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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 12/1/2005 3:33:47 PM
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lastblast
Posts: 1599
Joined: 9/20/2005
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quote:
We err when we lean on our own understanding and fail to take the words of Jesus and Paul in context.
On that we agree............... 
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 12/1/2005 3:36:07 PM
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Expos4ever
Posts: 23
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Hello Neuronstatic:
Is it fair to assume that you consider divorce for immorality and divorce for abandonment by an unbeliever as the only divorces that are not considered sinful by God? Are there not other cases?
Lets pick an absurd example. Suppose Fred is mentally disoriented because of some prescription drugs he is taking. Fred has a longtime girlfriend Sally and they are both planning on marriage to each other. However, Fred meets Jane at a party, and because his judgment is severely clouded, Fred does something incredibly dumb - He takes Jane to Vegas and they get married. Next day, he realizes the foolishness of his actions. Is Fred "stuck" by application of Jesus' teaching on divorce? Is Sally's happiness to be taken away by this drug-induced lapse of judgement?
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 12/1/2005 3:42:40 PM
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Fritzpw_Admin
Posts: 7663
Joined: 2/28/2005
From: New Jersey
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I assure you I have full control over my faculties and am no way under a drug induced state of mentalness.
I'm always this way.
Fred
Community Manager
Salem Web Network
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 12/1/2005 3:46:06 PM
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scmom2
Posts: 5
Joined: 11/11/2005
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I am the second wife to my husband, and he is my first and hopefully only husband.
The reason he divorced was do to his first wife's infidelity. She ran around, became pregnant for her lover, and left my husband.
My husband was divorced when we met and we have both repented for any wrong doing that we may have done in our process of getting married.
Hopefully because of his situation, he was forgiven for divorcing his wife.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 12/1/2005 3:49:53 PM
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Keabird
Posts: 694
Joined: 4/11/2005
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LOL Fred!
Expos, what about Jane? She was part of that absurd marriage. Had she lost control of her faculties too? Or had she secretly been planning this for a long time, just waiting for Fred to come to a party in that state? She must have attended a lot of parties in order to make sure she was there when it happened! Why was Fred in the habit of frequenting parties anyway, if he lived according to the Bible?
In that instance, I would say Sally was probably saved from a potentially devastating marriage.
Sherri
_____________________________
"The thief comes to kill, steal and destroy, but I have come that you may have life and have it abundantly." John 10:10
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 12/1/2005 3:57:40 PM
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Fritzpw_Admin
Posts: 7663
Joined: 2/28/2005
From: New Jersey
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Keabird
LOL Fred!
Expos, what about Jane? She was part of that absurd marriage. Had she lost control of her faculties too? Or had she secretly been planning this for a long time, just waiting for Fred to come to a party in that state? She must have attended a lot of parties in order to make sure she was there when it happened! Why was Fred in the habit of frequenting parties anyway, if he lived according to the Bible?
In that instance, I would say Sally was probably saved from a potentially devastating marriage.
Sherri
And now EmmaBelle is stuck with me.
Sorry darling.
*Offers EmmaBelle a cookie*
Fred
Community Manager
Salem Web Network
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 12/1/2005 3:59:25 PM
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Expos4ever
Posts: 23
Joined: 11/23/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Keabird
LOL Fred!
Expos, what about Jane? She was part of that absurd marriage. Had she lost control of her faculties too? Or had she secretly been planning this for a long time, just waiting for Fred to come to a party in that state? She must have attended a lot of parties in order to make sure she was there when it happened! Why was Fred in the habit of frequenting parties anyway, if he lived according to the Bible?
In that instance, I would say Sally was probably saved from a potentially devastating marriage.
Sherri
Good point about Jane. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that Jane is just looking for any guy to marry. Let's say Fred is your dear brother, a generally upright Christian man, who still makes this "mistake" - he is not a "partier". Does this change your view at all
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 12/1/2005 4:00:06 PM
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lastblast
Posts: 1599
Joined: 9/20/2005
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quote:
As for the "burning" argument you present, I have a question. Why is this a problem if it is granted as a legitimate cause for marriage in the scriptures?
I dont' have a problem with it. I completely agree that if one "burns" and they are rightfully allowed to marry, God allows marriage. Matter of fact, God MADE marriage---for one man/one woman, for life. As I said, going outside the parameters God laid out to take care of "burning flesh"........I just can't see where God honors that. In Him, Cindy
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 12/1/2005 4:01:04 PM
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Expos4ever
Posts: 23
Joined: 11/23/2005
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Greetings Fred:
Man, am I ever glad your wife's name is not Jane......
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 12/1/2005 4:05:07 PM
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lastblast
Posts: 1599
Joined: 9/20/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tyrubonchi
Can I just bud in and say something?
No matter what any of us does, whether we believe it is right or wrong, the only thing that matters is that God loves us no matter what! God would never turn away from his children because of divorce or remarriage.
Okay, I'm done.
Yes, Tyrubonchi,
God does love His children with a love we cannot comprehend. However, the NT has MUCH to say about adultery, words which we should not ignore..........Paul spoke this truth to BELIEVERS----not to be decieved: adulterers will not inherit the kingdom of God. Wouldn't it behoove us to understand what Paul meant and who he was speaking about? In Him, Cindy
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 12/1/2005 4:06:22 PM
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lovenHim
Posts: 4
Joined: 11/21/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tyrubonchi
Can I just bud in and say something?
No matter what any of us does, whether we believe it is right or wrong, the only thing that matters is that God loves us no matter what! God would never turn away from his children because of divorce or remarriage.
Okay, I'm done.
Not so...
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, not homosexuals, nor theives, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the Kingdom of God. 1 Cor. 6:9-10
Has the lord as much delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to heed than the fat of rams. 1 Samuel 15:22
He who has my commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and disclose Myself to him. He who does not love me does not keep My words... John 14:23-24a
By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. The one who says: "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar. 1 John 2:4-5.
Lovenhim
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 12/1/2005 4:21:50 PM
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neuronstatic
Posts: 948
Joined: 7/14/2005
From: North Carolina!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Expos4ever
Hello Neuronstatic:
Is it fair to assume that you consider divorce for immorality and divorce for abandonment by an unbeliever as the only divorces that are not considered sinful by God? Are there not other cases?
Lets pick an absurd example. Suppose Fred is mentally disoriented because of some prescription drugs he is taking. Fred has a longtime girlfriend Sally and they are both planning on marriage to each other. However, Fred meets Jane at a party, and because his judgment is severely clouded, Fred does something incredibly dumb - He takes Jane to Vegas and they get married. Next day, he realizes the foolishness of his actions. Is Fred "stuck" by application of Jesus' teaching on divorce? Is Sally's happiness to be taken away by this drug-induced lapse of judgement?
I don't hold a legalist position. I think God understands we are all idiots at times. So I would just say it really only matters what was in Fred's heart as a result. I think it is clear from scripture that compassion supercedes sacrifice.
_____________________________
Click here for an example of God blessing a man with a second chance at marriage in a new wife.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 12/1/2005 4:22:50 PM
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Expos4ever
Posts: 23
Joined: 11/23/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lovenHim
Not so...
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, not homosexuals, nor theives, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the Kingdom of God. 1 Cor. 6:9-10
Has the lord as much delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to heed than the fat of rams. 1 Samuel 15:22
He who has my commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and disclose Myself to him. He who does not love me does not keep My words... John 14:23-24a
By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. The one who says: "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar. 1 John 2:4-5.
Lovenhim
I understand where you are coming from, but the above verses effectively imply that almost no one will be in the Kingdom. Divorce and remarriage are easy to "pick on" because they are such formalized and well-defined acts. The 1 Corinthians text also states that idolaters will not inherit the Kingdom. What makes a person an idolater? What makes a person "covetous"? What makes a person a "reviler"?
I submit that almost all of us will piously claim that we are none of these. However, the reason we can get away with such a claim is that these terms are so vague. But they clearly mean something and we will conveniently not follow that thought up - lest the shoe turns out to fit us. I submit that many of us who think otherwise are actually in the same boat as the d/r person. Its just that d/r is so easily recognizable whereas a "covetous" person is not. However, the "recognizabilitly" of the sin by man is not the issue, it is what God knows that counts.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 12/1/2005 4:24:54 PM
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neuronstatic
Posts: 948
Joined: 7/14/2005
From: North Carolina!
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Keabird
LOL Fred!
Expos, what about Jane? She was part of that absurd marriage. Had she lost control of her faculties too? Or had she secretly been planning this for a long time, just waiting for Fred to come to a party in that state? She must have attended a lot of parties in order to make sure she was there when it happened! Why was Fred in the habit of frequenting parties anyway, if he lived according to the Bible?
In that instance, I would say Sally was probably saved from a potentially devastating marriage.
Sherri
Ah, Jane may be a different matter, if she knowingly and willingly did something stupid, maybe she should have to pay for the legal process 
But again, I hold no such legalist position. Only God knows her heart and her repentance.
The bigger question and harder one is what if Jane is perfectly happy with Fred?
See, this is where the details get hard. This is why there are regulative principles but exceptions, and at all times, mercy must be applied. No one said it is always easy. I would not have to want to sort out Fred and Jane.
_____________________________
Click here for an example of God blessing a man with a second chance at marriage in a new wife.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 12/1/2005 4:28:29 PM
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neuronstatic
Posts: 948
Joined: 7/14/2005
From: North Carolina!
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lastblast
quote:
As for the "burning" argument you present, I have a question. Why is this a problem if it is granted as a legitimate cause for marriage in the scriptures?
I dont' have a problem with it. I completely agree that if one "burns" and they are rightfully allowed to marry, God allows marriage. Matter of fact, God MADE marriage---for one man/one woman, for life. As I said, going outside the parameters God laid out to take care of "burning flesh"........I just can't see where God honors that. In Him, Cindy
Marrying is not outside the parameters of God. Once the couple were divorced, and sins repented individually, they are at their own due times free to marry. Hence, they are keeping the fire in the proper fireplace. Your position however asserts that they cannot marry therefore they are stuck. But since divorce dissolves the marriage, you are incorrect in that assertion.
_____________________________
Click here for an example of God blessing a man with a second chance at marriage in a new wife.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 12/1/2005 4:32:34 PM
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neuronstatic
Posts: 948
Joined: 7/14/2005
From: North Carolina!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lovenHim
quote:
ORIGINAL: tyrubonchi
Can I just bud in and say something?
No matter what any of us does, whether we believe it is right or wrong, the only thing that matters is that God loves us no matter what! God would never turn away from his children because of divorce or remarriage.
Okay, I'm done.
Not so...
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, not homosexuals, nor theives, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the Kingdom of God. 1 Cor. 6:9-10
Has the lord as much delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to heed than the fat of rams. 1 Samuel 15:22
He who has my commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and disclose Myself to him. He who does not love me does not keep My words... John 14:23-24a
By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. The one who says: "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar. 1 John 2:4-5.
Lovenhim
Yes lovenHim, in general you are correct. And as long as we repent, we are forgiven. But divorce is not a sin. Sin may lead to divorce, but it doesn't have to. The immoral person who caused the divorce must repent of that sin.
So if you are in a state of sin, you must repent. If you are divorced and were the innocent spouse, you have no sin in that matter.
_____________________________
Click here for an example of God blessing a man with a second chance at marriage in a new wife.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 12/1/2005 4:49:26 PM
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lovenHim
Posts: 4
Joined: 11/21/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Expos4ever
quote:
ORIGINAL: lovenHim
Not so...
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, not homosexuals, nor theives, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the Kingdom of God. 1 Cor. 6:9-10
Has the lord as much delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to heed than the fat of rams. 1 Samuel 15:22
He who has my commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and disclose Myself to him. He who does not love me does not keep My words... John 14:23-24a
By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. The one who says: "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar. 1 John 2:4-5.
Lovenhim
I understand where you are coming from, but the above verses effectively imply that almost no one will be in the Kingdom. Divorce and remarriage are easy to "pick on" because they are such formalized and well-defined acts. The 1 Corinthians text also states that idolaters will not inherit the Kingdom. What makes a person an idolater? What makes a person "covetous"? What makes a person a "reviler"?
I submit that almost all of us will piously claim that we are none of these. However, the reason we can get away with such a claim is that these terms are so vague. But they clearly mean something and we will conveniently not follow that thought up - lest the shoe turns out to fit us. I submit that many of us who think otherwise are actually in the same boat as the d/r person. Its just that d/r is so easily recognizable whereas a "covetous" person is not. However, the "recognizabilitly" of the sin by man is not the issue, it is what God knows that counts.
I disagree entirely. I think we know what each term means, and if not we had better find out in a hurry. There is nothing grey about any of these things, not is there anything vague about the penalty for living these lifestyles - If you do them, you will surely die...and if you know Him and love Him with all your heart, you will not live that way.
LovenHim
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 12/1/2005 5:03:31 PM
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Expos4ever
Posts: 23
Joined: 11/23/2005
Status: offline
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Greetings LovenHim:
The mods may well determine that this is a tangent, and if so, I will accept their redirect. I do think it is relevant insofar as it speaks to an issue of consistency in application of Biblical principles.
Who is an idolater? I understand that an idolater is someone who values someone or something more than God in Jesus. I think that a very fair case can be made that any western christian with an SUV, or a pool table, or a diamond ring is an idolater precisely because they effectively place a love for material things above Jesus' clear call to help "the least of these" - the money used on these things can literally mean the difference between life and death for someone else. We will play a game with ourselves that an idolater is one who worships "some other god with a name and a face", and yet not realize that our wealth-drenched lifestyle suggests that we indeed do worship another god, just not one with a face.
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