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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/15/2008 11:42:37 PM
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p.progress
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8/15/2008 9:36:38 PM
SealedEternal says:
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I agree, but nevertheless every marriage I've attended did ask both parties to make unconditional vows to stay together until death do them part, which is consistent with God's regulations in scripture.
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I don't think there's anything wrong with taking that particular vow however since it is biblical:
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You are correct though, that everyone who enters His institution, is joined together by Him, and subject to His regulations whether they vowed to them or not:
Yes, well for those that have done or do this, only add to their obligations: 1st what saith God to them; and 2nd, what they say to him.
Yet we know that their vows or the breaking of them, and what man claims all this means and provides 'exceptions' to, mean nothing to God - as they are first foremost and ONLY required to do as he says in all that he says regarding the one-flesh relationship.
P.P.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/16/2008 1:07:12 PM
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Butterflytearz
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quote:
For a man to take what he has no right or authority given to him to take is not only a violation of other things in scripture, it is and you (all of us) need to get a sure grip on this, that the taking of the daughter not given but refused to be given is to break at least the 10th commandment - read it. For the daughter to attempt to marry when her living father refuses her to is to break the 5th commandment - read it. It still applies even in this culture. This is wrongful marriage and needs to be annuled - it is fornication, and if they separate, she may marry another whom her father DOES give her to.
PProgress
The living Father is God,,, He is the one who can lawfully give his daughter or son in marriage. If you are thinking on these lines then I agree.
If we marry one who is not of the Lord,,then that marriage is of the world.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/16/2008 1:14:28 PM
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Butterflytearz
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quote:
I take what you said above to mean that the reason you don't sense you are free to reconcile, is because your husband is not willing as yet to do so, not that you are not willing. It is good that you are not of the mind to "marry another", as that would not only constitute adultery on your part, but would show that you let die within you faith and hope; that you stopped having faith to pray and believe for (more importantly) the 'hope' of your husband's salvation.
I cannot remarry my ex unless he has a change of heart. And no,, right now he is not willing.
I also stated in my post I am a peace with being single,
My ex is in great bondage to things of the flesh. I could write a book about it but I have forgiven him for he knows not what he does so I leave him in God's hands.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/16/2008 6:31:54 PM
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p.progress
Posts: 149
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Butterflytearz
quote:
For a man to take what he has no right or authority given to him to take is not only a violation of other things in scripture, it is and you (all of us) need to get a sure grip on this, that the taking of the daughter not given but refused to be given is to break at least the 10th commandment - read it. For the daughter to attempt to marry when her living father refuses her to is to break the 5th commandment - read it. It still applies even in this culture. This is wrongful marriage and needs to be annuled - it is fornication, and if they separate, she may marry another whom her father DOES give her to.
PProgress
The living Father is God,,, He is the one who can lawfully give his daughter or son in marriage. If you are thinking on these lines then I agree.
If we marry one who is not of the Lord,,then that marriage is of the world.
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"If you are thinking on these lines then I agree."
No, Butterflytearz. No, I'm not "thinking on these lines" - on or as I think you meant to say 'along' "these lines", so you are free to disagree.
Do you know what 'spiritualizing scripture' means; what 'spiritualizing' a passage, or concept or teaching that God clearly sets forth in scripture means?
While it is certainly true that God is a Father, the Heavenly Father of those born of his Spirit after they have received the forgiveness of their sins through accepting his Son in their place for the punishment of their sins; THAT FACT does not CHANGE, ALTER, SWEEP AWAY this FACT, that all that he has written for his children WHO STILL DWELL ON EARTH, is STILL in force, and they are STILL commanded to live in conformity to (OBEY and follow) what he has written for them to keep and obey.
And among the things that the children of God who still dwell in the flesh and walk in this present world are to 'keep', are the commandments relating to the relationships that God has established within the sphere of family relationships, as well as other spheres of human relationships. That means that when God said to Moses "Honor thy father and thy mother", and when Christ reiterated this, and later Paul his apostle did again, and applied it to who [?] - not only to the children of this world, but clearly and specifically as well to the 'CHILDREN' of God (the Heavenly Father, ...to believers, the saints, disciples and their children.
That is to say that we are subject the the law of God here on this earth; in his law he says to honor thy father and thy mother; in his law we read much of the authority and rule of the father over his household - which includes of course his children...his daughters. And if you don't understand that or even want to try to begin to examine whether this is so or not from a careful and thorough study of both the OT and the NT, then that is your choice of course.
But the fact remains that daughters (specifically being spoken of here) are subject to their father's rule (authority). And neither unbelieving daughters nor believing daughters are free or at 'liberty' to marry whomsoever they will - out of or in the Lord.
I am not under the Law, but that does not free me to violate either the letter of the Law, or the spirit of the Law. And I am not referring to those these contained in ordinaces or the priestly sacrifical system that was certainly done away with, and by no means 'carried over' to the New Covenant, that Hebrews addresses. The commands regarding the relationships of husband to wife, wife to husband, father to children and children to their father, has not been done away with, annuled, fulfilled or otherwise. And you can see this is still true by reading Paul's and Peter's use and application of the Holy Scriptures to the saints, the children of God.
And in 1Cor. 7:36-38, Paul has turned from the subject of the widowed (8-9), the married believers (10-11), the married believer to the unbeliever (12-16), the virgins (25-28, 31-35) to that of the father's of virgins...virgin daughters.
You might try to say that this is not being addressed to the father of any virgin, but only to the virgin himself, and speaking about whatever it is that you want it to say to your ears. But the language and phrases when taken in their fullest context, the fullest contextual setting that only having studied this subject as it is presented and discovered throughout whole of the scriptures, will be easily show you that Paul was addressing the father's prerogative right to either "keep his virgin" daughter and not 'give her' in marriage to any man; or to exercise his prerogative rights to "give her in marriage" to the man HE finds worthy of his daughter.
The scriptures are not just recording wha the cultures of those times did and practised under a patriarchal role. The scriptures record that the cultures at those times were more in conformity to the will of God in these matters than those of these "latter times". I can say this with some degree of confidence and little fear of any genuine contradiction, because the Law ordained this as well. God's law was not accomodating the whims of the culture, it set the standard. And in that standard, the rule of the man, the husband and father is clearly expressed and spelled out - and it is so in the writings of the apostles...in the New Covenant, that the Testator, Christ gave to them for us to "keep".
If your earthly father and brothers and guardians are dead, well then you it would appear are at liberty THEN to marry whoever you will...oh except you are not at liberty to marry another woman's husband, or a woman, or your uncle, or an animal - only an man who is free before God to marry...and oh yes, "only in the Lord".
P.P.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/16/2008 6:39:08 PM
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p.progress
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[quote]ORIGINAL: Butterflytearz
quote:
I take what you said above to mean that the reason you don't sense you are free to reconcile, is because your husband is not willing as yet to do so, not that you are not willing. It is good that you are not of the mind to "marry another", as that would not only constitute adultery on your part, but would show that you let die within you faith and hope; that you stopped having faith to pray and believe for (more importantly) the 'hope' of your husband's salvation.
I cannot remarry my ex unless he has a change of heart. And no,, right now he is not willing.
I also stated in my post I am a peace with being single,
My ex is in great bondage to things of the flesh. I could write a book about it but I have forgiven him for he knows not what he does so I leave him in God's hands.
quote:
"I cannot remarry my ex unless he has a change of heart. And no,, right now he is not willing."
If he is not willing, it is because his heart is not right as yet. So it stands to reason that you cannot re-marry him - he's unwilling But if he was willing, you I take it are willing to re-marry...re-unite with him. Good, I am glad your heart is still tender towards God in that way. God bless
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/16/2008 11:54:18 PM
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gmc4Jesus
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I haven't been able to get on in several days and I noticed some comments after my last post #9652. Although someone else may have already said what I'm about to say, I will repeat it because you, like me, are not likely to go back and read over 9500 posts to see what everyone else has said. That said, here's my comments.
Some have itterated that to divorce and remarry is adultery and the Bible does state (in more than one place in the New Testament) that the immoral and adulterers will not inherit eternal life. That being the case, how can anyone who is already divorced and remarried have eternal life?
If you recall, in Matthew 12:31 and Mark 3:28-29, Jesus said that the only unforgiveable sin is blaspheming the Holy Spirit. If you follow the purpose of the Holy Spirit - to lead people to Jesus so they can be saved, then how does a divorced and remarried person get back into God's grace?
John 1:17 reminds us that grace came through Jesus Christ. Many other verses advise forgiveness of those who repent and believe in Jesus as Lord and Savior. God is not the God of laws and works, but the God of grace. Paul refers to it again and again.
The point is this. If someone has divorced, that is sin. If they remarry, that is also sin. However, if they have acknowledged their sin and repented, God will not refuse to forgive them. The only criteria is whether they acknowledge Jesus as Lord and are sincerely trying to follow Him.
Paul reminds us that, even as a Christian, he still struggled with sin. All of us will acknowledge that we struggle with sin, whether it is sexual or not. Is any one sin forgiveable and another sin not forgiveable? Only the sin of rejecting Jesus.
Divorce and remarriage are forgiveable sins. The person who will not inherit eternal life is the one who does not repent of his sin. In so doing the unrepentant sinner is denying the Holy Spirit's testimony of the salvation that is available in Jesus Christ.
I would pray that everyone take their marriage vows seriously and learn to get along with and love their spouse. I would also pray that those who are divorced will repent and commit their life to living according to God's standards. I also pray that any who are remarried, after having divorced their first spousel, will ask God to forgive them and make a stronger commitment to make this marriage last a lifetime.
_____________________________
Let's talk about Jesus, His life and teachings at the www.gettingtoknowjesus.org Gospel Study Forum.
Home of "Getting To Know Jesus", a complete Bible study on the life and teachings of Jesus.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/17/2008 11:12:20 AM
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SealedEternal
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gmc4Jesus
Some have itterated that to divorce and remarry is adultery and the Bible does state (in more than one place in the New Testament) that the immoral and adulterers will not inherit eternal life. That being the case, how can anyone who is already divorced and remarried have eternal life?
By repenting of what Jesus defines as adultery, which means to end the extramarital relationship and cease from committing the sin from then forward. Repentance is not saying sorry and then continuing on in the sin, it is changing ones mind about the sin and turning from it. If remarriage after divorce is adultery as Jesus said, then the first marriage is still valid in God's eyes after the divorce, and the second so-called "marriage" is an extramarital affair of a married person having relations with someone who is not his or her spouse. Therefore repentance must involve ending the adulterous affair, and if possible reconciling with the one who God regards as the true spouse.
SealedEternal
_____________________________
For information on Marriage and Divorce http://sealedeternal.bravehost.com/1.html
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/17/2008 11:14:41 AM
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benelchi
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SealedEternal
quote:
ORIGINAL: gmc4Jesus
Some have itterated that to divorce and remarry is adultery and the Bible does state (in more than one place in the New Testament) that the immoral and adulterers will not inherit eternal life. That being the case, how can anyone who is already divorced and remarried have eternal life?
By repenting of what Jesus defines as adultery, which means to end the extramarital relationship and cease from committing the sin from then forward. Repentance is not saying sorry and then continuing on in the sin, it is changing ones mind about the sin and turning from it. If remarriage after divorce is adultery as Jesus said, then the first marriage is still valid in God's eyes after the divorce, and the second so-called "marriage" is an extramarital affair of a married person having relations with someone who is not his or her spouse. Therefore repentance must involve ending the adulterous affair, and if possible reconciling with the one who God regards as the true spouse.
SealedEternal
But that command goes against the clear written instructions given in Du. 24:1-4; I must assume that this is Sealed's command and not Jesus'
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/17/2008 12:12:02 PM
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SealedEternal
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quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
ORIGINAL: SealedEternal
quote:
ORIGINAL: gmc4Jesus
Some have itterated that to divorce and remarry is adultery and the Bible does state (in more than one place in the New Testament) that the immoral and adulterers will not inherit eternal life. That being the case, how can anyone who is already divorced and remarried have eternal life?
By repenting of what Jesus defines as adultery, which means to end the extramarital relationship and cease from committing the sin from then forward. Repentance is not saying sorry and then continuing on in the sin, it is changing ones mind about the sin and turning from it. If remarriage after divorce is adultery as Jesus said, then the first marriage is still valid in God's eyes after the divorce, and the second so-called "marriage" is an extramarital affair of a married person having relations with someone who is not his or her spouse. Therefore repentance must involve ending the adulterous affair, and if possible reconciling with the one who God regards as the true spouse.
SealedEternal
But that command goes against the clear written instructions given in Du. 24:1-4; I must assume that this is Sealed's command and not Jesus'
No it doesn't, unless you confuse the legal provision for a type of divorce to those under the Old Covenant, with divorces by those not done according to the Old Covenant provision, or by those who are not under it, which Jesus said result in adulterous extramarital affairs when the person remarries, because God doesn't recognize the divorce as legal, and thus they are still married to the original spouse. You have to rightly divide the Word rather than mixing and matching verses to fit your own agenda.
Adultery by definition is not a marriage, but is a married person having relations with someone who is not his or her spouse, or someone having relations with someone elses spouse. That is entirely different than a legal Old Covenant divorce for an Old Covenant man who found his wife unchaste when he married her as the Law said. And Jesus told the Pharisees that even if the Old Covenant man divorced his wife for any cause other than fornication, he committed adultery by remarrying and made her commit adultery by illegally divorcing her, so even for Old Covenant people divorce and remarriage as we know it always resulted in adultery. You can't mix apples and oranges to accomodate a doctrine, but must properly put both sets of commandments in their proper context.
SealedEternal
_____________________________
For information on Marriage and Divorce http://sealedeternal.bravehost.com/1.html
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/17/2008 1:45:52 PM
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keepingfaith
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quote:
But that command goes against the clear written instructions given in Du. 24:1-4; I must assume that this is Sealed's command and not Jesus'
Actually the command is from Jesus...Exodus 20:14- "You shall not commit adultery."
Notice the placement of the following warning...
Matthew 5:29-32
"If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell." "If your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to go into hell. " "It WAS said, 'Whoever sends his wife away, let him give her a certificate of divorce'; BUT I SAY to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery."
Luke 16:18
"EVERYONE who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery."
Mark 10:11-12
"WHOEVER divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her; and if she herself divorces her husband and marries another man, she is committing adultery."
Hebrews 13:4
"Marriage is to be held in honor among all, and the marriage bed is to be undefiled; for fornicators and adulterers God will judge."
1 Cor 6:9-11
"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. Such WERE some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
Galatians 5:19-21
"The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God."
< Message edited by keepingfaith -- 8/17/2008 2:01:41 PM >
_____________________________
"My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends." John 15:12-13
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/17/2008 2:14:55 PM
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car2ner
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and none of those verses continue on, "verily I say unto you, therefore go and divorce yourselves again....."
_____________________________
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"May your days be long and your hardships few".
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/17/2008 3:26:11 PM
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SealedEternal
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quote:
ORIGINAL: car2ner
and none of those verses continue on, "verily I say unto you, therefore go and divorce yourselves again....."
Obviously, since if it is adultery then by definition it is not a legal marriage in His eyes, and doesn't require a divorce.
SealedEternal
_____________________________
For information on Marriage and Divorce http://sealedeternal.bravehost.com/1.html
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/17/2008 3:53:35 PM
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benelchi
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quote:
Matthew 5:29-32
"If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell." "If your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to go into hell. " "It WAS said, 'Whoever sends his wife away, let him give her a certificate of divorce'; BUT I SAY to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery."
Let's just underline the part of the verse you just want to ignore.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/17/2008 5:49:37 PM
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keepingfaith
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quote:
Let's just underline the part of the verse you just want to ignore.
So what you are saying is that UNLESS I commit adultery against my spouse and they divorce me for that reason...I am not free to remarry without it being adultery? But, if I am innocent and my spouse divorces me I cannot remarry because it will be adultery? That is how that verse reads... if you accept your interpretation that the exception is for adultery.
Please tell me that is not what you are saying. I know that is not what Jesus could have possibly meant...giving the exception to the adulterer and not the innocent party. So we have to commit the sin in order for it not to be the sin we are trying to avoid committing?
What about this part of the verse that you ignore? "whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery."
< Message edited by keepingfaith -- 8/17/2008 6:00:12 PM >
_____________________________
"My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends." John 15:12-13
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/17/2008 6:05:39 PM
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keepingfaith
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quote:
and none of those verses continue on, "verily I say unto you, therefore go and divorce yourselves again....."
His Word doesn't tell those in same sex unions to "divorce" either, and some are getting "married" as we speak...
_____________________________
"My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends." John 15:12-13
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/21/2008 4:44:29 AM
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Butterflytearz
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quote:
Do you know what 'spiritualizing scripture' means; what 'spiritualizing' a passage, or concept or teaching that God clearly sets forth in scripture means?
Yes,, and it is not the flesh that can spiritualize but only the Spirit,, the Holy Spirit.
Now all this about the father having authority to give the daughter and if it is refused no one has the right to marry the daughter is the law of the time. Since we no longer are under the law we are under grace,, that also means we now walk in the spirit.
If the father is an unbeliever and the daughter is a believer ,, Which living father has the right to give the daughter.?
_____________________________
Hebrews 4:11 Let us labor therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/21/2008 5:10:37 PM
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p.progress
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Butterflytearz
quote:
Do you know what 'spiritualizing scripture' means; what 'spiritualizing' a passage, or concept or teaching that God clearly sets forth in scripture means?
Yes,, and it is not the flesh that can spiritualize but only the Spirit,, the Holy Spirit.
Now all this about the father having authority to give the daughter and if it is refused no one has the right to marry the daughter is the law of the time. Since we no longer are under the law we are under grace,, that also means we now walk in the spirit.
If the father is an unbeliever and the daughter is a believer ,, Which living father has the right to give the daughter.?
I'm sorry, I meant were you familiar with the faulty methods of scriptural 'interpretation' called or referred to as 'Spiritualizing' the Scriptures? If not do familiarize yourself with them.
While it is certainly true that only those that have the Spirit of God dwelling in them can understand the things of God, for they are only spiritually discerned; it is also true that the Spirit indwelt person (believer and child of God) can be "deceived" or "led astray" by "the error of the wicked". There are teachers in the professing Ekklesia, that both unknowingly and knowingly corrupt the Word of God and substitute their own "private interpretation" for that of the Scripture's interpretation for that of a word, or phrase, or passage or subject found in the Scriptures (whatever be the true interpretation of these).
So the meaning of the expression "Spiritualizing Scripture" is not understood to mean a good, sound and valid method of interpretation, but a false one.
I asked in reference to your previous post.
Now, regarding your statement above:
quote:
Now all this about the father having authority to give the daughter and if it is refused no one has the right to marry the daughter is the law of the time. Since we no longer are under the law we are under grace,, that also means we now walk in the spirit.
Please do read the book of Genesis....again, and again and again. And please don't get offended at me saying this in an instructive way.
Genesis is what? It is a narrative accounting of the Creation of course, and the creation of man and making of woman. But it is a narrative accounting of the lives and numerous events in the lives of men from Adam on through to the death and mourning of Jacob and Joseph (after when Jacob and his family when down into Egypt, his death and the death of Joseph).
And Butterflytearz, all of this events took place WAY BEFORE 'THE LAW' WAS GIVEN - WAY BEFORE THE 'OLD COVENANT' WAS PUT INTO EFFECT.
So please, let us be clear here when we speak of 'Old Testament' as opposed to the giving and ratification of the Law - that is the 'Old Covenant' in the 'Old Testament'. The book of Genesis is NOT recording the lives of anyone "UNDER" THE "OLD COVENANT" or "TESTAMENT"!
Again, the book of Beginnings records the lives and events in the world and the lives of the people living back then through those many centuries. We read of the 'customs' of those times. But be careful not to read into these narrative accounts, that Genesis is merely recording and reporting what the 'cultures' back then were praticising; rather than being alert to the 'possiblity (I believe 'fact') that Genesis is actually recording that many things you might think and call the customs of their cultures, were in fact founded upon the knowledge of God's WILL and WAYS back then.
This understanding was known back in the beginnings, which then LATER IN THE LAW God revealed in 'black and white' (so to speak), what he will is...his UNCHANGING will is in many areas of human relations and relationships. Again, we know...we can know, that the subjects of substitutional-sacrificing of [clean] animals; and that of even circumcision; and that of the Household of God being limited to that of the family and nation of Israel; and the issues of a human Priestly system (consisting exclusiviely of the men from the tribe of Levi), and all that was otherwise required to "keep" and follow under the 'old covenant' (established at Mt. Sinai) is NOT something we need to concern ourselves with.
The Spirit of God will lead the obedient believer to fulfill the righteous requirements of the LAW.
So now, what of the ICor.7:36-38 passage? Paul wrote it. Is it authoritative or not? What does he speak of therein?
< Message edited by p.progress -- 8/21/2008 5:24:58 PM >
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/22/2008 9:48:21 AM
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Butterflytearz
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quote:
This understanding was known back in the beginnings, which then LATER IN THE LAW God revealed in 'black and white' (so to speak), what he will is...his UNCHANGING will is in many areas of human relations and relationships. Again, we know...we can know, that the subjects of substitutional-sacrificing of [clean] animals; and that of even circumcision; and that of the Household of God being limited to that of the family and nation of Israel; and the issues of a human Priestly system (consisting exclusiviely of the men from the tribe of Levi), and all that was otherwise required to "keep" and follow under the 'old covenant' (established at Mt. Sinai) is NOT something we need to concern ourselves with.
Dear P Progress,
I agree with you here,, we need not concern ourselves about those things because Jesus fulfilled them all on our behalf....
The Law still stands but is kept 100 % by Jesus
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Hebrews 4:11 Let us labor therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/22/2008 4:11:54 PM
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p.progress
Posts: 149
Joined: 12/23/2006
Status: offline
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ORIGINAL: Butterflytearz
Edited: quote:
"This understanding was known back in the beginnings, which then LATER IN THE LAW God revealed in 'black and white' (so to speak), what he will is...his UNCHANGING will is in many areas of human relations and relationships. Again, we know... ...is NOT something we need to concern ourselves with.
Dear P Progress,
I agree with you here,, we need not concern ourselves about those things because Jesus fulfilled them all on our behalf....
The Law still stands but is kept 100 % by Jesus
Yes, Christ certainly "fulfilled" 'THOSE THINGS' that I inumerated IN the specific PORTION you quoted from the above post.
But BFT, I only used THOSE' few factual 'THINGS', for a purpose: To point to another rather obvious fact of Scripture, that while it is certainly true, that these specific aspects in the 'LAW' have ALL been 'fulfilled' in FULL by Christ; and so, they then are NOT AFTERWARDS ever REQUIRED to be practised or 'kept' ANYMORE...NOT by those UNDER the 'New' Covenant, that NOW IS.
YET, there are other aspects to God's WILL and LAW, that have NEVER been and will never be done away with, and which are required TO BE be practised ('kept') by those UNDER the 'New' Covenant that NOW IS. And so to do that which is against them, that is "contrary" to them ("contrary to sound doctrine") is NOT acceptable to God.
Now, if the apostles commanded us to submit to and obey our masters - if we be a slave; to be in subjection to our own husbands - if a woman and (lawfully) married; to be subject to, to honor and to obey our parents - if we have any; and to the wife who deserts ("departs") her husband: to remain unmarried - but rather be reconciled to him; and to the wife - not to "marry another" - even though it was your husband that put you away to "marry another", else you "shall be called [trade named] an adulteress", are we free from these laws, if we "walk in the Spirit"[/ "because Jesus fulfilled them all on our behalf...."? That is the impression your answer, I might argue, could easily appear to be the case.
Read what we are commanded in the letters of the apostles NOT to do: steal no more, lie not, not to bear false witness, not to defraud one another, not to fornicate, not to eat things sacrificed to idols, not to eat blood, or things strangled...etc., etc., etc...AND TO honor our father and mother - which were clearly 'old' testament/covenant commands. Did Christ fulfill all this for us, so that now we are free do these things?
You say in the former post [#9916] this:
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Now all this about the father having authority to give the daughter, and if it is refused, no one has the right to marry the daughter, is the law of the [that] time. Since we no longer are under the law we are under grace,, that also means we now walk in the spirit.
You clearly imply that the laws with regard to the authority and prerogative rights of the father to either "give her in marriage" or NOT to "give her" in marriage, was rescended, dissolved, destroyed...or otherwise NO LONGER required to be thought of as still relevant, LET ALONE to BE 'kept'? Is this not true? You say, because "IS the law of this time" - meaning I suppose that that law, 'WAS the law of THAT time'?
Well, is that not true of all the other laws and commandments that we can find in the 'new' covenant that were first found in the 'old' covenant? Such as the the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th and or through to the 10th commandment in the Decalogue (minus the Sabbath, for sake of argument with some here)?
Does 'walking in the Spirit' mean to you, you're exempt from keeping these laws, thus free to trangress against these Laws, by virtue of your being 'under' the Law of Christ and 'not under the Law'? Have you, we all been granted some kind of immunity from being judged a sinner and transgressor of these Laws - if you do so? Are we free to consider them no longer in force?
The issue of the father's divine authority and prerogative rights with reference to his children, in particular either to "give in marriage" or "keep his virgin" daughter from marriage and utterly refuse to give her in marriage (until what time if any he may be willing to give her), is not right to think that it has been done away with or dissloved...a mere strange and curious relict of the past.
I asked you about the 1Cor. 7:36-38 passages. You have either purposely ignored this, or as I think, it just didn't register too strongly in your mind, because you are not too familiar with this aspect of the Word of God, and thought it not important to address. I wish to hear your interpretation of this section. For I say that if you do choose to study this issue out, you will find that you cannot so easily set it at nought.
The language of the scriptures will guide you to discover that the will of God in this area has not been destroyed and made of non effect. As the traditions of men in this generation of professing Christendom have lead you to believe. Read the scriptures for what they are and what they say. Then let your own notions yield to the presuasive arguments they (the scriptures) present for the continuing of this area of God's will.
Look up the words: daughter, give in - given in [marriage], gave her, give them, take her to wife, took her to wife, virgin, maiden, father's house...these are a few to mention. Once you have done so in a thorough and honest way, you cannot help but see what the will of God is in all this...and the wisdom of God in this principle as well.
The 1Cor.7:36-38 passages are interpreted by some to be referring to the male virgin himself, whether HE is able to keep his own virginity or whether he ought to marry. But the language does not support this nearly as well as the fact | | |
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