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RE: Obama says will insist on justice for 9/11 suspect - 11/13/2009 5:05:18 PM
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davemiller7
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What about the protections for people that I was addressing?
quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
Aside from the possible release of classified information, what about security precautions that will be needed to assure that the courthouse doesn't get bombed or shot up? This isn't going to be a quick trial lasting a week or two. It's likely to stretch out for a long, long time.
Another thing is protection of the judge and jury before, during, and after the trial. Al Qaida and other whacko groups will be out to kill them.
It would be much easier to provide security at Gitmo and have a military tribunal handle matters.
And let him get life instead of being executed if found guilty....
Why are so many conservatives willing to risk letting the man escape the likelihood of the death penalty amazes me. If he is guilty, I personally would rather see him in federal court than military.
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RE: Obama says will insist on justice for 9/11 suspect - 11/13/2009 5:12:07 PM
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GroupW
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For this trial, I think you would find a plethora of people willing to take the risk to participate in a historic trial like this.
I wouldn't think twice about it. I'd volunteer for the jury if that were possible, although no self respecting lawyer would ever put me on a jury.
_____________________________
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"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Obama says will insist on justice for 9/11 suspect - 11/14/2009 12:41:03 AM
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GroupW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
Aside from the possible release of classified information, what about security precautions that will be needed to assure that the courthouse doesn't get bombed or shot up? This isn't going to be a quick trial lasting a week or two. It's likely to stretch out for a long, long time.
Another thing is protection of the judge and jury before, during, and after the trial. Al Qaida and other whacko groups will be out to kill them.
It would be much easier to provide security at Gitmo and have a military tribunal handle matters.
I agree - easier. Not necessarily better, though. If you really wanted to go for the death penalty, you'd want to do that in a US court.
Plus I think we can figure out the security issues. They don't seem insurmountable.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Obama says will insist on justice for 9/11 suspect - 11/14/2009 1:12:50 AM
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rockominal
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quote:
President Obama, speaking in Tokyo, said he will insist that Mohammed be subject to "the most exacting demands of justice" and called the move both a prosecutorial and a national security decision.
Why is Barry Soetoro discussing the personal concerns of U.S. citizens to ANYONE in Tokyo?
_____________________________
I might tell you the truth, or something pretty close to it. Jesus says, "I Am the Truth."
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RE: Obama says will insist on justice for 9/11 suspect - 11/14/2009 1:30:52 AM
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rockominal
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quote:
And the federal court is FAR more likely to hand down a death penalty than the military. It's been, what, 50 years since the military has carried out an execution
April 13, 1961. And his name is John Bennett. An American. An American citizen and a soldier.
He was convicted of rape and attempted murder. Now. Back to another point I wanted to make. John Bennett was an American. That is to say, he was born and raised in the United States of America, and he was tried in a military court. He was executed, and not by some sort of lethal dose of medicine either.
_____________________________
I might tell you the truth, or something pretty close to it. Jesus says, "I Am the Truth."
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RE: Obama says will insist on justice for 9/11 suspect - 11/14/2009 3:09:09 AM
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rockominal
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Barry Soetoro
"I'm absolutely convinced that Khalid Sheik Mohammad will be subject to the most exacting demands of justice. The American people insist on it".
Soetoro_Running_His_Mouth_In_Japan?
How does this guy manage to conjure up enough outlandish, presumptuous , pompous, ungirded, unbridled, disgusting, unmitigated gall to tell foreigners in Japan, China, or anywhere else, what the American people will or won't insist on?
_____________________________
I might tell you the truth, or something pretty close to it. Jesus says, "I Am the Truth."
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RE: Obama says will insist on justice for 9/11 suspect - 11/14/2009 7:33:46 AM
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SonInMe1
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I only read the fuirst page so sorry if this is repeated...but...
the main reason why this is in civil court and not a military court is so most of the evidence, gathered by covert investigations, will not be usable in civil court to protect our means of gathering intellegence.
In a military court, which is a sealed court, these covert evidences could be brought forth without damage being done to our intellegence gathering operations.
In other words there will be little usable evidence against this terrorist...and Obama knows it.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Obama says will insist on justice for 9/11 suspect - 11/14/2009 8:24:02 AM
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StephK
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I agree that obama knows the damage this trial does. He also knows that it gives at least one of the terrorists exactly what he wants, a show trial.
Just a reminder that the mastermind didn't just plan the attacks, he was able to behead an innocent man partially because of his faith.
quote:
KSM: "I Beheaded Reporter Daniel Pearl"
Al Qaeda mastermind Khalid sheik Mohammed admits he personally murdered Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl, according to an updated version of his confession released today by the Pentagon.
"I decapitated with blessed right hand the head of the American Jew, Daniel Pearl, in the city of Karachi, Pakistan," Mohammed said in a written declaration submitted to a military tribunal at Guantanamo last weekend.
...
"For those who would like to confirm, there are pictures of me on the Iternet holding his head," KSM said in his statement.
US officials had told ABC News that identifying marks on the hand of the masked man holding Pearl's head matched those of KSM.
_____________________________
Stephanie
Envy is always referred to by its political alias, "social justice."
~ Thomas Sowell
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RE: Obama says will insist on justice for 9/11 suspect - 11/14/2009 12:23:34 PM
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ta_mosquito
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Moved from Kings, etc. to Current Events.
Thanks!
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RE: Obama says will insist on justice for 9/11 suspect - 11/14/2009 12:28:44 PM
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StephK
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From: Southwest Louisiana
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Surprise Surprise Obama Lied Again
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Stephanie
Envy is always referred to by its political alias, "social justice."
~ Thomas Sowell
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RE: Obama says will insist on justice for 9/11 suspect - 11/14/2009 5:56:40 PM
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stampinlady
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Yahoo article
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091114/ap_on_re_us/us_new_york_sept11_trial
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Deb
I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality .... Acts 10:34
"When the fufillment comes the types and shadows cease."
Author unknown
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RE: Obama says will insist on justice for 9/11 suspect - 11/14/2009 10:26:17 PM
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SonInMe1
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Does having this "trial" in New York suggest to you that its not this terrorist on trial, but us?
This entire set up seems almost to be....apologetic. Like...we are sorry you had to sacrifice your friends to attack us on 9/11 becuase of how evil our nation was so we will do everything we can to insure your release.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Obama says will insist on justice for 9/11 suspect - 11/14/2009 11:49:02 PM
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parkerbrother
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quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
Surprise Surprise Obama Lied Again
Lying? When Obama said this he didn't even know he would be running for president 2 year later? He was simply pointing out the facts as he understood them at the time. Lying implies some intent to deceive, does it not?
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RE: Obama says will insist on justice for 9/11 suspect - 11/15/2009 3:03:13 AM
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SonInMe1
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quote:
Lying? When Obama said this he didn't even know he would be running for president 2 year later? He was simply pointing out the facts as he understood them at the time. Lying implies some intent to deceive, does it not?
Like Bush was "lieing" when he acted on the wmd intel he had.
I just love all the threads that show liberals are exactly like conservatives....when they are in power.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Obama says will insist on justice for 9/11 suspect - 11/15/2009 4:59:42 AM
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rockominal
Posts: 679
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wing2000
It's about time the U.S. brings these prisoners to trial. It will not be easy and for sure, the presecution will have some signficant challenges...
What sort of challenges would the prosecution have, let alone "significant" challenges? Are the prosecutors from the mideast or something?
quote:
..but I credit this administration for moving the process forward.
You mean credit for trying to decide what to do with a foreign murderer, and an enemy of the United States, that somebody else captured? Sounds like misplaced credit to me.
_____________________________
I might tell you the truth, or something pretty close to it. Jesus says, "I Am the Truth."
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RE: Obama says will insist on justice for 9/11 suspect - 11/15/2009 5:28:32 AM
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rockominal
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
At this point, we don't have great options, period.
Who is we, period?
quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
That's what happens when you allow torture or other human rights violations in the interest of safety.
Indeed. It's always better to jeopardize the saftey and lives of American citizens and military personnel in the interest of looking like a humanitarian to murderers and the enemies of the United States.
quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
It makes it very difficult to work your way back to the values you started with.
For a "progressive" liberal, it would be a matter of working in all sorts of directions, wouldn't it?
Backwards.., forwards, sideways, diagonally.. down, up..
_____________________________
I might tell you the truth, or something pretty close to it. Jesus says, "I Am the Truth."
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RE: Obama says will insist on justice for 9/11 suspect - 11/15/2009 2:37:39 PM
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tacitus
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rockominal
For a "progressive" liberal, it would be a matter of working in all sorts of directions, wouldn't it?
Backwards.., forwards, sideways, diagonally.. down, up..
And which conservative value was responsible for that snide remark?
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RE: Obama says will insist on justice for 9/11 suspect - 11/15/2009 3:39:59 PM
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stampinlady
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I just saw on the news this morning that they might be coming to my state, IL . Hmmmm, .
_____________________________
Deb
I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality .... Acts 10:34
"When the fufillment comes the types and shadows cease."
Author unknown
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RE: Obama says will insist on justice for 9/11 suspect - 11/15/2009 3:49:18 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wing2000
So what is Sen Kyl's solution?
Leave-em rot until they die?
Actually as with all other wars thoughout history; keep them in prison until the war is over with; then try them under a Military Tribunal.
Thanks
RC
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RE: Obama says will insist on justice for 9/11 suspect - 11/15/2009 5:35:35 PM
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GroupW
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Normally, I'd say that's fine. How do you handle it though when the war has no definite end, or when you can't tell soldier from civilian? The really terrible part of this whole thing is the way it makes us second guess the things we think are right.
There are no good answers, really.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Obama says will insist on justice for 9/11 suspect - 11/15/2009 6:28:43 PM
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StephK
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From: Southwest Louisiana
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
Normally, I'd say that's fine. How do you handle it though when the war has no definite end, or when you can't tell soldier from civilian? The really terrible part of this whole thing is the way it makes us second guess the things we think are right.
There are no good answers, really.
Whose fault is it that? If they didn't want to sit and rot in prison while we deal with the war they started then perhaps they shouldn't have used our civilians as their weapons of war.
_____________________________
Stephanie
Envy is always referred to by its political alias, "social justice."
~ Thomas Sowell
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RE: Obama says will insist on justice for 9/11 suspect - 11/15/2009 7:24:49 PM
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LilMaryB
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Funny how some of you who claim that this most racist, dumb, and everything else that's not even remotely true want to forgo a trial for this person or any other person who does something like this. For some reason you all seem to forget that there's a precedent already set for this case, and oh yeah... a little something called the Constitution. You know, it's the same one some of you all like to say that our current President has trampled all over and claim to want to go back to what our Founding Fathers wanted (never mind the fact that they set up amendments that can be added). I digress, it's the Constitution that states all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed.
Whether you all want to skip a trial and send this person to the chair, you can't, that's not how our government works. Everyone is entitled to due process.
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RE: Obama says will insist on justice for 9/11 suspect - 11/15/2009 8:10:21 PM
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GroupW
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LMB-
It's a bit more complicated than that. The constitution lays out how US citizens should be treated. The Geneva convention lays out the rules
for prisoners of war.
Unfortunately, we have decided that these individuals are "enemy combatants" and that the Geneva convention doesn't apply which has left these individuals in a gray area. Hence, the problem. If it were a normal war between countries, there would be an end and a treaty to mark the end. Individuals that committed war crimes could then be tried in open military court.
It gets a bit more murky when it's a war between a somewhat nebulous organization where the war never really ends and no government on the other side to form agreements with.
Not to defend the current or prior administrations on this, but the answers aren't real simple. The answers would have been a bit easier if we hadn't set up a third "enemy combatant" category and used torture and other coercive techniques, but what's done is done.
At this point we are left with a set of choices where none of them are particularly appealing.
BT
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Obama says will insist on justice for 9/11 suspect - 11/15/2009 9:16:36 PM
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Marcus.
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Updated November 13, 2009
Critics Weigh Cost of Trying Alleged 9/11 Plotters in New York
by Cristina Corbin, FOXNews.com
...........But the decision to send the Mohammed and his accomplices to New York rather than trying them before a military tribunal has been met with strong resistance. Attorneys prosecuting Mohammed will be forced to release a large body of classified U.S. intelligence information that critics say will give fodder to potential terrorist attacks -- both domestically and abroad.
Former federal prosecutor Andrew McCarthy, who led the prosecution in the case against Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman for his role in the 1993 World Trade Center bombings, said public trials will provide a "banquet of intelligence information" for the vast Al Qaeda network, especially operatives in Afghanistan.
"It's a massively stupid decision when we're actually at war with them," McCarthy said in an interview with FoxNews.com. "We have to give them all kinds of information about our methods of intelligence that can only make them more efficient at killing us."
Story Continues
< Message edited by Marcus. -- 11/15/2009 9:23:05 PM >
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