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Liveloved -> RE: Ongoing Bible Study (7/3/2009 6:48:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: IwillseekHim

Is being humble and being meek the same thing?

Also, what is the bible verse that says something along these lines... If My people, who are called by My name, humble themselves before me.... I will heal their land? I don't think that is the exact wording, but it is the verse that has come to my mind all day with this bible study. I can't find it in my husband's bible and that is the only bible I have handy at the moment. Please advise. Thanks. It is an important scripture worthy of discussing if we are discussing humility/humbling ourselves before our Creator.


The scripture is II Chronicles 7:14.

Humility and meekness are similar and often used interchangably. I know the passage that speaks of Moses being the most humble is sometimes translated meekest. I'll wait and hear what others say.



IwillseekHim -> RE: Ongoing Bible Study (7/3/2009 7:59:15 PM)

Thanks, this is the verse I was referring to!
2 Chronicles 7:14 - if My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.

And Livedloved, it is interesting that you refer to the verse about Moses being described as the meekest man. Was this the reason he chose Moses to lead His people? I read that last night which got me questioning was being humble the same as being meek[;)]. (I seriously need a concordance, because of course, I cant find that verse tonight either. Does anyone know?

Just referring to these two scriptures, it leads me to believe God requires His children to learn humility and live it accordingly. Sounds like this is what He wants us to do......If we learn to humble ourselves, He is faithful to fulfill His promises. As individuals and as a people of this nation, isnt this what He says we ought to do?



prayn4u -> RE: Ongoing Bible Study (7/3/2009 8:39:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: IwillseekHim
...And Livedloved, it is interesting that you refer to the verse about Moses being described as the meekest man. Was this the reason he chose Moses to lead His people? I read that last night which got me questioning was being humble the same as being meek[;)]. (I seriously need a concordance, because of course, I cant find that verse tonight either. Does anyone know?...
I believe this might be the verse being referred to:
Numbers 12:3 (NKJV) ~ (Now the man Moses was very humble, more than all men who were on the face of the earth.) ~

quote:

ORIGINAL: sparkleingsnow
...As for me, I would like one of our topics to be how we're to treat each other (we've already touched on that a bit).
I think these verses are some more of which address how we're to treat each other. Tolerance might be tricky for some because we all have our different ideas and experiences and knowledge. What is right for one, may seem wrong for another.
Ephesians 4:1-3 (NAS)
Therefore I, the prisoner of the Lord, implore you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called, with all humility and gentleness, with patience, showing tolerance for one another in love, being diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.


This one seems to speak directly about humility in correction. That is a tough one... correcting someone but yet conveying that you care about the person desiring for them to know the truth that they may not feel you are just trying to point out any "wrongs"[&:]. 2 Timothy2:24-25 (NKJV) And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth,



sparkleingsnow -> RE: Ongoing Bible Study (7/3/2009 9:33:20 PM)

There's been some very good verses posted since I was on. :)

Numbers 12:3 (Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men which were upon the face of the earth.) (KJV)

Here is how Strong's defines meek as used in this verse.

[Heb. 6035] `anav (aw-nawv')

or (by intermixture with 6041) Aanayv {aw-nawv'}; from 6031; depressed (figuratively), in mind (gentle) or circumstances (needy, especially saintly):--humble, lowly, meek, poor.



Liveloved -> RE: Ongoing Bible Study (7/3/2009 9:56:59 PM)

I don't think Moses was chosen because he was the meekest man.

I think that is the result of his walking with the Lord and being tried and proven.

It is our willingness not our ability that leads to God's work in us.

God is able in any man.

Are you willing?



RustyCarr -> RE: Ongoing Bible Study (7/4/2009 12:04:10 PM)

Hmmmm...... I have read several posts commenting on the "meekness" of Moses. "My spirit," the Holy Spirit rather, is telling me that these posts are leaning more and more focused on Moses's "humbleness and meekness." Maybe this is due to the old, "Men are from Mars, and Women are from Venus," thing.

HAVE YOU FORGOTTEN THAT MOSES HAD THE AUDACITY, THE COURAGE, THE FAITH, THE CONFIDENCE, THE ARROGANCE TO CONFRONT PHAROAH, THE KING OF THE MOST POWERFUL NATION ON EARTH? My what pride Moses must have had! My what arrogance he must have harbored in his heart to find the audacity to tell the king of Egypt what to do!

So you see? We must FIRST be humble and meek to God, serving Him without complaint and God will give you courage, boldness, and the armor of God. Moses was so meek serving God that he took on way too much himself. It took Jethro to tell Moses to divide the work of judging, and settling the disputes among the people, between the leaders of the twelve tribes.

Moses was one of the "unique." He had life experiences quite different from his family, extended relatives, friends, and neighbors. He was raised in the house of pharaoh and given an education in all that was known among the people of that time. Then Moses got an education in the family of Abraham and all that was known and preserved through Abraham's descendents. Then Moses had a unique encounter with the Author of Truth, God Himself. Moses was given commands to carry out for God. Moses obeyed in all meekness and humility toward God.

We Christians have been given a command, too. Mt 28:19, 20 "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

In fullfilling our "Great Commission" we are to use the gifts of the spirit, ALL OF THEM, not neglecting one over the other. We will have need of all of them, for instance Moses, like all of us, got angry and frustrated, and in that anger Moses sinned, he disobeyed a command from God when he struck the rock a second time. Then, of course, the consequences followed. Moses would not enter into the promised land.

Wonderful ladies, do not forget that courage, boldness, and audacity are part of God's FULLNESS of the Holy Spirit. Remember Steven who had the audacity to tell the pharasees "what was what!" Acts 6:8 thru 7:60

May I be so bold as to say this, My heart grieves over the feminization of men in this country. I cannot find upright men of courage to stand with me. There is so much deception, filth, and nonsense crippling the minds of our children.... When will fathers wake up? Don't you love and respect a courageous and bold and protective and wise man/husband? Shall the men of this country bow down and be trampled by the rule of ungodly government which even decieves our children by corrupting government school curriculum?

Mt 5:13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men.
Mt 5:14 “You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden.
Mt 5:15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house.
Mt 5:16 In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.

Let your light shine by training up your children to love correctly in God, and then the world will see the love of man and wife, and of brother and sister in Christ.

Blessings,
Rusty



IwillseekHim -> RE: Ongoing Bible Study (7/4/2009 12:11:11 PM)

I simply brought up Moses because I read he was the meekest man and I was asking was being humbled and being meek relatively the same thing....



RustyCarr -> RE: Ongoing Bible Study (7/4/2009 12:18:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: IwillseekHim

I simply brought up Moses because I read he was the meekest man and I was asking was being humbled and being meek relatively the same thing....


Forgive me for being so frank in that last post.
Blessings,
Rusty



IwillseekHim -> RE: Ongoing Bible Study (7/4/2009 12:21:17 PM)

ur forgiven[;)]. And, just to let you know, Mr. Rusty, I totally agree with you concerning your passion about the need for Godly men and Godly fathers. I am concerned for this generation of young boys. Have a great 4th.



Liveloved -> RE: Ongoing Bible Study (7/4/2009 3:15:06 PM)

Meekness is controlled strength. To 'meek' a horse is to break it, train it.

The Lord 'meeks' us through His discipline as well. Job's life is a good example (albeit extreme?) for the Lord's disciplining work in a life.

Discipline is training in righteousness. So the Lord trains us, 'meeks' us, by the experiences we go through in life.

Moses had to be 'meeked' in order for God to use him. In his own strength, he killed a man. That is uncontrolled passion.

This training does not occur over night. It is one experience after another by which we are trained. But God says the result is the peaceful fruit of righteousness.



RustyCarr -> RE: Ongoing Bible Study (7/4/2009 6:26:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Liveloved

Meekness is controlled strength. To 'meek' a horse is to break it, train it.

The Lord 'meeks' us through His discipline as well. Job's life is a good example (albeit extreme?) for the Lord's disciplining work in a life.

Discipline is training in righteousness. So the Lord trains us, 'meeks' us, by the experiences we go through in life.

Moses had to be 'meeked' in order for God to use him. In his own strength, he killed a man. That is uncontrolled passion.

This training does not occur over night. It is one experience after another by which we are trained. But God says the result is the peaceful fruit of righteousness.


Good post, Liveloved, but I would add for fullness of understanding:

Moses got training WHILE he stood firm in the face of ungodly opposition.
The same for David when he stood against Goliath.

In this fallen world full of evil and evil misguided men, we will face enemies who seek to destroy us through deception and by force. Much of the Bible reads of many brave men who put on the Armor of God and stood against the enemy, deception and violence in high places... In fact, I don't recall any respectable wimps written about in the Bible, at all.

I'm glad you have found the "peaceful fruit of righteousness." Now, can you pass that on to future generations? I'd like to, but I can't find a peaceful place to lay my head. Some ignorant ungodly fellow citizen keeps coming along and kicking me between the eyes. I'm serious! What has God got in mind for me with this kind of training?

Rusty



sparkleingsnow -> RE: Ongoing Bible Study (7/5/2009 9:38:16 AM)

Rusty, I agree with you that men and women are different. The Good Lord made us that way. And I agree that we need "Godly" men in this nation. I pray for the Lord to give us more Godly men and Godly fathers.

Meekness and humbleness is not the same thing as being a whimp.
For example a humble man may choose to avoid a fight knowing it is not the wise or Godly way to behave, while a whimp would run away from a fight out of fear.

What you say about Moses just is not backed up by scripture.

quote:

HAVE YOU FORGOTTEN THAT MOSES HAD THE AUDACITY, THE COURAGE, THE FAITH, THE CONFIDENCE, THE ARROGANCE TO CONFRONT PHAROAH, THE KING OF THE MOST POWERFUL NATION ON EARTH? My what pride Moses must have had! My what arrogance he must have harbored in his heart to find the audacity to tell the king of Egypt what to do!


Nowhere in God's word does it say or imply that Moses was prideful or arrogant. Yes he was raised in pharoah's court for 40 years. He spent the next 40 working for his father-in-law.

It is not us "ladys" saying that Moses was meek. It is God's word.

Numbers 12:3 (Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men which were upon the face of the earth.) (KJV)

Moses tried to get the Lord to pick someone else to lead. Does that sound prideful or arrogant to You?

Exodus 3:11 And Moses said unto God, Who am I, that I should go unto Pharaoh, and that I should bring forth the children of Israel out of Egypt?

Two times he told the Lord that the people wouldn't believe him. Then he tried to get out of it by saying he couldn't speak well.

Exodus 4:10 And Moses said unto the LORD, O my Lord, I am not eloquent, neither heretofore, nor since thou hast spoken unto thy servant: but I am slow of speech, and of a slow tongue.

Exodus 4:13 And he said, O my Lord, send, I pray thee, by the hand of him whom thou wilt send.
14 And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Moses, and he said, Is not Aaron the Levite thy brother? I know that he can speak well.

At this point the Lord was getting angery with Moses.

Now Moses and Aaron did as God told him too. It would seem to me that Moses did obeyed God and was bold in doing so, but it wasn't out of arrogance or pride.

I agree with you that we are to humble ourselfs to the Lord, and to speak up boldly for Him. To follow the lead of the Holy Spirit within us and stand for Him. And I agree with the rest of your post.

One last thing. We need Godly men, oh yes. But by continuing to refer to our gender and such statements as "Wonderful ladies" I get the feeling that I'm being talked down too. [;)]



RustyCarr -> RE: Ongoing Bible Study (7/5/2009 10:09:02 AM)

Sparkleingsnow,
First, I certainly don't want to talk down to anyone, and yes, that may be one of my weaknesses. Many people have taken my demeanor that way. I think of facial expressions and body language, man, I have gotten into trouble with that, too! And how do I control that?
So buck up! I'll treat you like an equal like I am doing right now! EDIT Hmm... I need a friendly giggle here.. how about a smiley[:D]

I am super happy you agree with most of my post. We do need strong men of faith and courage, like Moses, who was at the same time meek and humble toward God and very self conscious, knowing his own weaknesses.

I agree with your post:

quote:

What you say about Moses just is not backed up by scripture.

quote:

HAVE YOU FORGOTTEN THAT MOSES HAD THE AUDACITY, THE COURAGE, THE FAITH, THE CONFIDENCE, THE ARROGANCE TO CONFRONT PHAROAH, THE KING OF THE MOST POWERFUL NATION ON EARTH? My what pride Moses must have had! My what arrogance he must have harbored in his heart to find the audacity to tell the king of Egypt what to do!


Nowhere in God's word does it say or imply that Moses was prideful or arrogant. Yes he was raised in pharoah's court for 40 years. He spent the next 40 working for his father-in-law.

It is not us "ladys" saying that Moses was meek. It is God's word.


I was being sarcastic exposing another perspective that some without the understanding of the Holy Spirit might see. Pharoah must have thought Moses was prideful and arrogant, having the gall to confront him. And Pharoah lacked humility and understanding of right and wrong. He was stuck on himself and his own authority.

Moses was meek, and probably cautious in speaking the Truth to Aaron and others. I'm sure he didn't want to get it wrong! But, in his meek and humble service to God, he did find the courage and boldness and audacity to stand against powerful misguided people, against Pharoah AND doubters among the twelve tribes.

Blessings,
Rusty



IwillseekHim -> RE: Ongoing Bible Study (7/5/2009 10:19:39 AM)

But, didnt Moses find that courage and boldness BECAUSE he was meek and humble before His God? He had doubts but he believed that God would give him the courage to lead because he was humble and he trusted God, right? or no?

Does anyone want to offer suggestions on how to humbly serve God and others? Just a thought....



sparkleingsnow -> RE: Ongoing Bible Study (7/5/2009 11:03:51 AM)

Thanks Rusty. Here's your smile [:D] and a christian hug too. [sm=hug.gif]

You are my brother in Christ. [:)]

Yes, I see what your saying about Moses, and I'm sure pharoah did thing he was arrogant.

On a side note I was thinking of a group who meet (only men) to help them be stronger christian men and husbands and fathers. I can't think of the name of it off the top of my head but I'll post it for you later if you would be interested.


IwillseekHim, yes Moses was strong in the Lord.

quote:

Does anyone want to offer suggestions on how to humbly serve God and others? Just a thought....


My suggestion would be to listen to that little voice that urges you to do things for Him. Even when it's outside your comfort zone. It's trusting Him to help us to do something He wants us to do even when we feel we can't do it. He get's the glory that way, for we already know it wasn't in our power we were doing it, but in His.

The best example I can give is when I felt lead to lead VBS years ago. I didn't want too and I tried to get out of it. It wasn't tell the pastor said that if no one would lead it that we wouldn't have a VBS that I agreed to lead it. I didn't know anything about how to do it.
Well, the Lord brought people to help me and we had a great VBS. It was ALL His doing, not mine. [:)]
I also being a timid person really didn't like the thought of standing up in front of people and talking. Didn't think I could do it. But He gave me the strength to stand up and speak His truths in front of everybody, and even learned to enjoy it! (I'm not nearly so timid nowdays.)

It's putting ourselfs aside and allowing Him to use us to His glory.



IwillseekHim -> RE: Ongoing Bible Study (7/5/2009 12:51:31 PM)

Rita, you are right on! Allowing Him to take me out of my comfort zone is a very humbling experience. I, too, lead VBS a few years ago, under similiar circumstances as yours. Someone needed to step up and I did it. I knew that I would be tried and tested, and believe me I was. Satan hit me from all sides with chronic pain, marital problems(had a very strong marriage up to that point) and finances. But, I give glory to God for this because it made me a strong christian wife and mother through these times.
There are times, even now when I want to have my own pity party. Why me, Lord, why do I have to do this or why is it happening to me... It is then I hear that small, still voice speaking to me saying, You ask for strength, how can I strengthen if I don't put You through this. He says to me, you ask to be used but don't want to get alittle uncomfortable. It's not about what I can do for you, it is about what Melissa is willing to do for ME!



kiwihawaii -> RE: Ongoing Bible Study (7/5/2009 1:12:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: IwillseekHim

Does anyone want to offer suggestions on how to humbly serve God and others? Just a thought....



We learn humility by accepting humiliation (Mother Teresa). The Lord has given, the Lord has taken, bless be the Lord.

My son if you aspire to serve the Lord, prepare your soul for trial… For gold is tried in the fire and the chosen ones in the furnace of humiliation (Eccl 2, 5)



sarju60 -> RE: Ongoing Bible Study (7/5/2009 1:47:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwihawaii


We learn humility by accepting humiliation (Mother Teresa). The Lord has given, the Lord has taken, bless be the Lord.

My son if you aspire to serve the Lord, prepare your soul for trial… For gold is tried in the fire and the chosen ones in the furnace of humiliation (Eccl 2, 5)


I love that quote kiwihawaii, and yes, IwillseekHim, that is how I have always seen Moses. Maybe it is just because I too am timid but I saw Moses as someone who leaned on the Lord and allowed the Lord to work through him no matter how painful it might be. I have had the same experience, Sparkle and IwillseekHim. It has been a blessing when I have allowed God to take me out of my comfort (safety) zone but still I am resistant whenever something new comes us.



IwillseekHim -> RE: Ongoing Bible Study (7/5/2009 2:38:51 PM)

Can we give kiwihawaii a "scripture of the day" award or something for sharing Eccl.2:5, this verse just spoke volumes to my soul[:)]. Wow!



sarju60 -> RE: Ongoing Bible Study (7/5/2009 2:44:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: IwillseekHim

Can we give kiwihawaii a "scripture of the day" award or something for sharing Eccl.2:5, this verse just spoke volumes to my soul[:)]. Wow!


I second that!!



sparkleingsnow -> RE: Ongoing Bible Study (7/5/2009 3:18:55 PM)

quote:

My son if you aspire to serve the Lord, prepare your soul for trial… For gold is tried in the fire and the chosen ones in the furnace of humiliation (Eccl 2, 5)


Will, while I agree with this statment, that is not what Ecclcesiastes 2:5 says.

Ecclesiastes 2:5 I made me gardens and orchards, and I planted trees in them of all kind of fruits: (KJV)

Nor can I find it worded like this anywhere in the Bible, so I have to wonder where this quote is from???



IwillseekHim -> RE: Ongoing Bible Study (7/5/2009 3:24:14 PM)

I just got my bible out, too and perhaps I spoke too quick, I am looking.



IwillseekHim -> RE: Ongoing Bible Study (7/5/2009 3:40:59 PM)

Rita, is there a little smiley icon that has head bent down in shame for not getting my bible out to compare BEFORE I posted...... Just learned another lesson. Thanks[;)]. I am looking desperately but cant find this scripture quoted either.



kiwihawaii -> RE: Ongoing Bible Study (7/5/2009 3:41:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sarju60

quote:

ORIGINAL: IwillseekHim

Can we give kiwihawaii a "scripture of the day" award or something for sharing Eccl.2:5, this verse just spoke volumes to my soul[:)]. Wow!


I second that!!



Thanks IwillseekHim and sarju60 for the joke about a scripture award (lol). [:)]

[8|]Sparkleingsnow, this is not Ecclesiastes but Ecclesiasticus which is probably best known as the book of Sirach. Sorry for the confusion with the abbreviation eccl. May the almighty God bless you forever.



sparkleingsnow -> RE: Ongoing Bible Study (7/5/2009 3:54:58 PM)

OK, I found it. It not from Ecclesiastes. But from Ecclesiasticus a book that is not in our Bible but is in the Catholic Bible.


Ecclesiasticus - Chapter 2
1 My child, if you aspire to serve the Lord, prepare yourself for an ordeal.
2 Be sincere of heart, be steadfast, and do not be alarmed when disaster comes.
3 Cling to him and do not leave him, so that you may be honoured at the end of your days.
4 Whatever happens to you, accept it, and in the uncertainties of your humble state, be patient,
5 since gold is tested in the fire, and the chosen in the furnace of humiliation.

Thanks kiwihawaii, I had just found it on an online Catholic Bible search. [:)]

I don't know bout the icon IwillseekHim, but you don't need one. [:)]
But your right, it is a good lesson about not taking what anyone says for granted, not even a pastor, always check it out in God's word for yourself. hugs.



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