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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 4/21/2008 3:32:38 PM
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car2ner
Posts: 2944
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: just north of Florida
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quote:
Anyone can say...this wasn't God's will, or that wasn't God's will... just because it doesn't feel too comfortable or things aren't clicking...it's too hard, its been too long, etc. Just because something "feels" right does not make it God's will, and because something "feels" wrong doesn't make it not God's will. The Bible is clear that we should never make decisions based on following our heart... only based on HIS WORD. Many say they "feel" God telling them to leave their faithful spouse for another person. Is that GOD??? They move on and truly believe they are in God's will because they are now "happy"
Believe it or not, I do agree with this. It is foolish to go on emtions or "feelings". In fact, I often say to never make any decision based on strong emotions.
_____________________________
http://www.car2ner.2ya.com
"May your days be long and your hardships few".
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 4/21/2008 3:46:40 PM
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p.progress
Posts: 149
Joined: 12/23/2006
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Sorry, I accidently posted to soon, before editing and am unable to do so even now:
I repeat from other posts of mine: To properly follow the instruction that "if any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God" then the student of scripture will refrain from falling into the trap of using the new-speak of the ungodly which both coined and set the definition for their hybrid word and expression they call 'remarriage'.
This is not some personal obsession to be techinically correct, or make some unimportant point. It is very important to see, recognize and acknowledge to yourself (at least) that words have meaning and in using them we are seeking to communicate our thoughts. The problem with the hybrid term of 'remarriage' is that you cannot employ it (you cannot use it) without communicating you are in agreement with it as well - agreement with the commonly held definition(s) the word 'remarriage' was from the onset encoded with and intended to mean - whether you agree with it in fact or not.
The world, and worldly professors of Christianity (a judgment I make regarding no one specifically, not in this forum at least) define their hybrid expression 'remarriage' to fit and frame their belief. And their belief is that one way or another, it is acceptable and permitted by God himself for a wife that was 'put away' and 'divorced'; and a wife that has deserted by 'departing' her husband; and a wife whose husband has engaged in sexual relations with another woman to then "marry another". That is how 'remarriage' is defined and its definition is absent of any condemnation of such actions [yes, I know the inventers and consumers of this hybrid term 'remarriage' also apply this to men as well who 'remarry'].
But 'remarriage' cannot rightly refer to any woman or man that has deserted or was deserted by their first spouse, and afterwards - whether after a day, a month a year or years later - goes on in a forward direction away from their former position and "marries another". 'RE'- marriage both grammatically speaking and scripturally speaking cannot mean this, but can only refer to a man but more clearly a wife who RE-conciles with both herself and her God, which will led her then to "be RE-conciled" with her husband...her first husband - that is the man her father gave her to, "to wife" (or "gave in marriage") her "first husband" [Hos.2.7; Mal.]. She must first RE- pent of her waywardness; RE-turn' to her "first husband". That is true re-marriage.
Hsa 2:7 And she shall follow after her lovers, but she shall not overtake them; and she shall seek them, but shall not find [them]: then shall she say, I will go and return to my first husband; for then [was it] better with me than now.
See here a parallel in the allogorical tale of the 'prodigal son' I've adapted below:
Luk 15:17-19 And when [she] came to [her]self, [she] said, How many hired servants of my [first husband's] have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger! I will arise and go to my [first husband], and will say unto him, [My husband], I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, And am no more worthy to be called thy [wife]: make me as one of thy hired [maid]servants.
And what was the attitude and heart of the Father to his son - to his dishonoring, selfish and rebellious son? No doubt God is infinitely and eternally more pure, loving, patient and self sacrificing for the good of us than we are humanly capable of maintaining and displaying to those that continually wound us, demean and reject and abandon us for others and/or other things they inexplicably and insanely place value in, more than what God demands of them and seeks to encourage them to (all of us) value.
So though his command to "remain unmarried" to the disobeient wife will over time seem to her to be insensitive, impractical and frankly unbelieveable; and hense she will look and find some 'promise' in the scriptures that will grant to her itching ears be
Mal 2:14 Yet ye say, Wherefore? Because the LORD hath been witness between thee and the wife of thy youth, against whom thou hast dealt treacherously: yet [is] she thy companion, and the wife of thy covenant.
Mal 2:15 And did not he make one? Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek a godly seed. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth.
Mal 2:16 For the LORD, the God of Israel, saith that he hateth putting away: for [one] covereth violence with his garment, saith the LORD of hosts: therefore take heed to your spirit, that ye deal not treacherously.
< Message edited by p.progress -- 4/22/2008 1:25:52 PM >
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 4/21/2008 4:01:51 PM
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lastblast
Posts: 1599
Joined: 9/20/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Restored_Heart
That is why Jesus talked about the certificate of divorce. Many of the men in question were not obtaining the "get", just issuing a verbal "I divorce you" and sending the woman away.
Jesus NEVER addressed the certificate of divorce. He addressed the action of putting away---period, not the method in putting someone away.
_____________________________
Blessings as you seek Him, Cindy
What does the bible say on Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage?
www.marriagedivorce.com
www.cadz.net/faq.html
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 4/21/2008 4:26:47 PM
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keepingfaith
Posts: 840
Joined: 5/11/2007
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I just started studying more on the RC teachings on annulments (some of their qualifications I don't believe are scriptural). Does anyone know more about this? I know I'm opening a whole new can of worms here.
I'm seeing some say that the Catholic Church does not recognize any marriages that are not performed in their church? They do not consider anyone "married" in God's eyes if they are not Catholic and were not married by a Priest? Is there scripture to back this? They also say that if both were not baptized Christians before they married, the marriage wasn't recognized. I know scripture proves that wrong since even unbelievers marriages are recognized.
Sorry not sure if this is too far off topic... please redirect me if so.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 4/21/2008 4:36:22 PM
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Fritzpw_Admin
Posts: 7663
Joined: 2/28/2005
From: New Jersey
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quote:
ORIGINAL: keepingfaith
I just started studying more on the RC teachings on annulments (some of their qualifications I don't believe are scriptural). Does anyone know more about this? I know I'm opening a whole new can of worms here.
I'm seeing some say that the Catholic Church does not recognize any marriages that are not performed in their church? They do not consider anyone "married" in God's eyes if they are not Catholic and were not married by a Priest? Is there scripture to back this? They also say that if both were not baptized Christians before they married, the marriage wasn't recognized. I know scripture proves that wrong since even unbelievers marriages are recognized.
Sorry not sure if this is too far off topic... please redirect me if so.
Yeah, that's off-topic for this thread.
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Fritz
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 4/21/2008 7:00:51 PM
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Restored_Heart
Posts: 931
Joined: 7/23/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lastblast
quote:
ORIGINAL: Restored_Heart
That is why Jesus talked about the certificate of divorce. Many of the men in question were not obtaining the "get", just issuing a verbal "I divorce you" and sending the woman away.
Jesus NEVER addressed the certificate of divorce. He addressed the action of putting away---period, not the method in putting someone away.
Actually He did... at the beginning of his talk about it in Matthew.
_____________________________
"Ya mom, I got to see "Some Italian guy" in concert..."
Some Italian guy? (Carman) :p
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 4/21/2008 7:52:43 PM
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lastblast
Posts: 1599
Joined: 9/20/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Restored_Heart
Actually He did... at the beginning of his talk about it in Matthew.
Actually, Jesus never mentions the "paper", He says, "Moses BECAUSE of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, BUT FROM THE BEGINNING, IT WAS NOT SO".
Where do you see in any of this Jesus speaking to the METHOD of putting away, rather than the act of rejecting the wives (with or without a paper)?
_____________________________
Blessings as you seek Him, Cindy
What does the bible say on Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage?
www.marriagedivorce.com
www.cadz.net/faq.html
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 4/21/2008 8:50:51 PM
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gmc4Jesus
Posts: 227
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Torrance, California
Status: offline
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Fritz,
I just came upon this post and thought I would contribute my thoughts and understanding. First, I have been in ministry all of my adult life. I served as a preaching minister for over 15 years and have been in voluntary ministry since 1990. Currently, I have written a Bible study series on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ titled, “Getting To Know Jesus”. I have always understood that the Bible clearly teaches that marriage is a life-time covenant between one man and one woman. Any other relationship involving sex is outside of God’s will.
Second, I am divorced twice and remarried twice. My first marriage ended after 17 years. It wasn’t my choice, but who has a choice in California? I pray that I never do that again. It was during this time that I realized that divorce and remarriage, though sin (cf. Jesus’ comments in Matthew 19), it is not the unforgiveable sin (it is sin, but not unforgivable). My second marriage was “on the rebound” and she ended it less than four years later.
My current marriage is for life (eleven years so far). When I proposed to my wife I said, “If divorce is an option, marriage is not. However, if divorce is not an option, marriage is.” That was over twelve years ago.
Everyone on this post has most likely researched and read all of the Scriptures on marriage and divorce. I will stand strongly with the Word of God and not seek to water down anything that it says. Marriage is for life and divorce is sin! That said, divorce is not how God desired us to keep our covenant of marriage to our spouse.
As I said earlier, divorce is not the unforgiveable sin. The “unforgiveable sin” is to deny Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior (Matthew 12:31-32; Mark 3:28-29; Luke 12:10). A person who is divorced, but is truly repentant can be forgiven and can still serve in ministry. We allow former drug addicts, alcoholics and even criminals to become preachers of the Gospel. Isn’t God’s grace applicable to a person who is divorced and remarried as long as they have repented and asked forgiveness for their sin? The only qualifier here would be if they still believe that divorce is acceptable in their current situation. In other words, have they truly repented?
In John 8:1-11, Jesus forgave the woman who had been caught in adultery. In Luke 7:36-50, Jesus is invited to dinner at a Pharisee’s house. While there, an adulterous woman comes and washes His feet with her tears and hair. Jesus does not reject her, but forgives her of her sins. If He can forgive her, is it possible that He might likewise forgive someone else who has committed similar sin?
In the Old Testament, Rahab was a prostitute, but God used her and included her in the lineage of Jesus. Bathsheba had the affair with David, making both adulterers, yet it is Bathsheba’s child from which the lineage of Jesus came. God is the God of grace. That doesn’t give us right to continue in sin, but it does make forgiveness available when we are sorry for our sin. If God allowed these “sinners” to serve in the lineage of His Son, could He possibly forgive me or anyone else who has been married, divorced and married to someone else? I believe so.
I commend all who are working to get marriage back to a life-time covenant between one man and one woman. Divorce is way too common and easy, even among Christians. I strongly believe that more needs to be done to stop the divorces from happening. However, divorce is not unforgiveable and should not be criteria by itself for whether one is qualified to serve in ministry. Whether they are repentant of their adultery is an issue, but the fact of it in their past does not mean that it will control their future.
_____________________________
Let's talk about Jesus, His life and teachings at the www.gettingtoknowjesus.org Gospel Study Forum.
Home of "Getting To Know Jesus", a complete Bible study on the life and teachings of Jesus.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 4/21/2008 9:22:25 PM
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keepingfaith
Posts: 840
Joined: 5/11/2007
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quote:
That doesn’t give us right to continue in sin, but it does make forgiveness available when we are sorry for our sin.
You are correct- no sin is unforgiveable when repented of. He told the woman in adultery to go and sin no more. You are correct that His grace doesn't give us the right to continue in sin. If Jesus calls a relationship adultery, repentance requires not continuing in it.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 4/21/2008 11:14:56 PM
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Dakotasunbeam
Posts: 985
Joined: 6/2/2005
From: Midwest USA
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p.progress, very interesting indeed. You are correct, words do have meaning. And I'v found this is an area Satan really likes to have a foothold. If I may note, in Genesis, when the serpent tempted Eve with the apple, He said toyed with interpretations and selfish motives:
Now the serpent was more subtil than any beat of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yeah, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? And the woman said unto the serpent, we may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it lest ye die. And the serpent said unto the woman, ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."--Genesis 3:1-5
But God had said:
And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest threof thou shalt surely die.--Genesis 2:16-17
The Enemy of our soul will always make us question God's word so that we may satisfy the flesh. Eve, unfortunately did not realize just how unshakeable God's word was--but Satan did. In fact, that's what the Tempter has been doing forever. He knows that there is no way to break God's word, so he specializes in breaking mankind over God's word. God's word is always simple with clear cut answers so there is no confusion or guesswork. Satan adds that element of puzzlement and doubt that only serves to destroy the man/woman that believes him.
Another thing that really stood out to me about your post, was this scripture here:
Mal 2:14 Yet ye say, Wherefore? Because the LORD hath been witness between thee and the wife of thy youth, against whom thou hast dealt treacherously: yet [is] she thy companion, and the wife of thy covenant.
This really just pinched me in my spirit and continues to affirm covenant marriage. It says, "yet she is thy companion and the wife of thy covenant." God is only looking at that covenant you made with Him the first time.
Sometimes, I think man takes God for a fool. If I would not trust someone after lying to me the first time, how would God honor another "covenant" with you if you did not keep your word on the first?
Appreciated your post!
quote:
ORIGINAL: p.progress
I repeat from other posts of mine: To properly follow the instruction that "if any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God" then the student of scripture will refrain from falling into the trap of using the new-speak of the ungodly which both coined and set the definition for their hybrid word and expression they call 'remarriage'.
This is not some personal obsession to be techinically correct, or make some unimportant point. It is very important to see, recognize and acknowledge to yourself (at least) that words have meaning and in using them we are seeking to communicate our thoughts. The problem with the hybrid term of 'remarriage' is that you cannot employ it (you cannot use it) without communicating you are in agreement with it as well - agreement with the commonly held definition(s) the word 'remarriage' was from the onset encoded with and intended to mean - whether you agree with it in fact or not.
The world, and worldly professors of Christianity (a judgment I make regarding no one specifically, not in this forum at least) define their hybrid expression 'remarriage' to fit and frame their belief. And their belief is that one way or another, it is acceptable and permitted by God himself for a wife that was 'put away' and 'divorced'; and a wife that has deserted by 'departing' her husband; and a wife whose husband has engaged in sexual relations with another woman to then "marry another". That is how 'remarriage' is defined and its definition is absent of any condemnation of such actions [yes, I know the inventers and consumers of this hybrid term 'remarriage' also apply this to men as well who 'remarry'].
But 'remarriage' cannot rightly refer to any woman or man that has deserted or was deserted by their first spouse, and afterwards - whether after a day, a month a year or years later - goes on in a forward direction away from their former position and "marries another". 'RE'- marriage both grammatically speaking and scripturally speaking cannot mean this, but can only refer to a man but more clearly a wife who RE-conciles with both herself and her God, which will led her then to "be RE-conciled" with her husband...her first husband - that is the man her father gave her to, "to wife" (or "gave in marriage") her "first husband" [Hos.2.7; Mal.]. She must first RE- pent of her waywardness; RE-turn' to her "first husband". That is true re-marriage.
Hsa 2:7 And she shall follow after her lovers, but she shall not overtake them; and she shall seek them, but shall not find [them]: then shall she say, I will go and return to my first husband; for then [was it] better with me than now.
See here a parallel in the allogorical tale of the 'prodigal son' I've adapted below:
Luk 15:17-19 And when [she] came to [her]self, [she] said, How many hired servants of my [first husband's] have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger! I will arise and go to my [first husband], and will say unto him, [My husband], I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, And am no more worthy to be called thy [wife]: make me as one of thy hired [maid]servants.
And what was the attitude and heart of the Father to his son - to his dishonoring, selfish and rebellious son? No doubt God is infinitely and eternally more pure, loving, patient and self sacrificing for the good of us than we are humanly capable of maintaining and displaying to those that continually wound us, demean and reject and abandon us for others and/or other things they inexplicably and insanely place value in, more than what God demands of them and seeks to encourage them to (all of us) value.
So though his command to "remain unmarried" to the disobeient wife will over time seem to her to be insensitive, impractical and frankly unbelieveable; and hense she will look and find some 'promise' in the scriptures that will grant to her itching ears be
Mal 2:14 Yet ye say, Wherefore? Because the LORD hath been witness between thee and the wife of thy youth, against whom thou hast dealt treacherously: yet [is] she thy companion, and the wife of thy covenant.
Mal 2:15 And did not he make one? Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek a godly seed. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth.
Mal 2:16 For the LORD, the God of Israel, saith that he hateth putting away: for [one] covereth violence with his garment, saith the LORD of hosts: therefore take heed to your spirit, that ye deal not treacherously.
< Message edited by Dakotasunbeam -- 4/21/2008 11:37:34 PM >
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 4/21/2008 11:30:54 PM
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Dakotasunbeam
Posts: 985
Joined: 6/2/2005
From: Midwest USA
Status: offline
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gmc4Jesus,
quote:
My current marriage is for life (eleven years so far). When I proposed to my wife I said, “If divorce is an option, marriage is not. However, if divorce is not an option, marriage is.” That was over twelve years ago.
Is this your word to God or to your wife?
How does God take one seriously on the third, fourth, fifth go-round? A vow is to be kept and God fully expects you to keep them. How does one expect God to create another covenant with them when they broke the first with Him.
We play cat and mouse with God as though He is a bird to be toyed with. He knows when we didn't keep the first vow. How and WHY would He honor a second set of words that could end up being meaningless too? God knew the vain heart of man, and so He said KEEP your vows, and that He fully expects for them to be paid. We may not keep our vows, but God is not going to create a whole new covenant for us with a new person, and a new set of words that we are calling vows. You see, the reason you cannot break a vow with God, is because when you make a vow you are actually entering into a DEAL with God.
The DEAL requires you to keep one part of the bargain and God to keep the other. If God says He is going to keep one part of the bargain, you can bet your life He's going to keep it. So just because you or I flunk out of the vow, does NOT mean God has too. He can't. Because HE IS HIS WORD. And it is impossible for God to LIE. He can't because He said, "I am the Lord your God, I change NOT. He CAN'T DO IT. He has to keep His own word. So, when you make a vow to God, you're not just shouting at the air, you're making a DEAL or a COVENANT with God. It means HE has to make some declarations and actions HIMSELF. HE joins TWO and makes them ONE. When we break a covenant with GOD, we do not make Him a liar, we make liars of ourselves. When we break a vow with God, you can bet He doesn't like it. You can bet it goes against His will. You can bet that is a sin.
The Bible tells us this plainly, "Do not be decieved, God is NOT mocked. Whatsoever a man sows that shall he reap." I mean, c'mon, if God had to undo all of these marriages He entered into covenant with and joined two to become one flesh, don't you think people would mock God? Well, they are mocking the current "church" with its high divorce rate. But don't you know, you God is NOT mocked. You cannot make a pansy or a fall guy of God. "Oops, God, I didn't mean that. Let's try that again." "No, no, that's not what I meant, I meant this instead." "Oh, no, you heard wrong. That's not really the case." "Wait, no, I don't think this was really in Your will, so I've re-arranged things, to uh, to glorify You. Yeah, to glorify you."
God is not stupid. You cannot enter into a vow/covenant with Him and then back out.
Mankind is incredible if we wish to decieve ourselves at this level. Truly it was said, You can't break God's law, you can only break yourself on it.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 4/22/2008 8:35:31 AM
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car2ner
Posts: 2944
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: just north of Florida
Status: offline
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quote:
Is this your word to God or to your wife?
How does God take one seriously on the third, fourth, fifth go-round? A vow is to be kept and God fully expects you to keep them. How does one expect God to create another covenant with them when they broke the first with Him.
We break our promises to God all the time. It is the sin of pride we carry around everyday, when we think we are so very good and follow all the rules and won't God pat us on the back for it.
Even at my best I get a "poopy" attitude now and then or think a bit more highly of myself than I ought to. We all do. And God covers our foolishness with His son's love and sacrifice and we move on. I am talking generalities here, but for some reason, this joining in union with someone other than the first partner is a BIG sin while all the ones we do daily are so little they are barely noticed. And yet in God's eyes, they are all sin. And His wonderful grace covers them all. We don't get off completely freely. Often we have to live out the consequences of our choices here on earth.
_____________________________
http://www.car2ner.2ya.com
"May your days be long and your hardships few".
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 4/22/2008 10:05:15 AM
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keepingfaith
Posts: 840
Joined: 5/11/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
I am talking generalities here, but for some reason, this joining in union with someone other than the first partner is a BIG sin while all the ones we do daily are so little they are barely noticed. And yet in God's eyes, they are all sin.
That's right we all "fall" at times in our walk and struggle daily with sin. But there is a difference in "falling" and deliberate calcuated willful rebellion to God. If we truly are repentant we will seek to right our wrongs, and seek to bring our lives in line with His Word. If we are living in direct opposition to His Word we should not be at peace.
There is a huge difference in "can't" and "won't" keep my vows. It is within our power. He gives us the grace to do what He asks. It is a choice... our choice and we don't get to blame our choices and our sin on anyone else. We don't get to use the cop out... God will forgive me- he knows I'm not perfect. Choosing to sin just because he has already "covered" it is not wise.
We should not minimize the sacredness of marriage by saying sin is sin... This relationship is the most important second to our relationship with Christ. He makes it clear He takes it very seriously- He says it mirrors the relationship of Christ and the Church.
It's funny how much that argument is used though... "sin is sin- we all fall short"- by the same folks who don't appear to believe that "sin is sin" because they have decided that adultery is the unforgiveable sin in their exception for divorce. If we really believe in the wonderful grace of God and that we all fall short... we WILL extend that same grace to our spouse (which will not include divorce).
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 4/22/2008 11:02:12 AM
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lastblast
Posts: 1599
Joined: 9/20/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: car2ner
I am talking generalities here, but for some reason, this joining in union with someone other than the first partner is a BIG sin while all the ones we do daily are so little they are barely noticed. And yet in God's eyes, they are all sin. And His wonderful grace covers them all. We don't get off completely freely. Often we have to live out the consequences of our choices here on earth.
Continuing to live with another person's spouse, defined as such by our Saviour, IS quite different than stumbling daily and asking the Lord for forgiveness and strength not to continue in sinful practices and attitudes. What you are proposing is Grace to CONTINUE to live with another man's wife/another woman's husband. That is not biblical.
_____________________________
Blessings as you seek Him, Cindy
What does the bible say on Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage?
www.marriagedivorce.com
www.cadz.net/faq.html
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 4/22/2008 11:13:04 AM
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lastblast
Posts: 1599
Joined: 9/20/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gmc4Jesus
the Bible clearly teaches that marriage is a life-time covenant between one man and one woman. Any other relationship involving sex is outside of God’s will.
I am divorced twice and remarried twice.
Marriage is for life and divorce is sin!
Isn’t God’s grace applicable to a person who is divorced and remarried as long as they have repented and asked forgiveness for their sin
Is marriage for life, or is it not? It can't be both as you are intimating here. It is either an "ideal" to shoot for or lifelong marriage is a REALITY, dictated as such by God Himself.
Your post very much reminds of a pamplet a pastor gave my husband and I which said, "MARRIAGE is PERMANENT!!!!".................then it went on to say how in all these various situations it WASN'T permanent. My husband and I just shook our heads and when we approached this pastor on how something can be permanent, but yet not permanent, he could not answer that intelligently/biblically. He just got flustered and shut down any future dialogue.
Paul and Jesus both taught that the original marriage IS lifelong (not an ideal) and that only DEATH, not divorce, not adultery, dissolves the union GOD joins together (Rom. 7:2-3, I Cor. 7:39). We can freely enter into culturally legalized adulterous unions, but God does not appear to join such unions as ONE flesh, for He has already done that with another person.
I personally do not get the mindset that "if my spouse does not live up to their commitment to me, I don't have to live up to what I vowed either". Where is that found in God's Word? WE are called to honor the vow we have made with our own mouths-----unconditionally. We do not have the power to annul what God has joined together. All we have the power to do is either walk out our part of the covenant, leaving the other spouse in the Lord's hands, or we can walk away from our part and then enter into a sinful relationship with another. We can call it "marriage", but in God's Word, He calls it adultery (being joined with someone who is NOT your spouse). One can't be a spouse, if God says they are not a spouse.
_____________________________
Blessings as you seek Him, Cindy
What does the bible say on Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage?
www.marriagedivorce.com
www.cadz.net/faq.html
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 4/22/2008 12:14:38 PM
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Dakotasunbeam
Posts: 985
Joined: 6/2/2005
From: Midwest USA
Status: offline
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car2ner,
quote:
We break our promises to God all the time.
A vow is like a DEAL with God. It includes preconditions and expectations to which both--or in the case of marriage, all three parties are obligated. I don't vow or promise ANYTHING to God. In fact, Jesus and the apostles did not advise making vows at all. Why? Because Jesus knew, that in order for you to get back into right standing with God, after having made a vow, was to KEEP the vow.
quote:
It is the sin of pride we carry around everyday, when we think we are so very good and follow all the rules and won't God pat us on the back for it.
Even at my best I get a "poopy" attitude now and then or think a bit more highly of myself than I ought to. We all do. And God covers our foolishness with His son's love and sacrifice and we move on.
I really hope this is not how you operate. Even getting an "attitude" and being filled with pride (a sin) we must REPENT, and determine not to do it again.
quote:
I am talking generalities here, but for some reason, this joining in union with someone other than the first partner is a BIG sin while all the ones we do daily are so little they are barely noticed.
A vow is not a sin. A vow is something you willingly and uncoerced entered into with God and another individual. It is a covenant, a contract, a deal. Parties gave their word and The Service (two joined to become one) was performed by God. You willingly entered a binding lifetime contract with God and your first spouse. You willing gave a vow which MUST be paid. Hence, the only way to repent of breaking a vow, is keeping a vow. Simple. Unambiguous. And clear.
If you do not keep a vow, you are reprobate until you do so. You are unreconciled with God until you keep your vow. Hense the warning that adulterers and adulteresses would not enter the kingdom of heaven. They are not keeping their vows and covenants and therefore have not been reconciled to God.
Why does God call them, "treaterous?" Because they have LIED for their own benefit, and not only have they forsaken "the spouse of their youth," but they have forsaken God. Because He stands in judgement saying, "Will you not keep a vow to ME?"
quote:
And yet in God's eyes, they are all sin.
Yep, a broken vow is sin and adultery is sin too. How did God instruct the woman caught in adultery to remedy her sin? "Go and sin no more?" How do you think God will tell someone who has broken their vow, "Go and sin no more." What was the sin for the adulteress? Adultery. What was the sin for the vow breaker? Breaking a vow. How do you remedy breaking a vow? You keep it.
You see the Bible will always tell us HOW to obey God. The Bible says our vows are to be FULLY paid. So if we only pay partially, are we in right standing with God? Nope, we sin. Or, how about if we almost pay them? No again, we have to pay them fully. The solution is plain. Pay your vow. Don't sin, pay your vows to God.
The Bible says, He keeps His word so that we may keep it. All starting to make sense, now! All of the Bible articulates.
quote:
And His wonderful grace covers them all. Yep, when we repent and ask forgiveness. Because if His wonderful grace was all that it took, there would not be a wide road leading to Hades. In fact, NO ONE would perish. But we know that is not the case. Only by accepting that grace, repenting, and asking forgiveness can we enter into that grace.
quote:
We don't get off completely freely. Often we have to live out the consequences of our choices here on earth. True, true. Even after repenting, asking forgiveness AND accepting His grace, we still must face those consequences here on earth. But if we do not reconcile with Him, and continue to make ourselves covenant breakers by not keeping our vow to Him, we have rejected His grace in favor of a short, albiet "pleasant" consequence on earth. We bypass reconcilliation with Him by refusing to keep the vow we made to Him and what is left but a fearful expectation of the wrath to come?
Jesus Christ, who is very God advised us it would be better not to make a vow. Again you find Jesus saying the same thing to His disciples regarding the marriage vow. There is a reason in these two instances Jesus urged us to be wary. He knew the ficklness of man and the unpredictable nature of life. He knew that a fickle man in dynamic circumstances, would be making a deal with an unchanging God. The good thing about a vow, is that you know God will ALWAYS keep His end of the deal NO MATTER WHAT. That's security and comfort for us. The bad part, is that you don't know the future, what will change, how you will change, etc. etc. So it's important to THINK before you vow. Whether in marriage or life.
The Bible tells us vows are to be fully paid. To transgress is not to keep your vow. To Keep your vow is to remedy your transgression.
Blessings!
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 4/22/2008 12:20:06 PM
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Fritzpw_Admin
Posts: 7663
Joined: 2/28/2005
From: New Jersey
Status: offline
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ADMIN'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
To everyone,
I want to be very clear about something.
The purpose of this thread is to dicuss the TOPIC of Remarriage After Divorce.
It is NOT for the purpose of discussing YOUR divorce.
I have found that people who post with statements like, "so because I divorced my spouse I am now forever a sinner and never to be forgiven?" are opening themselves up to being hurt or hurting someone else.
If you are not able to participate in this topic without discussing the experience of YOUR divorce then I must request that you stay out of the thread.
Posts which ignore this warning will be removed without warning and may result in other action in accordance with the Terms of Service.
Thank you for your attention, understanding, and cooperation.
Please do not reply to this message within the Community.
Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns.
Please do not send me PMs regarding this message.
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Fritz
Senior Manager of Social Media
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 4/22/2008 5:06:58 PM
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car2ner
Posts: 2944
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: just north of Florida
Status: offline
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quote:
There is a huge differance in "can't" and "won't" keep my vows. It is within our power. He gives us the grace to do what He asks. It is a choice... our choice and we don't get to blame our choices and our sin on anyone else. We don't get to use the cop out... God will forgive me- he knows I'm not perfect. Choosing to sin just because he has already "covered" it is not wise.
I agree 100%.
What we disagree with is the concept that marrying a differant partner when our original partner is still alive is or is not continuous adultery.
_____________________________
http://www.car2ner.2ya.com
"May your days be long and your hardships few".
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