will be so appreciated! Those with older kids - an occasional trip back to kindergarten classroom just to see if there is anything you can do will more then likely be met with a stack of copies to make or a project of some sort!

Thanks for the compliment!

Blessings,

Garsy



artemis -> RE: Teacher Satisfaction: Public vs. Private Education (5/31/2009 7:30:18 PM)

I want to teach Garsy's kids... so I can have Garsy as my room mom [:D]

(I'm sure her kids are good to have in class, too)



garsyt -> RE: Teacher Satisfaction: Public vs. Private Education (5/31/2009 9:28:13 PM)

Ha!! I have 5th grade teachers fighting over my now 4th grader for next year! Not because they necessarily want him, but because they KNOW that I come WITH him.

3rd grade teachers all already know that all they have to do is ask and I'll help them all out, so they aren't as concerned about who gets my baby!

But honestly, we have so many parents that volunteer on a regular basis at my kids' school that the same could be said about Lou, Angela, Theresa, Mary, Heather, Brian, Chris, Christi, Tracy, Dawn, Dick, John, and many many others.

We have a father of a third grader that comes in and sets up the science lab for ALL three third grade classes and then stays and helps out. He does this at least twice a week, three weeks a month. We have a 2 mothers of a kindergarteners that comes in EVERY Friday afternoon and fill take home folders one for each half day class. Three weeks ago the Art and Music teachers had 23 volunteers to help with Fine Arts day this was in addition to the regular classroom teachers having their regular Wednesday volunteers. Next Wednesday the PE teacher has at least 30 parents coming in to help out with field day. And many of the volunteers are more then willing to jump in and help wherever needed, all the teachers need to do is ask.

If it weren't for bureaucratic garbage coming down from the district office - many of the teachers at our school would stay til they retired, and many of them do.

Blessings,

Garsy



ctpruitt -> RE: Teacher Satisfaction: Public vs. Private Education (6/1/2009 8:29:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: garsyt

Ha!! I have 5th grade teachers fighting over my now 4th grader for next year! Not because they necessarily want him, but because they KNOW that I come WITH him.

3rd grade teachers all already know that all they have to do is ask and I'll help them all out, so they aren't as concerned about who gets my baby!

But honestly, we have so many parents that volunteer on a regular basis at my kids' school that the same could be said about Lou, Angela, Theresa, Mary, Heather, Brian, Chris, Christi, Tracy, Dawn, Dick, John, and many many others.

We have a father of a third grader that comes in and sets up the science lab for ALL three third grade classes and then stays and helps out. He does this at least twice a week, three weeks a month. We have a 2 mothers of a kindergarteners that comes in EVERY Friday afternoon and fill take home folders one for each half day class. Three weeks ago the Art and Music teachers had 23 volunteers to help with Fine Arts day this was in addition to the regular classroom teachers having their regular Wednesday volunteers. Next Wednesday the PE teacher has at least 30 parents coming in to help out with field day. And many of the volunteers are more then willing to jump in and help wherever needed, all the teachers need to do is ask.

If it weren't for bureaucratic garbage coming down from the district office - many of the teachers at our school would stay til they retired, and many of them do.

Blessings,

Garsy


Your county needs to hire more teachers! In the county where I am, the BOE claims we have too many!



garsyt -> RE: Teacher Satisfaction: Public vs. Private Education (6/1/2009 9:37:55 PM)

quote:


Your county needs to hire more teachers! In the county where I am, the BOE claims we have too many!


While I agree - I doubt that will happen and what did I say to make you respond that way? Personally, I would just LOVE to make sure that every part-timer or traveling teacher were keeping their jobs next year. I would LOVE to make sure that ALL classrooms didn't have more then 22 kids each in them.

But in our district, I don't think it would matter how many teachers we had - we'd still have highly involved parents.

Now if I could only convince the district to higher me on part-time as a volunteer coordinator at our school. I pretty much do the job already, I just don't get paid for it!

Blessings,

Garsy



judii1 -> RE: Teacher Satisfaction: Public vs. Private Education (6/5/2009 9:25:46 PM)

Garsy, it sounds like your kids have a wonderful school to attend. Can I send my grankids there? The principal of their school has his wife homeschooling their kids...I wonder why?



garsyt -> RE: Teacher Satisfaction: Public vs. Private Education (6/5/2009 9:41:38 PM)

Send them my way Judii! I'd love to meet them (and you!) and have them part of our school community!

Blessings,

Garsy



ctpruitt -> RE: Teacher Satisfaction: Public vs. Private Education (6/6/2009 8:49:26 AM)

That is not completly unknown; my cousin, who teaches high school math at the local high, homeschools his kids. The pastor of my church teaches both at a private christian school and the local high school does the same. I have enquired of both of the idea behind this and oddly enough did not repeat the usual reasons I have heard behind homeschooling. They both just stated "public schools ain't safe anymore." As tho their homes were any safer.


quote:

ORIGINAL: judii1

Garsy, it sounds like your kids have a wonderful school to attend. Can I send my grankids there? The principal of their school has his wife homeschooling their kids...I wonder why?



zoebob -> RE: Teacher Satisfaction: Public vs. Private Education (6/6/2009 8:57:15 AM)

Are you implying that their homes aren't safer?



ctpruitt -> RE: Teacher Satisfaction: Public vs. Private Education (6/7/2009 10:11:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: zoebob

Are you implying that their homes aren't safer?



That is exactly what I am saying; just last week, in my own county, there were two houses in the same subdivision that that were hit by crooks using the home invasion technique. Their method was to send someone into a location, pretend to be poor and broke, go around asking for money, and when someone would open their door, they would take a quick peek inside to see what the howmeowners' had in that immediate room. Then would come back later thru the back door and clean the place out. The second house they hit, the owners happened to be there; they were tied up (although oddly enough not at gun point; the paper stated that one had a baseball bat and the other a gold club!) while the crooks robbed the house. A neighbor in his backyard saw the crooks going out the back door with the stolen goods and called the police.

This very same thing was done to me in 1999; expect the guys were asking for money for their kids who they claimed had asthma. They came thru the back door and got everything in thel living room, which they could see thru the front door when I opened it.



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