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RE: what does this picture say to you? - 11/14/2009 1:24:20 AM
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kisstheson
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CMT8808
quote:
ORIGINAL: kisstheson
[image] http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/2945/jesusthirst.jpg [/image]
afterwards I'll share what I entitled this painting. Thanks for viewing.
The 23rd Psalms, Yes my cup overflows, thank you Jesus.
CMT
hallelujah!
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RE: what does this picture say to you? - 11/14/2009 10:25:46 AM
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techne
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kisstheson
quote:
ORIGINAL: techne
(sigh)
???
exactly.
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RE: what does this picture say to you? - 11/14/2009 12:50:54 PM
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kisstheson
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You would sigh at a discussion concerning the thirst of Jesus? now a sigh of compassion for the way so many reject Christ and turn Him away at the door yes...those sighs are given from the Holy Spirit.
"The Spirit prays within us with groanings too deep for words."
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RE: what does this picture say to you? - 11/14/2009 4:22:35 PM
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kisstheson
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quote:
it's not about the art of it
Correct. I know I'm not the best artist. You could probably do a better job. Some people will be moved by this picture and some won't. I am saddened that people don't believe that Christ thirsts for souls in order that He may pour His love into them and set them free as clearly evidenced on the cross.
Thirst/need I have a hard time understanding why they can't see this in their savior.
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RE: what does this picture say to you? - 11/14/2009 5:41:15 PM
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techne
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it seems to me that the issue is one of language (and therefore metaphor). "thirst" may have the right 'feel' for you, but the contextual/ theological resonances may not be a good fit for others. it sounds pretty romantic (based on your explanation) and the verse you're using as a proof text is not really contextually appropriate. perhaps finding another way to say it would help as the metaphor you're using is obviously problematic. the solution isn't to hold onto it and argue its merits -- the solution is to find out why what you're trying to say isn't being conveyed and what might be a better way. if "jesus thirsts for our love" and jesus' "need" aren't being received as truth, the issue isn't necessarily the receiver...after all, while God is not willing that any should perish (i believe that's scriptural), the idea of him [romantically] pining for us may not be the best application or image. the maternal image of christ wanting to gather up jerusalem like chicks under his wings is not the same thing. and if christ in God is all sufficient and the godhead has perfect relationship, there can't be any need -- therefore, perhaps "need" is the wrong word. just some thoughts.
as always, both images and words are slippery, inaccurate things, and that is compounded through this medium (i.e. the internet). there's something to be said for clarity (as well as passion).
< Message edited by techne -- 11/14/2009 6:08:42 PM >
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The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them. -Mark Twain
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RE: what does this picture say to you? - 11/14/2009 6:27:46 PM
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navyblueret
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Thirst No More
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(Joh 14:6 KJV) ... I am the way, the truth, and the life: ...
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RE: what does this picture say to you? - 11/14/2009 10:44:01 PM
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kisstheson
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quote:
the solution is to find out why what you're trying to say isn't being conveyed and what might be a better way. if "jesus thirsts for our love" and jesus' "need" aren't being received as truth, the issue isn't necessarily the receiver...after all, while God is not willing that any should perish (i believe that's scriptural), the idea of him [romantically] pining for us may not be the best application or image. the maternal image of christ wanting to gather up jerusalem like chicks under his wings is not the same thing. and if christ in God is all sufficient and the godhead has perfect relationship, there can't be any need -- therefore, perhaps "need" is the wrong word. just some thoughts.
Why not? The maternal Christ is also the Bridegroom Christ. Why do people think that Jesus is not emotional, as if this were unholy for Him to hurt and to long? several times in the gospels Christ says:
"With desire I have desired to eat this Passover..."
"I have fire to cast on the earth. How I wish it were already kindled!"
"I have longed to gather you unto Myself..."
"I have a baptism to undergo. How I am longing for it to be accomplished!"
If the cross is not about longing and thirst (other than for physical water) then what did it take to for Christ to hang there for six hours dying a death of slow suffocation? Wouldn't the normal human reaction be to will to die even before the nails were pounded through the wrists? He had the power to lay down His life and to take it up again. No man could kill Christ, according to Jesus. Was this an act obedience alone? No...becaue "no greater LOVE has any man than this." It took an incredible amount of love to endure that kind of excruciating suffering. The cross absolutely is a picture of love, longing and thirst for souls. yes and a need to be poured out. I have a baptism to undergo. How I am longing for it to be accomplished!"
What does it mean for a person to long for something?
My art is the image that came to my mind in expressing this concept of Jesus longing for His love. some people like this image, others don't so should I change it just because others don't dig it?
So I guess Christ according to some Christians doesn't really care of we we respond to Him or not, or if we accept His greatest gift of His suffering for us. I guess He takes that rejection like water off a ducks back. "eh, no problem. I don't care." He ain't hurt by nothin'.
"Insults have broken My heart." Psalms
That was only for the Jesus "back then."
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RE: what does this picture say to you? - 11/15/2009 1:26:32 AM
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techne
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kisstheson
quote:
the solution is to find out why what you're trying to say isn't being conveyed and what might be a better way. if "jesus thirsts for our love" and jesus' "need" aren't being received as truth, the issue isn't necessarily the receiver...after all, while God is not willing that any should perish (i believe that's scriptural), the idea of him [romantically] pining for us may not be the best application or image. the maternal image of christ wanting to gather up jerusalem like chicks under his wings is not the same thing. and if christ in God is all sufficient and the godhead has perfect relationship, there can't be any need -- therefore, perhaps "need" is the wrong word. just some thoughts.
Why not? The maternal Christ is also the Bridegroom Christ. Why do people think that Jesus is not emotional, as if this were unholy for Him to hurt and to long? several times in the gospels Christ says:
didn't say he wasn't emotional. simply said that your use of "thirst" and "need" may not be the best choices...judging from responses posted by other people, that is...
quote:
ORIGINAL: kisstheson
"With desire I have desired to eat this Passover..."
"I have fire to cast on the earth. How I wish it were already kindled!"
"I have longed to gather you unto Myself..."
"I have a baptism to undergo. How I am longing for it to be accomplished!"
If the cross is not about longing and thirst (other than for physical water) then what did it take to for Christ to hang there for six hours dying a death of slow suffocation? Wouldn't the normal human reaction be to will to die even before the nails were pounded through the wrists? He had the power to lay down His life and to take it up again. No man could kill Christ, according to Jesus. Was this an act obedience alone? No...becaue "no greater LOVE has any man than this." It took an incredible amount of love to endure that kind of excruciating suffering. The cross absolutely is a picture of love, longing and thirst for souls. yes and a need to be poured out. I have a baptism to undergo. How I am longing for it to be accomplished!"
the cross isn't about longing and thirst (or at least not only). the cross is also about judgement and redemption and reconciliation and holiness and mercy and freedom and healing and obedience. in any case, i'm not arguing against the heart behind this (yours or his), i'm simply noting that the words you chose to explain your drawing are problematic for some people. and i thought to offer an opinion as to why..
quote:
ORIGINAL: kisstheson
What does it mean for a person to long for something?
i dunno - a yearning for something yet to be completed or accomplished?
quote:
ORIGINAL: kisstheson
My art is the image that came to my mind in expressing this concept of Jesus longing for His love. some people like this image, others don't so should I change it just because others don't dig it?
i actually have no comment about the image, and i wasn't even actually referring to it at all. i was simply pointing out possible interpretations (and hopefully, potential solutions) regarding your explanation of it.
quote:
ORIGINAL: kisstheson
So I guess Christ according to some Christians doesn't really care of we we respond to Him or not, or if we accept His greatest gift of His suffering for us. I guess He takes that rejection like water off a ducks back. "eh, no problem. I don't care." He ain't hurt by nothin'.
not sure where you got that idea...again, i don't think the issue is christ's desire that we accept his gift as much as it is the language we use to frame that idea. and i would hazard a guess that jesus is much less emotionally fragile than we think.
quote:
ORIGINAL: kisstheson
"Insults have broken My heart." Psalms
hmmm....well, that's from psalm 69 where david is feeling sorry for himself. oh, and then he curses his enemies (or the enemies of God). am i supposed to interpret this in context as referring to me? i'm curious -- what's the point of this quote?
here's another: "he who has ears, let him hear".
quote:
ORIGINAL: kisstheson
That was only for the Jesus "back then."
actually, that was for david "back then" (or perhaps even for us "right now", evidently).
(sigh)
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The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them. -Mark Twain
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RE: what does this picture say to you? - 11/15/2009 3:45:33 AM
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kisstheson
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"the cross isn't about longing and thirst (or at least not only)."
Never said that cross is about longing and thirst ONLY. What saddens me is when people insist it wasn't about that at all as though for Jesus' thirst to go beyond a thirst for water is a bad thing. It was common belief in the earliest traditions among Christians that Christ thirsted for more than physical water.
psalm 69 many refer to that verse as being Messianic.
So while thinking about this discussion I wrote this poem.
They say…
Jesus…
They say Your tears ceased long ago
The beginning from end You always know
Your heart badly shaken, grief stricken, bound
Today no sighs on Your lips are found
Is that why they call Your wounds a scar,
And a hint of gash where the spear did mar?
Jesus on earth knew the stab of rejection
Did all of that fade with the resurrection
Was the Man left behind in the grave?
No need for emotions now that we’re saved?
Does the manly Christ no longer matter?
Not the Son of Man, they prefer the latter
Christ the King saving, supplying all need
But Christ has not need, they say, indeed!
So I am asking You Jesus when day after day
At the door we heartlessly turn You away
The death You died does it seem vain
When men curse and defile Your name
Does it sting Your heart when folks say You don’t care?
You allow the world’s evil they say You’re not there
Forgive dear Jesus as I kneel and pray
Forgive the words, the things they say
You change not oh Christ of yesteryear
Yours is the Passion, Yours are the tears
Show me that wound, Your side opened wide
My hands on Savior, weeping blood crimson tide
Man of men yet still Christ the Lord
The emotional Christ still be adored!
< Message edited by kisstheson -- 11/15/2009 3:58:58 AM >
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RE: what does this picture say to you? - 11/15/2009 9:50:39 AM
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jn1010lf
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Hello kisstheson
Jesus is saying, "Look, this is for you. I offer all I have for you. Won't you take it? It's life that that was designed just for you.
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RE: what does this picture say to you? - 11/15/2009 5:09:22 PM
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kisstheson
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jn1010lf
Hello kisstheson
Jesus is saying, "Look, this is for you. I offer all I have for you. Won't you take it? It's life that that was designed just for you.
that's beautiful! Thanks so much!
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RE: what does this picture say to you? - 11/18/2009 5:39:32 PM
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techne
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kisstheson
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
Helpful Hint #1:
kts, by all means, put up your paintings for CW members to view, but don't argue with those who don't necessarily agree with your interpretation and don't get upset when they give you their interpretation.
That is all. 
It's a discussion board, is it not? On the other hand it I don't agree when people think that Jesus is a stoic dude that feels no pain and weeps no tears in Heaven and has no thirst of longing I will debate them because they are talking about MY Savior.
yes -- it is a discussion board...i don't think anyone suggested that jesus was "a stoic dude that feels no pain and weeps no tears". rather, people took issue with the connotations of your use of the words "thirst" and "longing" in connection with the image and the particular personal/ theological position you espouse (though, admittedly, it is possible i'm wrong). if it is indeed about discussion, and if you are indeed interested in all possible interpretations (which will, in turn, help you make better choices for both art execution and theological explication) then let's engage. otherwise what we have is people taking shots at each other while they're sitting in their trenches. this really isn't personal. ultimately, you can still stand by your own interpretation but you had asked others for theirs. if you disagree, at least try to understand why they disagree rather than stridently affirming your position. no one's begrudging you that.
oh well. that being said, i'd be interested in what you thought of my new pieces.
pax.
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The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them. -Mark Twain
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RE: what does this picture say to you? - 11/18/2009 5:56:34 PM
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Elena1030
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I too had no concern over the artwork itself. My concern was the misusage of the term need.
To me, the artwork was not about Jesus' needing us but about what He offers... and about our need of Him.
quote:
ORIGINAL: techne
it seems to me that the issue is one of language (and therefore metaphor). "thirst" may have the right 'feel' for you, but the contextual/ theological resonances may not be a good fit for others. it sounds pretty romantic (based on your explanation) and the verse you're using as a proof text is not really contextually appropriate. perhaps finding another way to say it would help as the metaphor you're using is obviously problematic. the solution isn't to hold onto it and argue its merits -- the solution is to find out why what you're trying to say isn't being conveyed and what might be a better way. if "jesus thirsts for our love" and jesus' "need" aren't being received as truth, the issue isn't necessarily the receiver...after all, while God is not willing that any should perish (i believe that's scriptural), the idea of him [romantically] pining for us may not be the best application or image. the maternal image of christ wanting to gather up jerusalem like chicks under his wings is not the same thing. and if christ in God is all sufficient and the godhead has perfect relationship, there can't be any need -- therefore, perhaps "need" is the wrong word. just some thoughts.
as always, both images and words are slippery, inaccurate things, and that is compounded through this medium (i.e. the internet). there's something to be said for clarity (as well as passion).
amen, techne. great explanation.
kisstheson: If what you are trying to convey needs words to go along with the art, then perhaps a multimedia approach would work better --- a poem, devotion, essay, or story to go along with the illustration. And though your poem that you post upthread does capture what you feel about Jesus, it doesn't really help explicate what you intended the artwork to say... I would suggest a poem with His speaking in first person.
And thelogically/doctrinally speaking, I agree with all who have argued that Jesus has no inherent "need" of us. A strong, deep desire? Yes. I imagine so. But whereas some folks would like to use the term need to label such a concept, that is actually an inaccurate usage of the term.
< Message edited by Elena1030 -- 11/18/2009 6:08:00 PM >
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RE: what does this picture say to you? - 11/19/2009 1:09:04 AM
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kisstheson
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thirst, desire, need to be poured out because He loves...what's the difference? Jesus hanging on the cross, what do you see in that act?
The poem speaks of the humanity of Christ...the emotional Jesus who thirsts to love souls.
I don't understand why people can't recognize this in Jesus.
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This is my Beloved. This is my friend. (Song of Solomon)
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RE: what does this picture say to you? - 11/19/2009 1:13:32 AM
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kisstheson
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quote:
people took issue with the connotations of your use of the words "thirst" and "longing" in connection with the image and the particular personal/ theological position you espouse (though, admittedly, it is possible i'm wrong). if it is indeed about discussion, and if you are indeed interested in all possible interpretations (which will, in turn, help you make better choices for both art execution and theological explication) then let's engage.
it's the choice I made. the painting touches some and others don't like it. why does it need to be better? Art is about the heart, not pleasing everyone.
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This is my Beloved. This is my friend. (Song of Solomon)
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RE: what does this picture say to you? - 11/19/2009 1:19:34 AM
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kisstheson
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quote:
And thelogically/doctrinally speaking, I agree with all who have argued that Jesus has no inherent "need" of us. A strong, deep desire? Yes. I imagine so. But whereas some folks would like to use the term need to label such a concept, that is actually an inaccurate usage of the term.
How can Christ display fruit without branches?
How can He be a Shepherd without sheep?
or a Husband without a Bride?
How about a Son without the Father?
Christ has no need?
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This is my Beloved. This is my friend. (Song of Solomon)
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RE: what does this picture say to you? - 11/19/2009 3:16:49 AM
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techne
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kisstheson
thirst, desire, need to be poured out because He loves...what's the difference? Jesus hanging on the cross, what do you see in that act?
are these 2 separate questions? the whole point of all of this has been that, judging by reactions, there is a difference -- it actually matters which words you use to communicate your thoughts to others because it affects their interpretation. and i think i've already answered the various things that i see in the cross (which are in addition to the ideas you present -- see post #34).
quote:
ORIGINAL: kisstheson
The poem speaks of the humanity of Christ...the emotional Jesus who thirsts to love souls.
well yes -- but the discussion i thought we were having was about the difference between your intention and people's responses. and your poem was a response to some of the questions and discussion we were having about your ideas. i think elena's suggestion that you might want to present both poem and image at the same time would at least create a framework for looking at what you present, because it seems to me that you are only interested in those interpretations and responses that fit your own intentions or confirm your own position.
and again, no one was denying jesus' humanity or the fact that he had, and has, strong emotions.
even so, the language is problematic: "the emotional jesus who thirsts to love souls"?
quote:
ORIGINAL: kisstheson
I don't understand why people can't recognize this in Jesus.
i think that everyone who has commented in this thread does recognize jesus' passion, emotion and humanity. that's actually not the issue...
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RE: what does this picture say to you? - 11/19/2009 3:23:06 AM
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techne
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kisstheson
quote:
people took issue with the connotations of your use of the words "thirst" and "longing" in connection with the image and the particular personal/ theological position you espouse (though, admittedly, it is possible i'm wrong). if it is indeed about discussion, and if you are indeed interested in all possible interpretations (which will, in turn, help you make better choices for both art execution and theological explication) then let's engage.
it's the choice I made. the painting touches some and others don't like it. why does it need to be better? Art is about the heart, not pleasing everyone.
to be honest, i'm not sure what you're referring to. you invited responses. and then, when you explained your intention as to what you were trying to communicate about jesus, people had problems with the language you employed. nobody actually commented on the image so your comment about whether or not it needs to be "better" is irrelevant at best.
and i would argue that art is not, in fact, simply about one's heart (but then, we've been down this road before, haven't we?) - art is in the service of communicating or conveying something, and when we fail, or when there is a gulf between our intention and the work's reception, that is something important that we should, as artists and creatives, pay attention to.
but whatever.
< Message edited by techne -- 11/19/2009 11:10:10 AM >
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The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them. -Mark Twain
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RE: what does this picture say to you? - 11/19/2009 7:03:29 AM
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solarflare
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I am not going to go back and forth.....cause I do not 'need' to be persuaded on my POV.
I do not find that picture conveys what you seem to intend for it to convey. As a successful
artist/photographer, and as someone who has taught art to adults, I have critiqued plenty
of people's work.
I would think you would expect feedback to be both positive and negative and a person
cannot do so if they must wear kid gloves and walk on eggshells.
We learn by example, we learn by study, we learn by many different ways. When an 'artist' puts
forth a piece and asks people to comment on it in a vague manor such as you have done, you
cannot expect other than the replies contained herein.
I say the following with respect and no desire to 'hurt' you. The cross is not symbolic of longing
in the way you seem to suggest. It is rather an object of shame, ridicule, torture and death. It
is a very appropriate symbol of the result of our sin. If it has come to mean other to you through
personal time spent in God's presence, that is your experience. Scripture does not indicate
what you seem to wish convey in that regard.
I have no doubt that Jesus loves us and desires our love; however, I just do not see or 'feel' what
you are saying when I view your picture.
I am not a Christian artist...I am an artist who is a Christian. I pray about my work and am often
inspired, I believe, by the Holy Spirit. I would not presume to think others feel the same about
my work when viewing it as did I when creating it. Comments are almost always positive but
I do not become perturbed if they do not see what I felt.
One very large piece of work was viewed by all as wonderful except for one man, a doctor, who saw
something 'dark' in my work that really was not there and never entered my mind. Should I try
and convince him how wrong he was or go on and on about what I really meant? (I didn't mean anything...
I was just trying to convey beauty). I think that would have been frustrating for both of us.
Art is extremely SUBJECTIVE (to put it mildly) and if you wish your work to convey a certain message
it might be helpful if you accepted both good and 'bad' comments.....as far as the meaning of it goes,
there is no way everyone is going to see what you felt.
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RE: what does this picture say to you? - 11/19/2009 1:05:09 PM
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techne
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solarflare
I do not find that picture conveys what you seem to intend for it to convey. As a successful artist/photographer, and as someone who has taught art to adults, I have critiqued plenty of people's work.
you got a website? you can see some of my work (and ruminations) here.
quote:
ORIGINAL: solarflare
I would think you would expect feedback to be both positive and negative and a person cannot do so if they must wear kid gloves and walk on eggshells.
and maybe the question of critique is a good one to discuss in another thread (rather than making this about kisstheson). how do we critique work? what is the process? is there a process? what should we address in a critique? what is critique? how do we ask for critique? how do we determine what we are actually asking people to critique? how do we deal with their responses? and our own? i would be more than willing to start such a thread and instigate the conversation...
quote:
ORIGINAL: solarflare
We learn by example, we learn by study, we learn by many different ways. When an 'artist' puts forth a piece and asks people to comment on it in a vague manor such as you have done, you cannot expect other than the replies contained herein.
see above.
quote:
ORIGINAL: solarflare
I say the following with respect and no desire to 'hurt' you. The cross is not symbolic of longing in the way you seem to suggest. It is rather an object of shame, ridicule, torture and death. It is a very appropriate symbol of the result of our sin. If it has come to mean other to you through
personal time spent in God's presence, that is your experience. Scripture does not indicate what you seem to wish convey in that regard.
of course, the conversation about the cross came long after the initial posting about what we thought about the image of jesus and his little cup.
again, it might be an interesting conversation to explore how images mean, and how we reconcile that with scripture, as well as how we can (or cannot) deviate. or an exploration of the difference between illustrating theology and presenting more personal interpretations of spiritual experiences...
quote:
ORIGINAL: solarflare
I have no doubt that Jesus loves us and desires our love; however, I just do not see or 'feel' what you are saying when I view your picture.
so then the task, and responsibility, for all of us, is to unpack and investigate why that might be so. we are able to explain or "back up" our opinions.
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ORIGINAL: solarflare
I am not a Christian artist...I am an artist who is a Christian. I pray about my work and am often inspired, I believe, by the Holy Spirit. I would not presume to think others feel the same about my work when viewing it as did I when creating it. Comments are almost always positive but I do not become perturbed if they do not see what I felt.
another interesting possible discussion -- the role of the holy spirit (and us) in the creative process. what does that mean? what does that involve? how does that work?
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ORIGINAL: solarflare
One very large piece of work was viewed by all as wonderful except for one man, a doctor, who saw something 'dark' in my work that really was not there and never entered my mind. Should I try and convince him how wrong he was or go on and on about what I really meant? (I didn't mean anything... I was just trying to convey beauty). I think that would have been frustrating for both of us.
this points to the idea that "whatever we get out of the work is right". it's not. one's opinions and subjective responses are one thing, but they are your thing. that is about the viewer, not the work. one's interpretations must be connected to the work at hand. if there is nothing in the work that points to that idea, it simply isn't appropriate to foist one's own opinions onto the work. though i'd be willing to discuss (argue?) that. 
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ORIGINAL: solarflare
Art is extremely SUBJECTIVE (to put it mildly) and if you wish your work to convey a certain message it might be helpful if you accepted both good and 'bad' comments.....as far as the meaning of it goes, there is no way everyone is going to see what you felt.
i would argue that art is much less subjective than we would like, but one's personal response is absolutely subjective. the issue for me is that art is not about your personal subjective opinion about what a piece of art is about. art isn't simply about self-expression, and it isn't about personal interpretation. or at least i would argue that isn't 1. biblical, 2. useful, or 3. art. but i'd be willing to discuss that. 
but you're right - one needs to be clear as to what they want to communicate, and then to be willing to listen to how and why it is or isn't effective in communicating that idea.
pax.
_____________________________
The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them. -Mark Twain
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RE: what does this picture say to you? - 11/19/2009 3:09:22 PM
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kisstheson
Posts: 527
Joined: 5/1/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: techne
quote:
ORIGINAL: kisstheson
thirst, desire, need to be poured out because He loves...what's the difference? Jesus hanging on the cross, what do you see in that act?
are these 2 separate questions? the whole point of all of this has been that, judging by reactions, there is a difference -- it actually matters which words you use to communicate your thoughts to others because it affects their interpretation. and i think i've already answered the various things that i see in the cross (which are in addition to the ideas you present -- see post #34).
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ORIGINAL: kisstheson
The poem speaks of the humanity of Christ...the emotional Jesus who thirsts to love souls.
well yes -- but the discussion i thought we were having was about the difference between your intention and people's responses. and your poem was a response to some of the questions and discussion we were having about your ideas. i think elena's suggestion that you might want to present both poem and image at the same time would at least create a framework for looking at what you present, because it seems to me that you are only interested in those interpretations and responses that fit your own intentions or confirm your own position.
and again, no one was denying jesus' humanity or the fact that he had, and has, strong emotions.
even so, the language is problematic: "the emotional jesus who thirsts to love souls"?
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ORIGINAL: kisstheson
I don't understand why people can't recognize this in Jesus.
i think that everyone who has commented in this thread does recognize jesus' passion, emotion and humanity. that's actually not the issue...
The art created a discussion about Jesus. If I had included the poem I'm not sure it would have generated this much discussion. My favorite line of discussion is in depth talk about the emotions of Christ.
IMO I think many Christians think in Heaven Christ no longer has the same emotions He had on earth. It has been my experience within Christian circles people are not in touch with the Christ who longs to save souls, yes Who thirsts to save and desires to have a deeper union with all of us.
If we can consider that for just a moment then asking people what they see in my painting is well worth it.
_____________________________
This is my Beloved. This is my friend. (Song of Solomon)
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RE: what does this picture say to you? - 11/19/2009 3:20:03 PM
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kisstheson
Posts: 527
Joined: 5/1/2006
From: AOL
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: techne
quote:
ORIGINAL: kisstheson
quote:
people took issue with the connotations of your use of the words "thirst" and "longing" in connection with the image and the particular personal/ theological position you espouse (though, admittedly, it is possible i'm wrong). if it is indeed about discussion, and if you are indeed interested in all possible interpretations (which will, in turn, help you make better choices for both art execution and theological explication) then let's engage.
it's the choice I made. the painting touches some and others don't like it. why does it need to be better? Art is about the heart, not pleasing everyone.
to be honest, i'm not sure what you're referring to. you invited responses. and then, when you explained your intention as to what you were trying to communicate about jesus, people had problems with the language you employed. nobody actually commented on the image so your comment about whether or not it needs to be "better" is irrelevant at best.
and i would argue that art is not, in fact, simply about one's heart (but then, we've been down this road before, haven't we?) - art is in the service of communicating or conveying something, and when we fail, or when there is a gulf between our intention and the work's reception, that is something important that we should, as artists and creatives, pay attention to.
but whatever.
whose to say what art is a failure or not? Jesus spoke in parables. Story telling is an art form. Half the people didn't grasp the depth of what he was conveying. So did Jesus fail at telling the story? even his disciples didn't get it and asked him for the interpretation.
Did you know Michelangelo sculpted a nude statue of Christ embracing the cross? Some might be highly offended by his work. Does that mean he failed at communicating the fact that Christ was human?
Some look away in disqust and say Michelangelo failed because he scuplted a Jesus who is too human.
I always go for the heart as long as the art doesn't blaspheme the Savior.
_____________________________
This is my Beloved. This is my friend. (Song of Solomon)
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