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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread

 
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 9/17/2007 12:56:11 AM   
prophet_india


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jk99

Help me out here.

I need your input and Bible verses to support a discussion with a young man next week in which today I had a conversation with in prison. I have a fairly good stand of scripture from my understanding and point of view but would really like some sincere and honest discussion on this topic. I certainly all ways appreciate words from other wise commentators.

A man in prison asked me if under this situation he would be removed from G**’S blessing. However, I am more interested how this situation relates to this mans Christian walk.

He was recently incrassated, recently meaning last year I assume? He is married but his present wife has chosen not to respond to him any more. During the last 2 months she has not return any of his correspondence and it sounds like she has completely settled on removing herself from him.

It sounds like she has conveyed an attitude of contempt and has openly accused this man as a loser or low life, to me it might appear that she is disgusted or resentful he is currently prison, I can understand her point of view, I am sure she is slightly ashamed of the circumstance. It is my understanding he is unaware if she has been unfaithful to him, in the context of another man however, it appeared from this young man’s discussion he thinks or might suspect so, nothing is proven as of yet I will have to conclude from our conversation the facts are this.

1) His wife doesn’t want to have anything to do with.
2) It sounds like divorce is immanent.
3) He has become a Christian and she is not a Christian.
4) They were not Christians when they first married.

His question to me is, how does this apply in his walk and would G** remove His blessing from him.

What are your thoughts on this situation and how would you advise this young man. What disqualifications apply to him?

Belated thanks


You have mentioned that it is his present wife. Does his first wife live?
Since he is a believer and his wife is an unbeliever, she being an unbeliever can depart. But this brother who is in prison is not supposed to remarry. You can visit the other thread "Remarriage after divorce One stop thread" to know about divorce and remarriage.

_____________________________

Wait on the Lord patiently for restoration of marriage. If you believe Him for restoration, God will make a way for you in the wilderness.


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Post #: 801
RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 11/23/2007 10:33:20 PM   
TMeeks

 

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Perhaps this thread provides a demonstration of why God hates divorce... because it only comes about when two people fail to see that the reason for their being together is to bless each other in Jesus Christ.

I couldn't help being reminded of couples bickering and trying to assert their 'rightness' over each other as I read some of the responses here. All so technical. All so impeccably 'right'. But, not so lovingly discussed. Not everyone. But, enough to notice.

Divorce may be technical. It may be precisely laid out in minute theological detail. But, underneath it all is one simple truth. One or both of the parties have failed to fully appreciate WHY God instituted and blessed marriage and why they, in particular, are meant to be a blessing to each other. Self has won when the marriage reaches the stage where divorce is even discussed.

But, God was disappointed with that couple LONG before divorce was on the table. It's just an artifact of disobedience on a wider scale.

Writing a line in the sand at NO DIVORCE and focusing on that fails to address the heart problems that brought people to that situation in the first place. Would any husband be violent toward his wife if his greatest goal is to be a blessing to her in the fullest sense of Christ's love? No. Would a spouse even CONTEMPLATE adultery if they fully appreciated that God wanted them to be His representative in blessing their partner? No.

While we need to focus on the TRUTH of God's Word concerning marriage, that truth is wider and deeper than some might allot to it.

_____________________________

Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
Post #: 802
RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 12/15/2007 5:52:07 PM   
jenny61

 

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I really don't believe God is going to send me to hell because I married someone who was divorced. I had nothing to do with thier divorce and didn't even know him at the time. Iam proud to say we spent almost 38 years together before he passed awayin april. I have been a christain about 18 years and I thank God for His Love mercy.
Post #: 803
RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 12/16/2007 10:49:56 AM   
YoelNatan


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GOD DOSN'T ALLOW REMARRIAGE FOR ANY REASON


At some point in your life you’ve probably come across the question that is often asked: can I divorce my husband or wife if they commit adultery?



Most people will tell you “yes” based on the following Bible verses:


Mat 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.



Mat 19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.






Definition

We know from studying the Bible that we can’t just superficially look at a verse and come to a conclusion. The golden rule in studying and interpreting the Bible is that we compare spiritual things with spiritual (I Corinthians 2:13). This basically means that we have to take into account everything the Bible has to offer on the subject before we can come to a God glorifying conclusion.






Except for



This word is the Greek word “ei me” and it’s found 85 times in the New Testament in 81 verses. It’s translated mostly “but” or “save” which appears to mean exactly what it says. For example we read in Matthew 11:27 (The highlighted words being the word “ei me”):


All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.



Another example is found in Matthew 12:24


But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.



Sometimes this word is translated “more than” or “till”, but for the most part it’s translated “but” or “save” as mentioned above.






Saving for



This word found in Matthew 5:32 is not the same word as the one found in Matthew 19:9, even though the context is the same. The word “saving for” is the Greek word “parektos” and it’s only found in two other places in the New Testament.


Paul, after his conversion, is speaking to King Agrippa. The King, responding to the words of Paul after Paul’s vision of the Lord Jesus, says… “Act 26:28 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.” Paul then responds in the following manner:



Act 26:29 And Paul said, I would to God, that not only thou, but also all that hear me this day, were both almost, and altogether such as I am, except these bonds.



The word “except” is the same word “parektos” found in Matthew 19:9. Here it is clear that it’s not talking about “except” as we defined it earlier. It appears here that this word can also be translated “for” these bonds. The “bonds” here must be referring to his bondservant relationship to Christ. A quick search of that word “bonds” seems to be in harmony with how it is viewed in this context.


Therefore it may be safe to assume that Paul is telling King Agrippa that he wishes that all men would be a part of this bondservant relationship to Christ that he is a part of.


Without

The next passage appears to be a little harder to understand because of the way it’s translated, but it is the same Greek word “parektos” we’re looking at. In his second letter to the Church at Corinth, the Apostle Paul is describing all the perils he has had to endure in his journey for Christ. We read the following verses:


2Co 11:25 Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep;



2Co 11:26 In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren;



2Co 11:27 In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness.



2Co 11:28 Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches.



The word “without” is the same Greek word “parektos.” Here it appears that it could also be translated “in addition to” (beside those things that are in addition to that which I have to endure daily, is the care of all the churches.)



You have to agree that the passage almost does not make sense and it probably has to do with the translation. I can’t be 100% certain of the meaning as I’ve outlined it here, but given the context and some other information we will look at, it appears that we might be on the right track. If you can find an alternate meaning to this passage or you have additional information, please feel free to share your view so that we can all learn together.






The Dialog of Matthew 19:9

Let’s go back now to Matthew 19 again to look at the word “except for” in a more expanded context. The setting is that the Pharisees are trying to test Jesus on this subject. We read the following verses:


Mat 19:3 The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?



We would understand “for every cause” here to mean for any reason whatsoever. The word “cause” is sometimes translated “fault or accusation”.


Mat 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,



Mat 19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh



Mat 19:6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.



In other words, when God created the human race, the original intent was for a man and woman to come together get married and the two would become one flesh (Genesis 2:23 and 24).


Mat 19:7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away,



Knowing the law of the Old Testament, the Pharisees asked the right question which they picked up from Deuteronomy 24:1. That law said that if a man (emphasis on man – a woman could not find this type of uncleanness in her husband) found some uncleanness in his wife, then he could write her a bill of divorcement and put her away. The word “uncleanness” is the Hebrew word “ervah” and is found 40 times in the Old Testament. It is translated mostly “nakedness” and sometimes “shame.” In most cases it appears to be saying that even if the woman had her monthly period then she is unclean and the husband could put her away, if he wanted to.


From a spiritual standpoint, the nakedness refers to the uncleanness of sin. That is to be spiritually naked before God for ANY sin whatsoever.


Mat 19:8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts, suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.



Here again is the proof text: the Lord Jesus appears to be saying here that the only reason God instituted this command in the Old Testament was because Israel was being pictured as “the woman” and the “man” as God himself. As we read the Bible we come to realize that God was spiritually married to the nation of Israel (Jeremiah 3:14) among other places.


Because God obeys his own laws that we find in the Bible, it was God’s plan to divorce the nation of Israel. Therefore God set up the stage knowing full well he would find a great deal of uncleanness in the nation of Israel and therefore would have the legal right, based on Deuteronomy 24:1 to write her (Israel) a bill of divorcement and to put her away: (Isa 50:1 Thus saith the LORD, Where is the bill of your mother's divorcement, whom I have put away? or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, and for your transgressions is your mother put away.)



So the “hardness of Israel’s heart” is pointing to the fact that this nation would repeatedly rebel against God. We have seen this both in the Bible and what we see today as the majority of the people of that nation is still in opposition to the Lord Jesus Christ.


Mat 19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever, shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.



Given the information we’ve just covered, we can now understand the word “except it be for fornication” in this verse. Jesus already covered the fact that in the beginning it was not so. He told the Pharisees that due to the hardness of their hearts that commandment was given in Deuteronomy 24:1. We understand from the rest of the Bible that God had a larger picture in view from a spiritual standpoint.



We now come to understand that the word “except” cannot be establishing an exception. Rather, as we have seen from the way that word is used in other parts of the Bible, we have to conclude that in this context, this word means “in addition to” what Christ has already explained. Jesus is covering any and every possible reason for divorce. What he’s really saying is whosoever shall divorce his wife for any reason other than or in addition to fornication (which he’s already covered) commits adultery.



Mat 19:10 His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good, to marry.



Now notice who it is that understands what Jesus is saying: the disciples (not the Pharisees) this is why they respond as they do. They are saying well in this case it’s not a good idea to get married. If we can’t put her away for any reason, including fornication, then what’s the use? That’s basically what they’re saying.



Mat 19:11 But he said unto them, All men cannot receive, this saying, save they to whom it is given.



Now the Lord comes with a Biblical principle: Only those whom God has appointed to salvation will understand and accept this saying because the true believers will have a real desire to be obedient to all that the Bible declares.






As long as he liveth

We now can look at a few other passages that will seal this conclusion we’ve come to:


Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?



Rom 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.



Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.



1Co 7:10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:



1Co 7:11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.



As we read through these passages, we understand that we have in fact come to the right conclusion concerning this idea of divorce for fornication. The Bible is telling us that there cannot be divorce for any reason. The wife is bound to the husband as long as he lives. If the wife is bound to the husband and we know that the husband is also bound to the wife for life. Only death can break this union, not some uncleanness, as this was temporarily the case in the Old Testament.




God is married to the true believers

This, of course is good news for the elect (true believers) of God. We are the bride of Christ:


Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

GOD DOSN'T ALLOW REMARRIAGE FOR ANY REASON

If we are married to Christ, this means that God himself cannot divorce us for any reason either. Every time we sin, it is spiritual adultery or uncleanness before God. Yet we know from the Bible that God does not allow divorce for any reason. This means the true believers are forever safe in the arms of God and will spend eternity in Heaven with him. Only death can break that union and we know that in Heaven death will be no more. There is no suffering or sorrow.

_____________________________

Let my people think
Post #: 804
RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 12/17/2007 1:07:27 PM   
Fritzpw_Admin


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ADMIN'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE

To everyone,

I want to be very clear about something.

The purpose of this thread is to dicuss the TOPIC of Divorce.

It is NOT for the purpose of discussing YOUR divorce.

I have found that people who post with statements like, "so because I divorced my spouse I am now forever a sinner and never to be forgiven?" are opening themselves up to being hurt or hurting someone else.

If you are not able to participate in this topic without discussing the experience of YOUR divorce then I must request that you stay out of the thread.

Posts which ignore this warning will be removed without warning and may result in other action in accordance with the Terms of Service.

Thank you for your attention, understanding, and cooperation.

Please do not reply to this message within the Community.

Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns.

Please do not send me PMs regarding this message.


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Post #: 805
RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 12/17/2007 1:32:50 PM   
lastblast

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TMeeks

While we need to focus on the TRUTH of God's Word concerning marriage, that truth is wider and deeper than some might allot to it.


You are right, TMeeks. This issue is MUCH bigger than just the wrongness of separating what God has joined together. It brings to light the very heart of what is driving each to that end result.......hardheartedness (either in unwillingness to forsake one's sinful attitudes/behaviors and/or one's refusal to walk in God's love towards the erring/sinful spouse---but instead trying to find an "out").

_____________________________

Blessings as you seek Him, Cindy

What does the bible say on Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage?

www.marriagedivorce.com
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Post #: 806
RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 12/17/2007 5:56:36 PM   
YoelNatan


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I am sorry but again god dose not allow divorce for ANY reason

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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 12/17/2007 6:30:36 PM   
lastblast

 

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I also do not agree that the Lord "permits" divorce...........scripture does teach that there are allowances for separation (I Cor. 7:10-12).........

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What does the bible say on Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage?

www.marriagedivorce.com
www.cadz.net/faq.html
Post #: 808
RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 12/17/2007 9:17:19 PM   
bettymackII

 

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We must remember that God hates divorce, but He does NOT hate those who are divorce.
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 1/14/2008 1:27:11 AM   
mookie1

 

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(sorry if I repeat questions/issues already dealt with, I am not up for reading 800+ posts).

-is it a marriage if it was never consummated? they never engaged in intimate relations since they've been married (almost a year now).
-does this excuse divorce/annulment for the unfaithful spouse?
-what should the response be of a very close friend to both of them (me) who feels it his duty to confront the unfaithful wife? I plan on talking to her about it since she will not hear it from her husband or family.

thank you deermousie for the earlier reply! very encouraging.

< Message edited by mookie1 -- 1/14/2008 1:49:05 AM >
Post #: 810
RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 1/14/2008 8:21:28 AM   
lastblast

 

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There is no biblical support that marriage starts with the consummation. It starts with them agreeing to be ONE together in marriage. If she is withholding from her husband/being unfaithful, she is in sin, but it still is a marriage in God's sight---until death if it is a first marriage for both (Rom. 7:2-3, I Cor. 7:39).

_____________________________

Blessings as you seek Him, Cindy

What does the bible say on Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage?

www.marriagedivorce.com
www.cadz.net/faq.html
Post #: 811
RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 1/15/2008 10:42:36 AM   
brokenheart58

 

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i believe God allows for it, although He hates it. if one spouse is destroying the lives of his spouse or even in some cases demolishing the entire extended family, including children, in laws, grandparents, etc.... by dysfunctional behavior, I believe God would prefer to save an entire family than one person who is unrepentant. The Law allowed for it and Jesus didnt disagree with the Law.
Post #: 812
RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 1/15/2008 11:56:05 AM   
lastblast

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: brokenheart58

i believe God allows for it, although He hates it. if one spouse is destroying the lives of his spouse or even in some cases demolishing the entire extended family, including children, in laws, grandparents, etc.... by dysfunctional behavior, I believe God would prefer to save an entire family than one person who is unrepentant. The Law allowed for it and Jesus didnt disagree with the Law.

Jesus brought us back to CREATION law in regards to marriage---and there was no divorce. Paul teaches the same things (Rom.7:2-3, I cor. 7:39). Marriage is for life, though in some cases, there will be a need for separation (I Cor. 7:10-11), yet those separated are "no longer two, but One flesh" in the sight of God.

_____________________________

Blessings as you seek Him, Cindy

What does the bible say on Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage?

www.marriagedivorce.com
www.cadz.net/faq.html
Post #: 813
RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 1/15/2008 12:52:44 PM   
brokenheart58

 

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I believe that if the separation accomplishes nothing, then divorce is the only option if children and an extended family are being demolished by ONE persons behavior. Financial disaster, dysfunctional and dangerous behavior by children, and an overall atmosphere of depression and darkness can cover such homes. Broken hearted grandparents weep and pray under the shadow of one irresponsible spouses rebellion. Health can be destroyed from the constant stress. I believe Gods grace covers those who decide to get out of this. still, He hates divorce. But the Law did allow it. If it had been wrong in all situations, that would not have been in the law. We will not get back to the perfection of creation until heaven.
Post #: 814
RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 4/2/2008 5:57:48 PM   
MommyhoodX10

 

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I just wanted to say how surprised I am to find a forum that actually ALLOWS believers to talk about this topic... AND to be civil about it too. Great job to the moderators!!! :-)

Ok, I agree with you "marriage for life" people out there... BUT, now what? Maybe this should be a new thread? I have the Trojan Horse book on order but in the mean time does Joseph Webb give any advice, or any of you, about setting things straight in the church today?

For example, when it comes to salvation and spreading the gospel how does all this TRUTH play into things? Can we call ourselves a "believer" while living as an adultress in a second marriage with a living partner? It seems like 1 Cor. 6:9-11 says we can't when it says "and such WERE some of you." Seems to imply not? How does this effect our salvation message? Some say it's not "sin" until we know about it therefore keep this all hush hush to the remarried people. But doesn't becoming a Christian involve belief AND REPENTANCE? What would we expect of the homosexual coming to Christ?

Also, where does it leave the believer that wants to worship in "sincerity and truth"(1 Cor. 5:8) when these that call themselves "believers" want to fellowship with you? Doesn't it say in 1 Cor. 5:9-13 not to even eat with these? Would we be compromising?

But, at the same time we want to reach these for Christ! But how????

Margaret
Post #: 815
RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 4/2/2008 7:02:08 PM   
lastblast

 

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Hey Margaret!

Welcome to the forum. This particular thread is only about divorce, so maybe you would get more response if you posted in the divorce/remarriage thread.

Also, great book, Dr. Webb's Trojan Horse. I read it in 2 days and have since passed it on to some neighbors. Great book on the topic.

Again, Welcome!

_____________________________

Blessings as you seek Him, Cindy

What does the bible say on Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage?

www.marriagedivorce.com
www.cadz.net/faq.html
Post #: 816
RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 4/3/2008 3:16:24 PM   
Fritzpw_Admin


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Click Here for the Divorce and Remarriage thread.

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Post #: 817
RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 4/29/2008 12:05:47 PM   
DenimDiva


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quote:

ORIGINAL: YoelNatan

I am sorry but again god dose not allow divorce for ANY reason


So what happens if one person wants/files for divorce and the other doesn't want to?

_____________________________

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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 4/29/2008 12:53:23 PM   
lastblast

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DenimDiva

quote:

ORIGINAL: YoelNatan

I am sorry but again god dose not allow divorce for ANY reason


So what happens if one person wants/files for divorce and the other doesn't want to?


Whether one wants to file or goes ahead and gets a "legal" divorce does not change how God views the union HE joined together. In such cases, one may be disobedient/walking in sin, yet the other can remain faithful to the Lord and the vows they took----for life..........for better or worse. This definitely could be considered one of the "worse" times that one promised to love the other through. Many today are walking in complete deception. We, those who know the Lord and His ways must be faithful to pray and love those who have succombed to Satan's trappings/whisperings.

_____________________________

Blessings as you seek Him, Cindy

What does the bible say on Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage?

www.marriagedivorce.com
www.cadz.net/faq.html
Post #: 819
RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 4/29/2008 12:56:53 PM   
DenimDiva


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lastblast

quote:

ORIGINAL: DenimDiva

quote:

ORIGINAL: YoelNatan

I am sorry but again god dose not allow divorce for ANY reason


So what happens if one person wants/files for divorce and the other doesn't want to?


Whether one wants to file or goes ahead and gets a "legal" divorce does not change how God views the union HE joined together. In such cases, one may be disobedient/walking in sin, yet the other can remain faithful to the Lord and the vows they took----for life..........for better or worse. This definitely could be considered one of the "worse" times that one promised to love the other through. Many today are walking in complete deception. We, those who know the Lord and His ways must be faithful to pray and love those who have succumbed to Satan's trappings/whisperings.


How can one remain faithful to the Lord and still give the other person the divorce that they want?

_____________________________

Post #: 820
RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 4/29/2008 1:32:47 PM