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RE: There He Goes Again - Bowing To Emporer of Japan - 11/14/2009 4:12:44 PM
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rlj
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quote:
Look, I'm not going to go round and round with you over this. You obviously think it's a joke and it's not. One time breaking protocol because he didn't know better is one thing but after the blatant lying done by Gibby from the bow to the Saudi king shows he just doesn't care one whit about protocol. He's sending a message to the world and it's not one that the former POTUS' sent.
I wasn't being funny I was being cynical. I agree that it doesn't look good. It strikes me as one of his attempts to "buddy buddy" up to whomever he happens to be in the room with at a given time. Much like the way he tries to promote himself as a christian, and a muslim, and <insert whatever religion here>. It strikes me as almost phony for the simple reason it is so off base. Speaking for myself, I would never bow to a Saudi king.
As far as how the world looks on him, it looks at him much better than it did at any time during W's 2nd term. I would say at any time during Clinton also. Bush 41 though was a very effective global leader so I wouldn't put him above Bush 41 or Reagan. Just looking at it for what it is.
So am I disgraced by it and holding my head in shame? No. Does it annoy me? Meh, not really. Would I like for him to act more leader like and official? Yes. Am I laughing and making a joke? No. I expect him to claim to be a follower of Judaism, Wicca, Shinto, and whatever else he happens to be addressing at a given time hence my cynical attempt at referring to the Japanese Emperor as a deity. That seems to be his record "all things to all people". We also are looking at a change in mores for the US. I would expect to see less "official" behavior in the coming years than you or I or especially someone older than us would expect to see.
Don't blame me for the way the world looks at B0 or the US. After the 2nd term of W. the world is probably still thinking "after the rain comes the sun".
< Message edited by rlj -- 11/14/2009 4:20:30 PM >
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RE: There He Goes Again - Bowing To Emporer of Japan - 11/14/2009 4:13:08 PM
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wing2000
Posts: 1122
Joined: 4/14/2005
From: ...the beautiful Sonoran Desert
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quote:
Douglas Jehr, in a 1994 New York Times report, made it clear that had Clinton actually executed a full bow, it would have destroyed a precedent dating to the founding of the Republic:
....oh dear.
Now that Obama has violated one of the central tenants of our Republic, does that mean we now have to sing "God save the Queen"?
< Message edited by wing2000 -- 11/14/2009 4:19:42 PM >
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RE: There He Goes Again - Bowing To Emporer of Japan - 11/14/2009 4:21:19 PM
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StephK
Posts: 2524
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southwest Louisiana
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
quote:
Look, I'm not going to go round and round with you over this. You obviously think it's a joke and it's not. One time breaking protocol because he didn't know better is one thing but after the blatant lying done by Gibby from the bow to the Saudi king shows he just doesn't care one whit about protocol. He's sending a message to the world and it's not one that the former POTUS' sent.
I wasn't being funny I was being cynical. I agree that it doesn't look good. It strikes me as one of his attempts to "buddy buddy" up to whomever he happens to be in the room with at a given time. Much like the way he tries to promote himself as a christian, and a muslim, and <insert whatever religion here>. It strikes me as almost phony for the simple reason it is so off base. Speaking for myself, I would never bow to a Saudi king.
As far as how the world looks on him, it looks at him much better than it did at any time during W's 2nd term. I would say at any time during Clinton also. Bush 41 though was a very effective global leader so I wouldn't put him above Bush 41 or Reagan. Just looking at it for what it is.
So am I disgraced by it and holding my head in shame? No. Does it annoy me? Meh, not really. Would I like for him to act more leader like and official? Yes. Am I laughing and making a joke? No. I expect him to claim to be a follower of Judaism, Wicca, Shinto, and whatever else he happens to be addressing at a given time hence my cynical attempt at referring to the Japanese Emperor as a deity. That seems to be his record "all things to all people". We also are looking at a change in mores for the US. I would expect to see less "official" behavior in the coming years than you or I or especially someone older than us would expect to see.
Don't blame me for the way the world looks at B0 or the US. After the 2nd term of W. the world is probably still thinking "after the rain comes the sun".
You might be surprised.
_____________________________
Stephanie
Envy is always referred to by its political alias, "social justice."
~ Thomas Sowell
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RE: There He Goes Again - Bowing To Emporer of Japan - 11/14/2009 4:29:02 PM
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stampinlady
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BUT where does it say that our president should never bow out of repsect to another leader?? I asked this when he did it to the Saudi leader and NO ONE could posted a link to what the protocol. Just because no past president has done it doesn't mena it's wrong. We do alot of things that never get questioned all for tradition and some of it turns out to be wrong.
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Deb
I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality .... Acts 10:34
"When the fufillment comes the types and shadows cease."
Author unknown
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RE: There He Goes Again - Bowing To Emporer of Japan - 11/14/2009 4:52:37 PM
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tacitus
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Isn't it interesting that right-wing conservatives are so obsessed with image over substance. How many threads have there been now that focus in on every little insignificant thing Obama does that doesn't conform to their view of a macho America that never compromises or backs down from a fight? From lapel-pins to bowing to not standing the right way during the Pledge...
The rest of the nation doesn't care about such nonsense, they have more confidence in America and America's true position in the world -- it's strength and power -- than to worry and obsess over such trivialities. The insecurities of the right never cease to amaze me.
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RE: There He Goes Again - Bowing To Emporer of Japan - 11/14/2009 9:18:43 PM
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Ps103
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MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
It seems to be resolved now, but please remember to keep your posts on the topic of the OP. Also remember that other posters are never the topic of threads...
Thanks.
Please do not reply to this message within the Community. Please do not send me PMs regarding this message.
Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns.
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RE: There He Goes Again - Bowing To Emporer of Japan - 11/14/2009 10:35:18 PM
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tafkam
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quote:
How many threads have there been now that focus in on every little insignificant thing Obama does that doesn't conform to their view of a macho America that never compromises or backs down from a fight? From lapel-pins to bowing to not standing the right way during the Pledge...
Oh, I don't know...I guess it depends on how many times Obama keeps demonstrating how pathetically out of his depth he is...
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Tafkam
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RE: There He Goes Again - Bowing To Emporer of Japan - 11/14/2009 10:54:26 PM
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iluvatar
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
quote:
How many threads have there been now that focus in on every little insignificant thing Obama does that doesn't conform to their view of a macho America that never compromises or backs down from a fight? From lapel-pins to bowing to not standing the right way during the Pledge...
Oh, I don't know...I guess it depends on how many times Obama keeps demonstrating how pathetically out of his depth he is...
When he takes it upon himself to give a foreign head of state a neck rub, then I'll concede that point.
-Dan.
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RE: There He Goes Again - Bowing To Emporer of Japan - 11/14/2009 11:00:28 PM
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SonInMe1
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quote:
It's this simple. All this outrage, whether real or feigned, about every little move Obama makes and every little word he speaks works only to make Obama opponents look silly.
Its this simple. All this outrage, wether real or feigned, about every little move Bush makes and every little word he speaks works only to make Bush opponents look silly.
Pot...meet Mr Kettle.
I truly believe Obama thinks our nation was so evil, He must go on some apologetic tour around the world to ask for forgiveness.
I really....really believe this. To the point protocol means nothing. To Obama we are so evil that nothing can stop him from making amends.
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You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: There He Goes Again - Bowing To Emporer of Japan - 11/14/2009 11:14:00 PM
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StephK
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Edited only to remove reference to a post deleted by mod.
The protocol goes both ways. The Japanese take their bowing etiquette very seriously.
< Message edited by Kath -- 11/15/2009 12:10:31 AM >
_____________________________
Stephanie
Envy is always referred to by its political alias, "social justice."
~ Thomas Sowell
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RE: There He Goes Again - Bowing To Emporer of Japan - 11/15/2009 5:11:40 AM
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rlj
Posts: 3895
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quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
Edited only to remove reference to a post deleted by mod.
The protocol goes both ways. The Japanese take their bowing etiquette very seriously.
I had thought of that to but I didn't know the etiquette myself.
I also happen to think that knowing the etiquette of the land your in is both polite and respectful and runs contrary to the "arrogance" he claimed (accurately) that Americans are perceived with.
Even still this is hardly indicative of what issues I disagree with him on and it has little to do with what he has done, is doing and will do.
< Message edited by rlj -- 11/15/2009 5:20:22 AM >
_____________________________
Thbbbt!!!!
A video of our cat and kitten:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ycCndVNctA
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RE: There He Goes Again - Bowing To Emporer of Japan - 11/15/2009 4:03:02 PM
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rcjames
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I really love the photo; the Japanese guy looks as if he is saying, "What in the world is this idoit doing"?
Of course what Obama is doing is trying to provide cover (Diversion) for his obeisance to the Muslim guy a few weeks back.
Thanks
RC
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Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: There He Goes Again - Bowing To Emporer of Japan - 11/15/2009 6:30:46 PM
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StephK
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From: Southwest Louisiana
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ariella...
Is it because of our eyes? lol
I am sure other presidents in the past have bowed to Japanese leaders. It's a common cultural heritage to do so when you first meet someone.
Nope not according to the NYT article they did when Clinton almost bowed. At that time no other POTUS had bowed to a foreign head of state. The link is somewhere back in the thread.
< Message edited by StephK -- 11/15/2009 6:37:36 PM >
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Stephanie
Envy is always referred to by its political alias, "social justice."
~ Thomas Sowell
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RE: There He Goes Again - Bowing To Emporer of Japan - 11/15/2009 7:14:47 PM
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LilMaryB
Posts: 255
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This again? Really?
Our President was showing respect, something some of you (you know the ones who keep coming up with trivial posts like this) would know about if you all knew a bit more about countries in other parts of the world instead of being so xenophobic. I see nothing wrong with what was done, if it was me, I would have done the same thing. If you go to another country, you are to recognize their culture and customs. By not doing so shows arrogance and ignorance. But continue this dead-end discussion of our President being weak and dumb by all means. If anything this only shows people who visit this supposedly Christian forum, that some of you all greatly lack the Christ like qualities that's supposed to be displayed for the world to see.
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RE: There He Goes Again - Bowing To Emporer of Japan - 11/15/2009 7:36:32 PM
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StephK
Posts: 2524
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southwest Louisiana
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ariella...
I think in this case it's not so much about the fact that he bowed at all but rather the reason. But generally (and I stress, generally) it is appropriate to bow upon first meeting. I'm Japanese American and it is just custom to bow in certain circumstances...the same reason why Japanese officials shake our hands, because they know it is in our "custom" to do so. Not all bowing has a subserviant meaning. We can only speculate as to why he himself bowed.
In fact, I thought it was nice (and cute) when my husband decided to bow when meeting all of my Japanese relatives that came down for our wedding. And I didn't even teach him that. He just picked it up. Respect.
There is a difference between meeting of heads of state and just us regular folks. I have no problem with showing respect to various cultures. I lived in Hawaii so I am familiar with some of the customs. The NYT ripped Clinton for almost bowing as no other POTUS had done so.
As far as why he has done this twice now is a good question.
_____________________________
Stephanie
Envy is always referred to by its political alias, "social justice."
~ Thomas Sowell
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RE: There He Goes Again - Bowing To Emporer of Japan - 11/15/2009 9:11:57 PM
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AmandaRadarRanger
Posts: 154
Joined: 11/10/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
quote:
It's this simple. All this outrage, whether real or feigned, about every little move Obama makes and every little word he speaks works only to make Obama opponents look silly.
Its this simple. All this outrage, wether real or feigned, about every little move Bush makes and every little word he speaks works only to make Bush opponents look silly.
Pot...meet Mr Kettle.
I truly believe Obama thinks our nation was so evil, He must go on some apologetic tour around the world to ask for forgiveness.
I really....really believe this. To the point protocol means nothing. To Obama we are so evil that nothing can stop him from making amends.
So you admired the behavior of the bush opponents so much that now you want to emulate it? For the record, as I've stated before, I thought a lot of that anti bush rhetoric was over the top too. Too bad the conservatives or whatever they are have shown themselves to be just as petty, silly and nasty, certainly no better if not worse. Congratulations Mr. Kettle (or is it Mr. Pot?)
I haven't heard him ask forgiveness here. Admitting mistakes or certain counterproductive attitudes of the past is basically the difference between a man and a petulant little brat who thinks he can never do wrong. When we find ourselves the only country in the universe, maybe we can afford some of the arrogance that some people find so becoming. Never admitting a mistake is the attitude of a weak nation, not a strong one.
< Message edited by AmandaRadarRanger -- 11/15/2009 9:18:35 PM >
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RE: There He Goes Again - Bowing To Emporer of Japan - 11/15/2009 9:14:12 PM
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AmandaRadarRanger
Posts: 154
Joined: 11/10/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
I really love the photo; the Japanese guy looks as if he is saying, "What in the world is this idoit doing"?
Of course what Obama is doing is trying to provide cover (Diversion) for his obeisance to the Muslim guy a few weeks back.
Thanks
RC
yeah, of course. 
< Message edited by AmandaRadarRanger -- 11/15/2009 9:20:30 PM >
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RE: There He Goes Again - Bowing To Emporer of Japan - 11/15/2009 10:36:07 PM
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relady
Posts: 647
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
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quote:
Isn't it interesting that right-wing conservatives are so obsessed with image over substance. Not really. That is their stock and trade and has been for about 20 years now.
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