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RE: Are Demons the Real Deal? - 10/22/2009 6:13:56 PM
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Liveloved
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quote:
It's time for Christians to come to their senses. Yes, the demons are real. No, they are not responsible for every evil in the world and in your own heart. Best to follow Lewis' advice. Recognize they exist. Do not be caught unaware should they cross your path. But neither be enamored of them. As Lewis said, the demons are just as pleased by those who are infatuated with their activity as they are with atheists who don't believe they exist.
-Intrepidus
I agree with Intrepidus. And when we come to our senses, we find ourselves attached to the Vine where we are safe.
Yes, our battle is not against flesh and blood. If we do not understand this, much of life is spent fighting the wrong battle. We do battle in the spiritual realm with prayer. . . on our knees.
The vine attachment is so important. As we abide in Him and He is us, we are safe from the seducing spirits and doctrines the demonic realm seek to draw us into.
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Liveloved
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Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
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RE: Are Demons the Real Deal? - 10/23/2009 9:56:25 AM
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eterno
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I believe every word of the scriptures so everything that happened concerning demons on the other side of the cross is accurate. I believe that after the crucification and resurrection the power of Christ & the presence of the the HOLY SPIRIT diminished the power of Satan and demons.
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RE: Are Demons the Real Deal? - 10/25/2009 9:26:18 PM
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visus
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yes
< Message edited by visus -- 10/25/2009 9:37:53 PM >
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RE: Are Demons the Real Deal? - 10/27/2009 11:21:52 AM
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DaveW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kelman
The Strongs lexicon uses "lord of the house", though, either could be seen to be Satan since he is described as the "prince of the power of the air" and he certainly is lord of his house. In the OT, we see a similar word which means "lord of the flies". Do you think the OT "baalzebub"(2Kings 1:2) is the same as the NT beelzebub? Absolutely. It is just how it got transliterated over into Greek. Many names got modified in that transition.quote:
The NT uses the word "devil" not demon, correct? And we know that Satan is called a "devil" and that he is a fallen angel. Mat 4:10-11 "Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.[11] Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him." So, I think there is evidence that devils are fallen angels. Well, go back to your strongs and see that "devils" is the KJV translation for daimōn or dahee-mon'-ee-on or variants thereof. Not the same words as for angels at all.quote:
Angels are "all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?"(Heb 1:14). They minister to all believers, in some way. This would be evidence that angels have no bodies since most believers don't think they're seeing angels. When we see them interacting with man they're taking on the appearance of men much as the Lord Jesus did in the OT - christophanies. Although, I believe that many, if not most, of the angelic appearances were the pre-incarnate Christ. So Michael that visited Mary and Daniel was a christophany? I don't think so. The fact that we see angels looking human is a good indicator that they have bodies. Is there any place where a demon is shown in scipture to appear in a physical form? No.
To be sure the angelic bodies are certainly not the same as our physical bodies. When the ressurected Lord appeared on the road to Emaus he was able to disguise his appearance and then just vanish. He was physically (i.e. in His body) raised from the dead so they saw his physical form.
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Demons all seem to want to be in a body (ref the Legion going into the pigs) Yes, the demons/devils do seem to want bodies. Could that actually be evidence of their fallen nature if, in fact, God created angels as spirits and without bodies?quote:
Yes, we do see the devils working mostly through man, but, otoh, we see some working apart or totally "outside" of man. Certainly, the prince of devils worked outside of Job. Isn't it their job, so to speak, to inflict spiritual damage on man? You mean the devil himself. He (satan) is a fallen angel and there are other fallen angels refered to in the NT as "principalities," "powers," etc. Again, these are distinct from demons as they are not called daimōn or dahee-mon'-ee-on.quote:
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The greek words for demons are not the same as for angels, fallen or not. As I mentioned the only word in the NT is devils...I don't see any "demons" :)
Check your concordance. The word for "devil" is diabolos, not the other 2 words I listed.
< Message edited by DaveW -- 10/27/2009 1:28:11 PM >
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We are now empty nesters.......
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RE: Are Demons the Real Deal? - 10/28/2009 2:38:45 PM
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stampinlady
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Rev. 12 talks about Satan's fall with his angels. I just read it today for devotion.
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I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality .... Acts 10:34
"When the fufillment comes the types and shadows cease."
Author unknown
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RE: Are Demons the Real Deal? - 10/29/2009 10:47:21 PM
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agapeflight
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Yes, demons ar real and Paul told Timothy that christ like conduct and the truth are the weapons we have against them. He said those who oppose are taken captive by Satan at his will. Some translations read to do his will but the inference is no less startling. Recall Jesus said to Peter 'Get thee behind me satan!' Was he being metaphorical or was it actually the words of Satan that Peter's flesh picked up and that Peter chose to speak? The enemy is there in the world and he is watching you. But he is not free especially in the lives of believers to just do any old thing. There is a greater purpose in it all.
I agree with most of the posters here that the church is currently sleeping as reagrds the presence and activity of demons, and I wish it were not so since the early church always seemed to recognize them. I know that I typically do now and often ignore them because I know they are not in my path. But sometimes I have been in situations were God burdens me with someone that I cannot get to who I know is possessed. I do not know how others experience it but for me when a demon is present there is a coldness in the air and this which were once graceful and soft become pointed and dark. I see people as having a dark countenance also and this is often a hint that there is demonic activity in their life. Typically the strongholds that the demons inhabit are related to drug use, abuse, but any willingness to embrace sin is all that is necessary.
An interesting verse you might want to consider is in Revelation 18 when it is said of Babylon the Great 'she has become a prison for demons and every foul bird.' There are a few ways to go after this but one way is that Babylon the Great is that mass of humans who took the mark and therefore openly embraced demonic possession whether they knew it or not. America in the last twenty years as far as I can tell has gone from being a little confused but still somewhat under control to looking much mor elike a haunt of demons.
Don't be afraid of them, even if they try to make you afraid, pray agains that fear, but also don't be so foolish as to ignore them, you have authority over them in the Name of Jesus. Just don't mess with this stuff unless you are sure you know the Lord, remember the seven sons of sceva.
God bless.
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RE: Are Demons the Real Deal? - 10/30/2009 5:31:12 AM
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kelman
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
quote:
The NT uses the word "devil" not demon, correct? And we know that Satan is called a "devil" and that he is a fallen angel. Mat 4:10-11 "Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.[11] Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him." So, I think there is evidence that devils are fallen angels.
Well, go back to your strongs and see that "devils" is the KJV translation for daimōn or dahee-mon'-ee-on or variants thereof. Not the same words as for angels at all. I never said it was the same word, obviously, it is not. However, the fact is that Satan is an angel and he is also referred to as a devil. How then can it be said that devils aren't angels?
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quote:
Angels are "all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?"(Heb 1:14). They minister to all believers, in some way. This would be evidence that angels have no bodies since most believers don't think they're seeing angels. When we see them interacting with man they're taking on the appearance of men much as the Lord Jesus did in the OT - christophanies. Although, I believe that many, if not most, of the angelic appearances were the pre-incarnate Christ.
So Michael that visited Mary and Daniel was a christophany? I don't think so. The fact that we see angels looking human is a good indicator that they have bodies. Is there any place where a demon is shown in scipture to appear in a physical form? No. It was Gabriel who visited Mary and there's no reason why this was not the pre-incarnate Lord. As for Michael, I personally think there's little doubt this was, God, the Lord Jesus Chrsit.
quote:
Is there any place where a demon is shown in scipture to appear in a physical form? No. Aside from Satan taking the form of a serpent in the Garden, no, I can't think of any. Besides, it's probable that fallen angels have no power to take on human form. If good angels take on human form, it would for God's purposes and by His authority.
quote:
To be sure the angelic bodies are certainly not the same as our physical bodies. When the ressurected Lord appeared on the road to Emaus he was able to disguise his appearance and then just vanish. He was physically (i.e. in His body) raised from the dead so they saw his physical form.
Scripture says angels are ministering spirits. That means they do not have any type of physical body. If any of these visitation were truly angels, they were sent by God to deal with humans and would, therefore, have been given human body....for that purpose.
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Yes, we do see the devils working mostly through man, but, otoh, we see some working apart or totally "outside" of man. Certainly, the prince of devils worked outside of Job. Isn't it their job, so to speak, to inflict spiritual damage on man?
You mean the devil himself. He (satan) is a fallen angel and there are other fallen angels refered to in the NT as "principalities," "powers," etc. Again, these are distinct from demons as they are not called daimōn or dahee-mon'-ee-on. Scripture doesn't differentiate between devils and fallen angels. Satan is called "the devil", he is also called "Beelzebub the prince of the devils". Mat 25:41 references Satan as - "the devil and his angels". How then can these angels not be devils? We really don't know precisely what is meant by "principalities"....could be angels, but, maybe not.
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beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow
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RE: Are Demons the Real Deal? - 11/2/2009 1:08:50 PM
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DaveW
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Kelman - you have 3 classes of evil beings presented in scripture:
the devil himself (1 character)
fallen angels (1/3 of the original heavenly hosts0
demons.
I have shown in scripture the different words for all 3 classes yet you keep trying to lump them all together, perhaps because the modern day understanding of the term "devil" is different than the original which meant adversary. All 3 are adversaries and in that sense "devils." But hasatan, "THE ADVERSARY" and the principalities and powers are NOT from the greek words transliterated as demon.
They are different classes of beings.
Satan is NOT a demon. Fallen angels are NOT demons. Nowhere are they referenced by the words daimōn or dahee-mon'-ee-on which are properly translated (in modern language usage) as "demons."
_____________________________
Avatar is my son Caleb and Leah on their wedding 12/20/09
We are now empty nesters.......
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: Are Demons the Real Deal? - 11/5/2009 3:38:34 AM
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kelman
Posts: 5256
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
Kelman - you have 3 classes of evil beings presented in scripture:
the devil himself (1 character)
fallen angels (1/3 of the original heavenly hosts0
demons.
I have shown in scripture the different words for all 3 classes yet you keep trying to lump them all together, perhaps because the modern day understanding of the term "devil" is different than the original which meant adversary. It's true I lump them together because we don't find any reference to the creation of "demons" only to that of man and the angels. Unless, we want to see some type of implicit creation of demons in Col 1:16?
We know that God created everything “good” so He wouldn’t have created “demons”…. did these beings “fall” as did the angels? Too many questions with no answers.
Possibly the Greek word "daimon" is used when the "fallen angels" inhabit a body? That appears to be how most of the references are used for demons. Although, we do find Satan and his devils working in men also(Eph 2:2; John 13:2; Acts 5:3).
quote:
Satan is NOT a demon. Fallen angels are NOT demons. Nowhere are they referenced by the words daimōn or dahee-mon'-ee-on which are properly translated (in modern language usage) as "demons." We do know that hell was created for Satan and his angels and to which unsaved man is also consigned. Where do the demons fit into this equation? Why does God neglect mentioning neither their creation or eternal destiny?
From Mat 12:24-27; Mark 3:22 and Luke 11:15-19, we know that Satan and Beelzebub are one in the same and that he is the “prince of demons”, demons who are under his authority. And, of course, we see plenty of references to Satan and his angels.
Seems to me that while there may be a difference in methods, evil spirits, demons, devils and fallen angels are used interchangeably. Sort of like the NT uses the term bishop, elders, and presbyters interchangeably.
I’m not trying to be contrary, it's just that this is new ground for me. I never gave the issue much thought. Actually, I never thought there was an issue.
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beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow
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RE: Are Demons the Real Deal? - 11/5/2009 11:37:56 AM
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DaveW
Posts: 3961
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The bible does not have EVERY shred of information on every possible subject.
If God wanted us to know where demons came from and where they end up He would have put it in the word. So that means that those questions are not important, at least not important enough to warrant page space in His Word. It is pointless for us to speculate on those issues. It is enough for us to see what WAS recorded - that they do not have bodies, they seek to inhabit humans and animals, that they are subject to the name of Jesus. And that they are described differently than angels (fallen or not) are.
Leave it at that. We do not have to have the answer to every question.
_____________________________
Avatar is my son Caleb and Leah on their wedding 12/20/09
We are now empty nesters.......
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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