Community

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It was the dems that yelled "Viet Nam Quagmire"
while Bush at least went "TO WIN." It was the PC
that made Viet Nam a Quagmire, and it's Obama
that is making this one a Quagmire with his dithering.

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ORIGINAL: tafkam

Well, if you remember, the Dems were also predicting gloom and doom in the run up to Afghanistan, as well.

But you have to remember, good news out of that region is bad news for them politically.....

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ORIGINAL: tafkam

Well, if you remember, the Dems were also predicting gloom and doom in the run up to Afghanistan, as well.

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Well no I don't recall that tafkam.

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ORIGINAL: Lapidoth

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ORIGINAL: tafkam

Who told you we're overextended? My friends in the service right now tell me that the main reason we're unable to make much headway is because of the politicians in DC who aren't willing to commit the necessary resources to win this war....

AMEN.......................we are under extended.

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ORIGINAL: davemiller7

I wholeheartedly agree, RC. Carpet bombing, in addition to destroying the enemies' war-making capability, it also struck fear in citizens' hearts and minds. It made them begin to rethink their leaders' policies.

And concerning "collateral damage," many Islamic families prepare their children from 5 years old to become suicide/homicide bombers. It's for the "glory" of Islam. How can we deal with that without being looked upon as being child killers? "Surgical strikes" won't solve that problem.

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ORIGINAL: tafkam

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Well no I don't recall that tafkam.

Wow, who'da thunk it?

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Yeah, restoring America's reputation abroad and avoiding a full blown depression and ending the deepest recession since the war. Terrible record so far. /sarc

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ORIGINAL: iluvatar

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ORIGINAL: davemiller7

I wholeheartedly agree, RC. Carpet bombing, in addition to destroying the enemies' war-making capability, it also struck fear in citizens' hearts and minds. It made them begin to rethink their leaders' policies.

And concerning "collateral damage," many Islamic families prepare their children from 5 years old to become suicide/homicide bombers. It's for the "glory" of Islam. How can we deal with that without being looked upon as being child killers? "Surgical strikes" won't solve that problem.

LOL, you guys are too much. Do any of you actually bother trying to grasp the nature of the conflict over there or do you just want to lob bombs at a bunch of people and hope to eventually kill them all?

-Dan.

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ORIGINAL: davemiller7

Well, I'd love to hear your solution. Do you have one or do you just want to disagree with everyone who proposes something?

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ORIGINAL: rlj

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ORIGINAL: StephK

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ORIGINAL: tafkam

Well, if you remember, the Dems were also predicting gloom and doom in the run up to Afghanistan, as well.

But you have to remember, good news out of that region is bad news for them politically.....

It was like all of the anti-war hippies were reliving their "glory days". Too bad they won the propaganda war.

Why? The Dems were in favor of Afghanistan and I have seen nothing to convince me that a majority of them are against it. So no, I don't remember any kind of doom and gloom in the run up to Afghanistan.

If the right would learn that there are two conflicts over there and not one, it'll make it easier for everyone.

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ORIGINAL: StephK

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ORIGINAL: rlj

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ORIGINAL: StephK

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ORIGINAL: tafkam

Well, if you remember, the Dems were also predicting gloom and doom in the run up to Afghanistan, as well.

But you have to remember, good news out of that region is bad news for them politically.....

It was like all of the anti-war hippies were reliving their "glory days". Too bad they won the propaganda war.

Why? The Dems were in favor of Afghanistan and I have seen nothing to convince me that a majority of them are against it. So no, I don't remember any kind of doom and gloom in the run up to Afghanistan.

If the right would learn that there are two conflicts over there and not one, it'll make it easier for everyone.

Oh good heavens, you don't think I know that there are two conflicts going on? As soon as the first casualty happened there was a noticeable shift in support by the left-over antiwar hippies, who just happened to be in the media and academia.

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Oh good heavens, you don't think I know that there are two conflicts going on? As soon as the first casualty happened there was a noticeable shift in support by the left-over antiwar hippies, who just happened to be in the media and academia.

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ORIGINAL: iluvatar

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ORIGINAL: davemiller7

Well, I'd love to hear your solution. Do you have one or do you just want to disagree with everyone who proposes something?

"Winning the hearts and minds" is the idea - this is as much a PR war as anything else. We have to give the people over there a reason to not join up with the Taliban/AQ. Indiscriminate carpet bombing doesn't do anything to "destroy their war-making capabilities." They don't have big bases w/ large fuel & ammo depots. They have caches of machine guns and cleaning supplies in the basement of a house in the middle of a neighborhood. Carpet bombing a neighborhood to destroy some weapons is counterproductive, because it turns the local population against us making it harder for us to acquire intel and making it easier for the Taliban/AQ to find new recruits.

There's also the fact that carpet bombing needlessly kills innocent people - something which we as "pro-life" Christians ought to find problematic.

-Dan.

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ORIGINAL: cow451

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ORIGINAL: iluvatar

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ORIGINAL: davemiller7

Well, I'd love to hear your solution. Do you have one or do you just want to disagree with everyone who proposes something?

"Winning the hearts and minds" is the idea - this is as much a PR war as anything else. We have to give the people over there a reason to not join up with the Taliban/AQ. Indiscriminate carpet bombing doesn't do anything to "destroy their war-making capabilities." They don't have big bases w/ large fuel & ammo depots. They have caches of machine guns and cleaning supplies in the basement of a house in the middle of a neighborhood. Carpet bombing a neighborhood to destroy some weapons is counterproductive, because it turns the local population against us making it harder for us to acquire intel and making it easier for the Taliban/AQ to find new recruits.

There's also the fact that carpet bombing needlessly kills innocent people - something which we as "pro-life" Christians ought to find problematic.

-Dan.

My friends in the military must be raging liberals (these are vets of Iraq I and II and Afghanistan. One has also worked to train African Union peacekeeping troops). They say that we do not, short of all-out nuclear bombing, have the ability to "wipe-out" the Islamic extremists. A counter-insurgency strategy has to involve building up the locals (Muslims, BTW) and keeping the bad guys at bay in the meantime. They say we have to hold tight until a new generation grows up, having been exposed to ideals beyond the extremists. Crucial will be the women. As more women demand to be treated better, the young men will change as well.

I don't think most US soldiers favor indiscriminate killing. They often talk about how good they feel when they have helped locals get food, shelter and education. "Carpet bombing" doesn't do the job.

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Muslims regard war as a legitimate means of turning people to their religion. A war whose purpose is to bring infidels into submission under Islam is considered jihad, a holy war. Mohammed himself justified and participated in killing and robbery against infidels in the name of Allah. "Convert or die" has always been the most persuasive tool in the Islamic "missionary's" arsenal. And a penchant for death still dominates the radical strains of Islam. Many fundamentalist Muslims believe they are called to wage jihad against infidels. They have also killed other Muslims who do not embrace their fundamentalist fanaticism.

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Throughout the Islamic world, there is a profound and deep-seated animosity toward Israel. That hatred is often transferred to the United States, because historically America has been the primary supporter and friend of Israel. In fact, in many ways, radical Islamists hate America more than they hate Israel. Their literature often refers to Israel as "the small Satan" and to America as "the great Satan."

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ORIGINAL: iluvatar

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ORIGINAL: davemiller7

Well, I'd love to hear your solution. Do you have one or do you just want to disagree with everyone who proposes something?

"Winning the hearts and minds" is the idea - this is as much a PR war as anything else. We have to give the people over there a reason to not join up with the Taliban/AQ. Indiscriminate carpet bombing doesn't do anything to "destroy their war-making capabilities." They don't have big bases w/ large fuel & ammo depots. They have caches of machine guns and cleaning supplies in the basement of a house in the middle of a neighborhood. Carpet bombing a neighborhood to destroy some weapons is counterproductive, because it turns the local population against us making it harder for us to acquire intel and making it easier for the Taliban/AQ to find new recruits.

There's also the fact that carpet bombing needlessly kills innocent people - something which we as "pro-life" Christians ought to find problematic.

-Dan.

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I'm not in favor of slaughtering innocents, but if it becomes necessary, in the course of fighting a war, then it must be done. Bear in mind that those who are against us have no problem with killing innocents and even sacrifice their own to accomplish their goals.

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ORIGINAL: wing2000

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I'm not in favor of slaughtering innocents, but if it becomes necessary, in the course of fighting a war, then it must be done. Bear in mind that those who are against us have no problem with killing innocents and even sacrifice their own to accomplish their goals.

I defer to the commander in Afghanistan who understands counter insurgency warfare:


"Our strategy cannot be focused on seizing terrain or destroying insurgent forces; our objective must be the population. In the struggle to gain the support ofthe people, every action we take must enable this effort.The population also represents a powerful actor that can and must be leveraged in this complex system. Gaining their support will require a better understanding of the people's choices and needs. However, progress is hindered by the dual threat of a resilient insurgency and a crisis of confidence in the government and the international coalition. To win their support, we must protect the people from both of these threats.

Many describe the conflict in Afghanistan as a war of ideas, which I believe to be true. However, this is a 'deeds-based' information environment where perceptions derive from actions, such as how we interact with the population and how quickly things improve. The key to changing perceptions lies in changing the underlying truths. We must never confuse the situation as it stands with the one we desire, lest we risk our credibility."

-Gen. McChrystal
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/21/AR2009092100110.html?sid=ST2009092003140

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In other words: Our troops make excellent cannon fodder. If that is truly the case, we should pull out immediately. It's not worth spending precious American lives on a lost cause.

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ORIGINAL: wing2000

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In other words: Our troops make excellent cannon fodder. If that is truly the case, we should pull out immediately. It's not worth spending precious American lives on a lost cause.

I suspect the General would argue that if you execute military operations without regard for the local population, it will be a lost cause. It's worth noting that the operational success of the "surge" in Iraq was due in part to getting the troops out into the neighborhoods...and staying there. Was it more dangerous? yes...but in the end, it did convince Iraqi's that the Americans were insterested in their security.

On the other hand if we really don't care about the Aghan people...or providing them security, then the best course of action would be to withdraw...and strictly target Al Qaida using drones, special ops etc

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ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
Either declare war and intend to win or tuck our tails behind us and run.
Oh, Obama did the first part [apologizing].

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ORIGINAL: Lapidoth

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ORIGINAL: wing2000

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In other words: Our troops make excellent cannon fodder. If that is truly the case, we should pull out immediately. It's not worth spending precious American lives on a lost cause.

I suspect the General would argue that if you execute military operations without regard for the local population, it will be a lost cause. It's worth noting that the operational success of the "surge" in Iraq was due in part to getting the troops out into the neighborhoods...and staying there. Was it more dangerous? yes...but in the end, it did convince Iraqi's that the Americans were insterested in their security.

On the other hand if we really don't care about the Aghan people...or providing them security, then the best course of action would be to withdraw...and strictly target Al Qaida using drones, special ops etc

Yep, I loved fighting a war having it both ways..........NOT

Either declare war and intend to win or tuck our tails behind us and run.
Oh, Obama did the first part [apologizing].

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ORIGINAL: Tarox

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ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
Either declare war and intend to win or tuck our tails behind us and run.
Oh, Obama did the first part [apologizing].

What does victory in Afghanistan look like? (honest question)

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In other words: Our troops make excellent cannon fodder. If that is truly the case, we should pull out immediately. It's not worth spending precious American lives on a lost cause.

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ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
But here's what General Patton had to say.

They (the germans) want to die for their country.
So make them _ _ _'s die for theirs.

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Great. Turn off the history channel and start talking about today's wars, not the wars of 60+ years ago.

-Dan.