Cramming the damnable medical philosphy down our throats

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justpassinby -> Cramming the damnable medical philosphy down our throats (10/3/2009 10:07:39 PM)
OK folks. We wonder why there's medical conspiracy theories here. Let's take TWO news items lately and put 2 and 2 together, and then we will realize (if we have any brains to think) that some conspiracy theories have basis in fact when we realize cause and effect: 1) If a new health care bill is passed, one element of it was that it was MANDATORY that everyone buy health care (and they compare it to mandatory auto insurance as if it's nothing to worry about). Here's an article about that: http://manzullo.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=139880 2) Now they want to give incentives for people to reduce their health care premiums: i.e. EAT what they think you ought to eat, slim down, watch your cholesterol (even if it means taking drugs) and whatnot OR ELSE pay a higher premium. Here's an example of that: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,287616,00.html Now, let's put put two and two together. Mandatory coverage (point 1), but now a person does not think that high cholesterol (like me) has anything do do with heart disease (point 2). So, what happens? I must FORCEFULLY pay higher premiums of else go to jail for believing something different, and thus the medical philosophy has been jammed down my throat. Even if it is wrong, which it is, but that's not the point here. So, people who believe and think differently are financially punished, perhaps out of existence. I guess in a sense I feel sorry for a medical philosophy (and maybe big drug companies) so shaken by a little peon like me that my philosophy so severely, severely threatens their glass world that it will shatter, so then force me to conform to their erroneous ways and by doing so convince the masses that some of us dissenters have to be kept in check and they are "right" (reminds me of a Twilight Zone series). I've never seen such blatant error, it makes me wonder how any thinking individual can accept all this. Incredible. [8\|] This is truly becoming "1984" just delayed a bit. If anyone out there can't see this, God help you is all I can say.

bondserv65 -> RE: Cramming the damnable medical philosphy down our throats (10/3/2009 10:34:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: justpassinby If anyone out there can't see this, God help you is all I can say. Could not have said all that better myself! And believe me i have tried. But you would be surprised how many people really CANNOT see it. They have all these other objections and do not see the obvious. But at least they are objecting...for a minute there i thought the drug companies were gonna be able to snatch my right to NOT have medical insurance right out from under me without a fight

Milliecat -> RE: Cramming the damnable medical philosphy down our throats (10/3/2009 10:39:52 PM)
Justpassinby, I saw recently on Fox News that Medicare reimbursement to Cardiologists and Oncologists will be decreased and that money that is taken from them will go to Primary Care Physicians who will be emphasizing preventative care. Why? Because Obama believes that both Cancer and Heart Disease are preventable diseases. So punish us through our decreased Medicare benefits. I agree that poor diet and lack of exercise, etc. can cause us to be unhealthy but as a nurse, I have seen people who were young and healthy, ate well and exercised, die of cancer. Some children die of cancer. Forcing people to pay for health care and then punishing them if they don't follow a prescribed diet or lifestyle plan is against our Constitutional rights. But the Constitution seems not to matter anymore. Forcing people to pay for health care alone, is un-Constitutional.

justpassinby -> RE: Cramming the damnable medical philosphy down our throats (10/4/2009 9:40:33 PM)
Bless you both for being able to see this. I thought this would be a better place to post this as I would have been corrected in the health forum of my so-called erroneous ways.

bondserv65 -> RE: Cramming the damnable medical philosphy down our throats (10/4/2009 9:46:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: justpassinby Bless you both for being able to see this. I thought this would be a better place to post this as I would have been corrected in the health forum of my so-called erroneous ways. [:D] Yup or made fun of as i was

cow451 -> RE: Cramming the damnable medical philosphy down our throats (10/5/2009 12:30:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bondserv65 quote: ORIGINAL: justpassinby Bless you both for being able to see this. I thought this would be a better place to post this as I would have been corrected in the health forum of my so-called erroneous ways. [:D] Yup or made fun of as i was Well, Sports Fans, guess what. The "philosophy" of shifting money to prevention and having incentives/disincentive for "lifestyle" is not something The Great One dreamed up. It's been happening for years, and now is ramping up independently of Healthcare so-called Reform. Many employers have penalties for smokers in the form of higher premiums. One employer I know about has higher premiums for people with obesity. If you take drugs for diabetes, you may already have a "health coach" from the insurance company that calls you. Same for cardiac medications. One term used is "Disease Management". If your insurance company and/or your employer aren't doing it yet, they will soon. Again, this is a wave that has been underway for years and will continue even if no bill gets through Congress.

Lapidoth -> RE: Cramming the damnable medical philosphy down our throats (10/5/2009 12:43:49 PM)
From Hillary Care and before, there is the government fixes and fits all attitude. I can see mandating INSURANCE for all like car insurance. But that's catastrophic insurance. My car insurance doesn't pay for tune-ups, changing tires, etc. Catastrophic health insurance would be affordable if it wasn't including every trip to a doctor, and especially the trips others make to the doctors. All this health concerns about obesity and all is being addressed form the wrong angle...................I have solutions, but no one cares about real change and truth. No money in it for all the industries. This had nothing to do with the health of the nation but money, corruption, and power. And the people are kept stirred up by it that we have a revolving one-party system now. One half the party will psuedo leave us alone, the other half wants total control over our lives. Your title is right...............it's the philosophy we are against.

justpassinby -> RE: Cramming the damnable medical philosphy down our throats (10/5/2009 4:17:38 PM)
quote: If you take drugs for diabetes, you may already have a "health coach" from the insurance company that calls you. Same for cardiac medications. One term used is "Disease Management". And what if I as a Christian don't see it this way? What if I choose other methods, even prayer for healing, or natural healing from herbs of the earth? For example, I believe cholesterol medication is the biggest provable con there is (and the same can be said for other "numbers' medication such as BP). This IMO becomes a freedom of religion issue as well. And that especially goes double for someone who maybe never visited a doctor in their lives. The leftist purveyors of these doctrines would take plenty of offense if I tried to cram something even remotely associated with Christianity down their throats, but it's OK for the opposite to take place? I never saw such a more close-minded myopic generation than this one (and ironically they think they are the "open-minded" and enlightened ones).

moon_mouse -> RE: Cramming the damnable medical philosphy down our throats (10/5/2009 4:37:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: justpassinby What if I choose other methods, even prayer for healing, or natural healing from herbs of the earth? The article you linked to doesn't mention having to follow specific treatments to avoid higher premiums (or qualify for lower premiums...same thing, just different semantics). It mentions vital statistics, like weight, cholesterol numbers, blood pressure readings. If you want to use red rice yeast instead of a man-made statin drug, any of these programs I've heard of will not punish you for that, as long as you get your cholesterol numbers under goal. Same with using a faith based weight loss program rather than a secular commercial system to get to a healthy BMI. Premiums differentials like this are determined by actuarial science. In general, people who have high cholesterol, high blood pressure, or who are obese will cost the insurance company more in payouts. Occasionally, an individual will have special circumstances that make them the exception to the rule. For example, BMI charts are not accurate for certain elite athletes. It would be a good idea to have some sort of appeal process for such exceptions. And, I would object to specific drug, procedure, or program therapies being mandated. But as someone who has been able to go off blood pressure medications by lifestyle change, I'd love to have the option to reduce my health insurance premiums like this.

bondserv65 -> RE: Cramming the damnable medical philosphy down our throats (10/5/2009 5:00:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cow451 quote: ORIGINAL: bondserv65 quote: ORIGINAL: justpassinby Bless you both for being able to see this. I thought this would be a better place to post this as I would have been corrected in the health forum of my so-called erroneous ways. [:D] Yup or made fun of as i was Well, Sports Fans, guess what. The "philosophy" of shifting money to prevention and having incentives/disincentive for "lifestyle" is not something The Great One dreamed up. It's been happening for years, and now is ramping up independently of Healthcare so-called Reform. Many employers have penalties for smokers in the form of higher premiums. One employer I know about has higher premiums for people with obesity. If you take drugs for diabetes, you may already have a "health coach" from the insurance company that calls you. Same for cardiac medications. One term used is "Disease Management". If your insurance company and/or your employer aren't doing it yet, they will soon. Again, this is a wave that has been underway for years and will continue even if no bill gets through Congress. Some bill will get through congress and it won't really take all that long. Too soon for my taste anyway. No matter what it is, it will sacrifice the truly poor.

cow451 -> RE: Cramming the damnable medical philosphy down our throats (10/5/2009 5:43:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: justpassinby quote: If you take drugs for diabetes, you may already have a "health coach" from the insurance company that calls you. Same for cardiac medications. One term used is "Disease Management". And what if I as a Christian don't see it this way? What if I choose other methods, even prayer for healing, or natural healing from herbs of the earth? For example, I believe cholesterol medication is the biggest provable con there is (and the same can be said for other "numbers' medication such as BP). This IMO becomes a freedom of religion issue as well. And that especially goes double for someone who maybe never visited a doctor in their lives. The leftist purveyors of these doctrines would take plenty of offense if I tried to cram something even remotely associated with Christianity down their throats, but it's OK for the opposite to take place? I never saw such a more close-minded myopic generation than this one (and ironically they think they are the "open-minded" and enlightened ones). This is not a "leftist" doctrine. It's bipartisan. Do you think insurance companies are run by Liberals, LOL?

justpassinby -> RE: Cramming the damnable medical philosphy down our throats (10/5/2009 6:01:42 PM)
quote: I've heard of will not punish you for that, as long as you get your cholesterol numbers under goal. That's my point. There are two ways to look at medicine. One is the means used to achieve a common goal i.e. medicine vs natural. That's not solely my point. The other disagreement is whether the goal is similar. Frankly, I don't give a hoot what my cholesterol numbers are. Just as many people with low cholesterol as with high develop heart disease. And that takes into consideration LDL and HDL, too. So some of us disagree that high cholesterol is a problem, so why must I be "forced" to lower it (and those with lower numbers tend to have higher incidents of illness, poor resistance, cancer, etc) I make it a point to eat plenty of egg yolks and supplement on the stuff, and I resent anyone who "doesn't like my numbers" based on junk science (and perhaps greedy drug companies married to government or insurance companies), and then mandate "to get my numbers down with drugs or whatever way possible". Everyone is brainwashed into thinking "this is bad, get it under control" without questioning anything.

cow451 -> RE: Cramming the damnable medical philosphy down our throats (10/5/2009 6:07:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: justpassinby quote: I've heard of will not punish you for that, as long as you get your cholesterol numbers under goal. That's my point. There are two ways to look at medicine. One is the means used to achieve a common goal i.e. medicine vs natural. That's not solely my point. The other disagreement is whether the goal is similar. Frankly, I don't give a hoot what my cholesterol numbers are. Just as many people with low cholesterol as with high develop heart disease. And that takes into consideration LDL and HDL, too. So some of us disagree that high cholesterol is a problem, so why must I be "forced" to lower it (and those with lower numbers tend to have higher incidents of illness, poor resistance, cancer, etc) I make it a point to eat plenty of egg yolks and supplement on the stuff, and I resent anyone who "doesn't like my numbers" based on junk science (and perhaps greedy drug companies married to government or insurance companies), and then mandate "to get my numbers down with drugs or whatever way possible". Everyone is brainwashed into thinking "this is bad, get it under control" without questioning anything. The good news is that as long as you don't use prescription meds and don't get sick, they tend to leave you alone IF you don't smoke and/or have a high BMI.

rlj -> RE: Cramming the damnable medical philosphy down our throats (10/6/2009 7:12:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cow451 quote: ORIGINAL: bondserv65 quote: ORIGINAL: justpassinby Bless you both for being able to see this. I thought this would be a better place to post this as I would have been corrected in the health forum of my so-called erroneous ways. [:D] Yup or made fun of as i was Well, Sports Fans, guess what. The "philosophy" of shifting money to prevention and having incentives/disincentive for "lifestyle" is not something The Great One dreamed up. It's been happening for years, and now is ramping up independently of Healthcare so-called Reform. Many employers have penalties for smokers in the form of higher premiums. One employer I know about has higher premiums for people with obesity. If you take drugs for diabetes, you may already have a "health coach" from the insurance company that calls you. Same for cardiac medications. One term used is "Disease Management". If your insurance company and/or your employer aren't doing it yet, they will soon. Again, this is a wave that has been underway for years and will continue even if no bill gets through Congress. Wouldn't it be less work, less hassle and most importantly cost less money to simply set up death panels and do away with those who cost the system too much? [;)]

bondserv65 -> RE: Cramming the damnable medical philosphy down our throats (10/6/2009 9:57:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rlj quote: ORIGINAL: cow451 quote: ORIGINAL: bondserv65 quote: ORIGINAL: justpassinby Bless you both for being able to see this. I thought this would be a better place to post this as I would have been corrected in the health forum of my so-called erroneous ways. [:D] Yup or made fun of as i was Well, Sports Fans, guess what. The "philosophy" of shifting money to prevention and having incentives/disincentive for "lifestyle" is not something The Great One dreamed up. It's been happening for years, and now is ramping up independently of Healthcare so-called Reform. Many employers have penalties for smokers in the form of higher premiums. One employer I know about has higher premiums for people with obesity. If you take drugs for diabetes, you may already have a "health coach" from the insurance company that calls you. Same for cardiac medications. One term used is "Disease Management". If your insurance company and/or your employer aren't doing it yet, they will soon. Again, this is a wave that has been underway for years and will continue even if no bill gets through Congress. Wouldn't it be less work, less hassle and most importantly cost less money to simply set up death panels and do away with those who cost the system too much? [;)] LOL..perhaps .... i'll volunteer to be one who dies

bondserv65 -> RE: Cramming the damnable medical philosphy down our throats (10/6/2009 9:59:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rlj quote: ORIGINAL: cow451 quote: ORIGINAL: bondserv65 quote: ORIGINAL: justpassinby Bless you both for being able to see this. I thought this would be a better place to post this as I would have been corrected in the health forum of my so-called erroneous ways. [:D] Yup or made fun of as i was Well, Sports Fans, guess what. The "philosophy" of shifting money to prevention and having incentives/disincentive for "lifestyle" is not something The Great One dreamed up. It's been happening for years, and now is ramping up independently of Healthcare so-called Reform. Many employers have penalties for smokers in the form of higher premiums. One employer I know about has higher premiums for people with obesity. If you take drugs for diabetes, you may already have a "health coach" from the insurance company that calls you. Same for cardiac medications. One term used is "Disease Management". If your insurance company and/or your employer aren't doing it yet, they will soon. Again, this is a wave that has been underway for years and will continue even if no bill gets through Congress. Wouldn't it be less work, less hassle and most importantly cost less money to simply set up death panels and do away with those who cost the system too much? [;)] Oh, no wait. The health care reform thing is about making sure the insurance companies make more money. Hard to make dead people pay. Nah they want us all alive.

justpassinby -> RE: Cramming the damnable medical philosphy down our throats (10/6/2009 11:36:21 PM)
quote: Wouldn't it be less work, less hassle and most importantly cost less money to simply set up death panels and do away with those who cost the system too much? Yes, and the one's who they say will one day cost the system too much because of blood work numbers are not right, they weigh a little too much or the BP is a little high should also be killed because the risk of disease and premature death is higher. Only Tofu-eating, drugged-up greenies that have a 15 BMI and BP's something like 80/30 and are devoid of salt and are exercisolics that workout 5 hours a day should be the only one's deemed healthy enough to be allowed to live. And they definitely won't load the system (because the medical establishment deemed them healthy). They have an average life expectancy of under 50 years because most of them drop over dead while jogging, or become salt deficient or get eaten away with cancer. So, Medicare and eldercare won't have to take care of them like they presently do for us 80-year-old fat and "unhealthy" people with high cholesterol who they say ought to be dead by now (but aren't). But who cares if the "healthy" ones die earlier? As they always say, quality is better than quantity (of years) That's about it in a nutshell (it's true!) hahahahahaha [:D]

rlj -> RE: Cramming the damnable medical philosphy down our throats (10/7/2009 7:44:09 AM)
I'm glad I found a health care plan thread with a few people that have a sense of humour. Of course the thread is also in the Conspiracy Folder. [sm=funny.gif]

cow451 -> RE: Cramming the damnable medical philosphy down our throats (10/7/2009 3:36:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rlj quote: ORIGINAL: cow451 quote: ORIGINAL: bondserv65 quote: ORIGINAL: justpassinby Bless you both for being able to see this. I thought this would be a better place to post this as I would have been corrected in the health forum of my so-called erroneous ways. [:D] Yup or made fun of as i was Well, Sports Fans, guess what. The "philosophy" of shifting money to prevention and having incentives/disincentive for "lifestyle" is not something The Great One dreamed up. It's been happening for years, and now is ramping up independently of Healthcare so-called Reform. Many employers have penalties for smokers in the form of higher premiums. One employer I know about has higher premiums for people with obesity. If you take drugs for diabetes, you may already have a "health coach" from the insurance company that calls you. Same for cardiac medications. One term used is "Disease Management". If your insurance company and/or your employer aren't doing it yet, they will soon. Again, this is a wave that has been underway for years and will continue even if no bill gets through Congress. Wouldn't it be less work, less hassle and most importantly cost less money to simply set up death panels and do away with those who cost the system too much? [;)] Fellow intellectual giant Sarah L. Palin (whose name calculates to 666, BTW) and I are working on this project. Admittedly not feverishly, however. I wonder if she will mention me in her forthcoming book.

rlj -> RE: Cramming the damnable medical philosphy down our throats (10/7/2009 5:35:47 PM)
quote: Fellow intellectual giant Sarah L. Palin (whose name calculates to 666, BTW) and I are working on this project. Admittedly not feverishly, however. I wonder if she will mention me in her forthcoming book. I think she should be more worried about getting the mark on us than about the death panels, so that makes sense.

cow451 -> RE: Cramming the damnable medical philosphy down our throats (10/8/2009 12:42:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rlj quote: Fellow intellectual giant Sarah L. Palin (whose name calculates to 666, BTW) and I are working on this project. Admittedly not feverishly, however. I wonder if she will mention me in her forthcoming book. I think she should be more worried about getting the mark on us than about the death panels, so that makes sense. We need a "rim shot" smiley.[sm=crazy.gif]

Pat-rebel_lady -> RE: Cramming the damnable medical philosphy down our throats (10/8/2009 5:19:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Milliecat Justpassinby, I saw recently on Fox News that Medicare reimbursement to Cardiologists and Oncologists will be decreased and that money that is taken from them will go to Primary Care Physicians who will be emphasizing preventative care. Why? Because Obama believes that both Cancer and Heart Disease are preventable diseases. So punish us through our decreased Medicare benefits. Guess Who Has the Highest Medical Claim Rejection Rate? quote: The Medicare denial rate found in the study was, on a weighted average basis, roughly 1.7 times that of all of the private carriers combined (99,025 divided by 2,447,216 is 4.05%; 6.85% divided by 4.05% =1.69). You would think Medicare's sheer size might enable it to have smoother procedures with its providers that would enable it to turn down a lower percentage of claims. But no, this is the government we're talking about. So who's the most "heartless" now? And why should Americans accept the idea of gradually being forced into a government-run system when, based on documented government experience, they will be more likely to see their claims denied? And I didn't even get to the idea of refusals to treat in the first place, something that is present to some degree in virtually every state-run system, but is currently against the law in hospital emergency rooms in the U.S. Link w/ Chart

tacitus -> RE: Cramming the damnable medical philosphy down our throats (10/8/2009 6:00:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: justpassinby Bless you both for being able to see this. I thought this would be a better place to post this as I would have been corrected in the health forum of my so-called erroneous ways. Well if you stopped giving people who are clearly in need of medical attention over there dangerous advice like telling them to blow off their doctors, perhaps you wouldn't be call on the carpet quite so often. The Conspiracy folder is the perfect place for this type of stuff.... Carry on...

cow451 -> RE: Cramming the damnable medical philosphy down our throats (10/8/2009 6:20:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Pat-rebel_lady quote: ORIGINAL: Milliecat Justpassinby, I saw recently on Fox News that Medicare reimbursement to Cardiologists and Oncologists will be decreased and that money that is taken from them will go to Primary Care Physicians who will be emphasizing preventative care. Why? Because Obama believes that both Cancer and Heart Disease are preventable diseases. So punish us through our decreased Medicare benefits. Guess Who Has the Highest Medical Claim Rejection Rate? quote: The Medicare denial rate found in the study was, on a weighted average basis, roughly 1.7 times that of all of the private carriers combined (99,025 divided by 2,447,216 is 4.05%; 6.85% divided by 4.05% =1.69). You would think Medicare's sheer size might enable it to have smoother procedures with its providers that would enable it to turn down a lower percentage of claims. But no, this is the government we're talking about. So who's the most "heartless" now? And why should Americans accept the idea of gradually being forced into a government-run system when, based on documented government experience, they will be more likely to see their claims denied? And I didn't even get to the idea of refusals to treat in the first place, something that is present to some degree in virtually every state-run system, but is currently against the law in hospital emergency rooms in the U.S. Link w/ Chart Medicare is a bit different. Private insuraers do preauthorizations, so that it is easier to estimate reimbursement. Medicare reviews retrospectively and therefore denies more on the back end. IOW, if you get a Cigna authorization, you are pretty certain of payment. Denials are about failure to get preauthorization and using out-of-network providers. Medicare will review records if claims fall outside certain perameters. So it's not really apples-to-apples because the systems are different. Medicare basically tells providers what is covered and providers self-authorize. Privates do the authorization. There are arguments about whether one way is better than the other in the big picture, but that's a complex discussion.

rlj -> RE: Cramming the damnable medical philosphy down our throats (10/8/2009 6:32:28 PM)
Then there is this tidbit on Medicare Fraud: quote: (AP) Lured by easier money and shorter prison sentences, Mafia figures and other violent criminals are increasingly moving into fraud involving the government's Medicare health insurance program for the elderly. Around the U.S., federal investigators have been threatened, an informant's body was found riddled with bullets, and a woman was discovered dead in a pharmacy under investigation, her throat slit with a piece of broken toilet seat. For criminals, Medicare schemes offer a greater payoff and carry much shorter prison sentences than offenses such as drug trafficking or robbery. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/10/07/national/main5368454.shtml

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