Community

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ORIGINAL: tkc300

I am a single mother of three children my husband left me 4 1/2 years ago twice. He was / is on steriods, and now is in a gang. I hate divorce God hates divorce, yes i wish i could have salvaged my marriage and did try, yet I believe God used my divorce to protect me and my children. We live in a enviorment now to which I can teach them right from wrong there is no cussing fighting and no one coming home at 2 am drunk. He commited adultery not just with a high school sweetheart but also with one of my tumbling parents and also one of my employees. I am currently engaged to a wonderful GOD fearing man who is wonderful to my kids and myself. I can only speak for myself when I say this. The scripture is there and I follow what it says and how the spirit directs me, when you have a close relationship with GOD i think you can understand, yet you who are saying this is not allowed how do you know other than what the scripture said! so read it again it said EXCEPT for the one who has commited adultery. Do not judge us whom have been dealt heartache, how do you know the Lord does not hold us close, as I do! God has guided my footsteps and lead me to heal with him through my divorce. Understand no person on the face of this earth wants this to happen yet as demonstrated in romans 8:28 He knows the plans he has for me and as a christian no man can guide me, except through the scripture, which is my job not yours to say I am wrong for wanting a Godly marriage after the first marriage was disolved

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You miss the point. Your many words and proliferate multi-language quotes throughout this thread seemingly profound your words and confuse simple issues to the easily impressed, by obscuring simple truths. The woman so described in the discussed passage in Matthew 5:32 that is deemed to be in adultery upon remarriage after divorce was not one who was divorced because of "pornia," whatever it means.

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God doesn't contradict Himself, and using honest and proper hermeneutics we have to take ALL of God's Word, not just cherry-pick and isolate verses. No statement He makes, makes any other statement untrue. We can strain out a gnat and swallow a camel to make the Bible say anything we want it to say. Paul and Jesus taught a clear and consistent message, and any doctrine allowing for remarriage makes them contradict each other as well as themselves.

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(Quote Gmcspice) "Keeping, WHY do you look at the verse from Luke BUT not the verse from
Matthew?

Matt. 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery

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How can anyone or any other Scripture Divide (Divorce a Marriage) that which God has made ONE FLESH?

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herestoresmysoul Date 11/27/2009 12:14:35 AM
I think there is far more to this above post than meets the eye.A lot that we havent been told.

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ORIGINAL: gmcspice

By the way, Huck, except for the fact that our body is the temple of the Lord, when is God really interested in anything that is flesh when he say that the flesh profits nothing?
He even said if we can control our flesh for us not to even be married because we would be more worried about what our spouse wants than pleasing God.
Even when people are married, they must still put God first.
And our relationships should not be just about flesh. They are about the Spirit of God and God is love! God created marriage to temper fleshly lusts and as an earthly example of the Spiritual relationship we should have with him.
As two become one in flesh when married, so should we become one with God in the Spirit. So was God really talking just about the flesh becoming one in marriage? Nope, he was addressing something far deeper and complex. And no, I am not saying the only reason God created marriage is to prevent fornication because it isn't but it is supposed to help.
I am not telling people not to get married. I am not telling people to divorce. I am telling people it is between them and God.
God has called us to peace and since we are in Christ we no longer should even bare any burdens. Jesus yoke is easy and his burdens are light.
And if you think anything we do can fix a situation like divorce and remarriage, you are sadly mistaken. God can fix anything that is wrong in our lives. He can correct any problem that needs fixing. We certainly can't fix ourselves.
To place a burden on our fellow Christians because of their tainted past is not only wrong but it is showing lack of faith in God by saying that knowingly or unknowingly God can't fix everything and God doesn't forgive everything. The Bible is very clear on the fact that God there is no sin too big for God to forgive. No mistake that he can fix and make right.
Remember that love is kind, patient, long-suffering and does not judge.

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ORIGINAL: MrsTracy72

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ORIGINAL: gmcspice

By the way, Huck, except for the fact that our body is the temple of the Lord, when is God really interested in anything that is flesh when he say that the flesh profits nothing?
He even said if we can control our flesh for us not to even be married because we would be more worried about what our spouse wants than pleasing God.
Even when people are married, they must still put God first.
And our relationships should not be just about flesh. They are about the Spirit of God and God is love! God created marriage to temper fleshly lusts and as an earthly example of the Spiritual relationship we should have with him.
As two become one in flesh when married, so should we become one with God in the Spirit. So was God really talking just about the flesh becoming one in marriage? Nope, he was addressing something far deeper and complex. And no, I am not saying the only reason God created marriage is to prevent fornication because it isn't but it is supposed to help.
I am not telling people not to get married. I am not telling people to divorce. I am telling people it is between them and God.
God has called us to peace and since we are in Christ we no longer should even bare any burdens. Jesus yoke is easy and his burdens are light.
And if you think anything we do can fix a situation like divorce and remarriage, you are sadly mistaken. God can fix anything that is wrong in our lives. He can correct any problem that needs fixing. We certainly can't fix ourselves.
To place a burden on our fellow Christians because of their tainted past is not only wrong but it is showing lack of faith in God by saying that knowingly or unknowingly God can't fix everything and God doesn't forgive everything. The Bible is very clear on the fact that God there is no sin too big for God to forgive. No mistake that he can fix and make right.
Remember that love is kind, patient, long-suffering and does not judge.

I am going to just past what she said because I think it is very well stated. We shouldn't even be having this debate because it is judging either way and only God has the authority to do that. Not us. It is not up to us to say what is and isn't wrong for other people since we don't know their circumstances. They could have been married but not in a Christian sense and divorced and remarried as Christians. The bible doesn't really talk about that. But what makes a marriage a marriage in God's eyes? Is it sex? Does God bless the marriages of unbelievers? Does God bless marriages that are entered into when the marriage was based on false pretenses? We will only know the answers to those questions on the day of our judgement.

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(Quote Benelchi) And to answer Huckfinn's question.

The Bible says that "What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder", it does not say that "What therefore God hath joined together, man cannot put asunder"; the latter is a heretical interpretation of this statement made by Jesus. When a man (or woman) chooses to sin in a way that breaks the marriage covenant they are sinning. The bible is clear that some sinful choices can and do break the marriage covenant and divorce always is the result of at least one spouse's sinful choices. However, this verse no more declares that a man cannot divorce than the command "Thou shall not kill" declares that a man cannot commit murder. If a man chooses to commit murder, he is sinning; however, God still permits men to make those sinful choices.

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Jesus said, "What therefore God hat joined together, let not man put asunder." His words "put asunder" have a direct reference to the Pharisees offering, "Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife?" Lawful a reference to Deut. 24:1 where Moses writes the words: "then LET him write her a bill of divorcement". The words LET HIM cannot be concluded to mean THOU SHALT regarding divorce. The only "THOU SHALT" in Deut. 24:1-4 dealt with a particular "Remarriage" after divorce. As Jesus and the Pharisees agreed ... Moses' words were only "permissive" (Let him) because of the HARDNESS of the heart of man in the dispensation of the LAW.

Jesus answer to the Pharisees was that if a husband was insulted to the point of "finding no favor in his wife" because of an "some uncleanness in the wife" then Moses offered a PERMISSION to divorce. The CONTEXT of Jesus words LET NOT man put asunder are a direct answer to the Pharisees question regarding Deut. 24:1 "Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife?" When Jesus said LET NOT he "abrogated" the Deut. 24:1 permission forever. Therefore Jusus' answer was NO to the question: "Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife?" NO IT IS NOT LAWFUL.

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ORIGINAL: huckfinn327

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(Quote Benelchi) And to answer Huckfinn's question.

The Bible says that "What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder", it does not say that "What therefore God hath joined together, man cannot put asunder"; the latter is a heretical interpretation of this statement made by Jesus. When a man (or woman) chooses to sin in a way that breaks the marriage covenant they are sinning. The bible is clear that some sinful choices can and do break the marriage covenant and divorce always is the result of at least one spouse's sinful choices. However, this verse no more declares that a man cannot divorce than the command "Thou shall not kill" declares that a man cannot commit murder. If a man chooses to commit murder, he is sinning; however, God still permits men to make those sinful choices.

Greetings Benelchi,

Jesus said, "What therefore God hat joined together, let not man put asunder." His words "put asunder" have a direct reference to the Pharisees offering, "Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife?" Lawful a reference to Deut. 24:1 where Moses writes the words: "then LET him write her a bill of divorcement". The words LET HIM cannot be concluded to mean THOU SHALT regarding divorce. The only "THOU SHALT" in Deut. 24:1-4 dealt with a particular "Remarriage" after divorce. As Jesus and the Pharisees agreed ... Moses' words were only "permissive" (Let him) because of the HARDNESS of the heart of man in the dispensation of the LAW.

Jesus answer to the Pharisees was that if a husband was insulted to the point of "finding no favor in his wife" because of an "some uncleanness in the wife" then Moses offered a PERMISSION to divorce. The CONTEXT of Jesus words LET NOT man put asunder are a direct answer to the Pharisees question regarding Deut. 24:1 "Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife?" When Jesus said LET NOT he "abrogated" the Deut. 24:1 permission forever. Therefore Jusus' answer was NO to the question: "Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife?" NO IT IS NOT LAWFUL.

Jesus has the same answer to the question: "Is it lawful to kill i.e. commit murder?" ... Jesus' answer would be the same: "NO" it is not lawful to kill a man.

The "context" of the divorce pericope deals with CANNOT lawfully divorce. You have a bend on sliding away from the direct truth of the CONTEXT. Can a man lawfully kill, i.e. commit murder? NO ... Can a man lawfully divorce his wife? NO.

All for His Glory ... huckfinn

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ORIGINAL: benelchi

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ORIGINAL: huckfinn327

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(Quote Benelchi) And to answer Huckfinn's question.

The Bible says that "What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder", it does not say that "What therefore God hath joined together, man cannot put asunder"; the latter is a heretical interpretation of this statement made by Jesus. When a man (or woman) chooses to sin in a way that breaks the marriage covenant they are sinning. The bible is clear that some sinful choices can and do break the marriage covenant and divorce always is the result of at least one spouse's sinful choices. However, this verse no more declares that a man cannot divorce than the command "Thou shall not kill" declares that a man cannot commit murder. If a man chooses to commit murder, he is sinning; however, God still permits men to make those sinful choices.

Greetings Benelchi,

Jesus said, "What therefore God hat joined together, let not man put asunder." His words "put asunder" have a direct reference to the Pharisees offering, "Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife?" Lawful a reference to Deut. 24:1 where Moses writes the words: "then LET him write her a bill of divorcement". The words LET HIM cannot be concluded to mean THOU SHALT regarding divorce. The only "THOU SHALT" in Deut. 24:1-4 dealt with a particular "Remarriage" after divorce. As Jesus and the Pharisees agreed ... Moses' words were only "permissive" (Let him) because of the HARDNESS of the heart of man in the dispensation of the LAW.

Jesus answer to the Pharisees was that if a husband was insulted to the point of "finding no favor in his wife" because of an "some uncleanness in the wife" then Moses offered a PERMISSION to divorce. The CONTEXT of Jesus words LET NOT man put asunder are a direct answer to the Pharisees question regarding Deut. 24:1 "Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife?" When Jesus said LET NOT he "abrogated" the Deut. 24:1 permission forever. Therefore Jusus' answer was NO to the question: "Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife?" NO IT IS NOT LAWFUL.

Jesus has the same answer to the question: "Is it lawful to kill i.e. commit murder?" ... Jesus' answer would be the same: "NO" it is not lawful to kill a man.

The "context" of the divorce pericope deals with CANNOT lawfully divorce. You have a bend on sliding away from the direct truth of the CONTEXT. Can a man lawfully kill, i.e. commit murder? NO ... Can a man lawfully divorce his wife? NO.

All for His Glory ... huckfinn

1) Again, I think that most Christians understand that divorce involves always reflects an unlawful act by at least one spouse. However, the MDR people continually refer to the verse you quoted to proved that one CANNOT break that law i.e. the claim is continually (and falsely) made that one cannot break this law i.e. that even if a couple divorces, they are still really married; while this verse does support the idea that divorce is always the result of a sinful action, it does not support the idea that divorce is impossible.


2) While scripture is clear that divorce always involves the sinful act of at least one spouse, it does not state that every spouse involved in a divorce is choosing to sin. Jesus himself gave us examples where the sinful act of adultery broke the marriage covenant (Mt. 5 and 19); the law breaker in this case was the spouse that chose adultery and not necessarily the spouse who chose to divorce their unfaithful partner. Paul further gives us the example where a unbelieving spouse chooses to divorce their believing partner, and in this case the one guilty of breaking the law is the unbelieving spouse. The bible is clear that simply being divorced is not sinful, but rather the sin comes from participating in the sinful choices that lead to divorce.

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ORIGINAL: loveydoveysmom

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I don't think there is a legitimate reason for divorce outside of sexual infidelity and I think that even in those cases the only acceptable option for the person is to either be restored to their spouse or to remain single.

This part

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ORIGINAL: keepingfaith

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You miss the point. Your many words and proliferate multi-language quotes throughout this thread seemingly profound your words and confuse simple issues to the easily impressed, by obscuring simple truths. The woman so described in the discussed passage in Matthew 5:32 that is deemed to be in adultery upon remarriage after divorce was not one who was divorced because of "pornia," whatever it means.

Now I understand why Jesus said, "Praise you Father, that you've hidden these things from the wise and intelligent, and have revealed them to babes." and scripture speaks of those who are "ever-learning, but never coming to knowledge of the truth."

Luke 16:18
"EVERYONE who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery."

Pretty simple huh?

God doesn't contradict Himself, and using honest and proper hermeneutics we have to take ALL of God's Word, not just cherry-pick and isolate verses. No statement He makes, makes any other statement untrue. We can strain out a gnat and swallow a camel to make the Bible say anything we want it to say. Paul and Jesus taught a clear and consistent message, and any doctrine allowing for remarriage makes them contradict each other as well as themselves.

These statements are unconditionally true, just as Luke 16:18 is.

1cor7:39
A wife is bound as long as her husband lives; but if her husband is dead, she is free to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord.

Romans 7:2-3
"For the married woman is bound by law to her husband while he is living; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law concerning the husband. 3So then, if while her husband is living she is joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress though she is joined to another man."

Pretty straight forward. As long as our first covenant spouse is still breathing, we are still bound (married) to them.

2 Tim 4:2-4
"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths."

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ORIGINAL: huckfinn327

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(Quote Gmcspice) "Keeping, WHY do you look at the verse from Luke BUT not the verse from
Matthew?

Matt. 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery