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RE: joyce meyer - 10/26/2006 9:27:49 PM
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ilj1971
Posts: 23
Joined: 10/8/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
quote:
There is much talk about her 'feel good message'. So, does that mean I should walk around depressed all the time, beating myself up, talking about what a hell deserving sinner I am? That would be trampling all over the blood of Jesus IMO. If God wanted us to feel bad about ourselves, He wouldn't have sent Jesus at all. There is no 'joy in the Lord' in berating myself. I did that for years before I came to Christ, and I think it would be insulting to God for His children to walk around all depressed and despondant talking about how bad our life is. What kind of witness would that be??
We ARE sinners who are deserving of hell. The ONLY reason we escape that fate is through the atoning death of our Savior. God sent Christ not so we can feel good about ourselves but through his death we can have eternal life and spend it relflecting God's glory.
True joy comes in living life through all of its seasons, the good, bad, and the ugly. One can be down but not in despair. One can be in plenty but take the excess in stride. Our witness is not about us but the goodness of God as there is no season of turning in Him.
I agree with you, that we are sinners deserving of hell, and thats why Jesus came. As far as true joy, I know its becasue of what Jesus did for me. Believe me, I know what despair is, having spent time in psych wards and rehabs. But what changed me is God doing a work in me. I feel good about myself because I know I am (besides a sinner deserving hell)a child of God, and that he loves me, faults and all, that I don't have to be perfect. I am grateful for the changes He has made in me. I love myself, and I'm not afraid to say it. How could I not love myself, when His Spirit lives in me? I'm supoosed to emulate Jesus, how can I do that if I think badly of myself?
_____________________________
There is no pit too deep God's arm cannot reach down and pull you out of.
None of us are always 100% right, none of us are always 100% wrong. Last time I checked, none of us are infalliable.
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RE: joyce meyer - 10/26/2006 9:34:22 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 1712
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
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quote:
So what's your definition of swift?
What maters is God's definition- with God a thousand years are as a day. We live under chronos with God all time is kairos.
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RE: joyce meyer - 10/27/2006 12:46:09 AM
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sisrev
Posts: 438
Joined: 8/7/2006
From: The South, ya'll
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ilj1971,
One thing I've heard Joyce say a few times that has really blessed me is, "You can be pitiful or you can be powerful, but you can't be both." For some reason this has really stuck with me. Looking at the negative and feeling sorry for myself is something I struggle with from time to time. But it helps me to remember that who I am in Christ is not dependent on how I feel, and I can walk in the strength of God's promises to me, or I can wallow in my own feelings, but I can't do both.
I'm glad to hear that you've been blessed by the Lord with some of Joyce's messages.
_____________________________
A Virtuous Woman
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RE: joyce meyer - 10/27/2006 7:05:45 AM
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LaurainAL
Posts: 290
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quote:
Every single person, no matter who they are, has misspoke, or taught something wrongly at one time or another.
This is true. But Joyce does this over and over and over with no regard to what scripture says. How can you reconcile this?
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RE: joyce meyer - 10/27/2006 7:48:30 AM
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Soxfan
Posts: 1558
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Connecticut
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ilj1971
I really don't care if others think she is a false teacher or not, because imo, if she was, God would have removed her from her position by now, and what she has taught through scripture and teaching me wouldn't have changed me.
Nowehere in Scripture does it say that God will remove false teachers. As lw9 so accurately put it, it does say that they will be always be around as long we let them. As long as we continue to buy those books, "sow our seeds" into their ministry, cough up money for those phony prayer cloths and other "anointed" trinkets and fill those conferences, they will continue to flourish
It's not me that thinks she is a false teacher. It's the WORD OF GOD.
She teaches that Jesus' death on the cross wasn't sufficient. She teaches that Jesus had to descend to hell and fight some mythical battle with satan and his minions. She teaches that he was almost beaten by satan and then rose up to become the first "born again" man.
She teaches that our words can cancel God's plan as if He is some weakling power. She teaches the FALSE WoF doctrine that faith is a force and with that force, we can use God as some supernatural ATM to get whatever we want. She teaches the FALSE WoF prosperity doctrine. She shares the stage with some of the biggest false teachers around (Duplantis, Copeland, Crouch, Jakes, Dollar, Parsley)
I won't even re-visit how she has used the money her poor followers have coughed up to fund her LAVISH lifestyle.
The quote by Spurgeon in my signature below says it all
_____________________________
"This would be the first step in apostasy; men first forget the true, and then adore the false.".......C.H. Spurgeon
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RE: joyce meyer - 10/27/2006 9:15:50 AM
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Zacchaeus
Posts: 6
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bro_Shane
quote:
ORIGINAL: Zacchaeus
Soxfan,
Read over your list and have to say that I bet any preacher or any person for that matter can be made to look false by taking bits and pieces out of context of the point trying to be made. Also, I certainly don't believe every newspaper clipping I read. Joyce Meyer is a teacher and a human as we all are. I think everyone learns as we go along. The way I feel about it is that her teaching has helped me. God is her judge, just as he is mine. His word tells us that those who believe in him will never be ashamed. So I'm resting in Him and His judgment.
If you want to read Battlefield of the Mind and then discuss what you believe is false I would be interested in your comments.
To say that "any preacher or any person for that matter can be made to look false by taking bits and pieces out of context " is true, but there have been over twenty pages now of quotes, with ample contextual evidence.
Here's a few reasons not to trust her preaching:
1. She has no biblical authority to preach
2. She teaches "positive utterance" which is contrary to scripture
3. She teaches that Jesus had to go to Hell and be tormented by Satan because the work of the cross was not complete
4. She teaches Word of Faith doctrines such as "seed sowing" and that your faith is porportional to your wealth, which is also not scriptural
So, why would you continue to follow someone who clearly teaches heresy?
First of all, let me say that I don't "follow" her, I have merely read some of her books that I have said helped me. All of us learn as we go along....or at least that's how it has been for me. I read the book I mentioned (in the above post) about 7 years ago now and have not reread it....in fact, it had helped me so much that I passed in on to another person who was having problems. If I reread it now.....would I see it differently?.....probably so because I feel I've grown since that time. All I know is that her book helped me at the time. The only ONE that I FOLLOW is THE ONE AND ONLY!
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RE: joyce meyer - 10/27/2006 11:23:37 AM
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lw9
Posts: 898
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Hi ilj1971:
quote:
Again, you are saying she's a false teacher, and if thats what you believe thats fine, but those who listen to anyone else for thier teaching better be careful also. Every single person, no matter who they are, has misspoke, or taught something wrongly at one time or another. Anyone who thinks they are right 100% of the time, imo, is arrogant. So shall we label those who have ever misspoken or mistaught, whehter intentional or unintentional, liars and false teachers?
This isn't a matter of opinion. This is a simple matter of what Ms. Meyers teaches vs. what the Bible says, and they do not add up. There is fact after after documented fact that she purposely and continually teaches against the Bible. There is a huge difference between a teacher who has taught an error [and repents of that error] and a teacher who consistently and unrepentantly brings a different gospel.
quote:
Also your scripture of 2Peter2:1- part of it says false teachers will bring swift destruction on themselves. JM has been around for quite awhile. So what's your definition of swift?
Your definition of 'swift' and 'destruction' is different from God's definition, though. A false teacher can be condemned and already headed for destruction even while flourishing in their 'ministries' and living to a ripe old age:
2 Pet 2:3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping. 4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned... 9 then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment.
Rom 9:22 What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath--prepared for destruction?
We are clearly told to reject anyone bringing a false gospel. They have already condemned themselves:
Gal 1:6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel – 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!
I truly hope you will study this issue further, and rather than be led according to your personal feelings for Ms. Meyers, let the Bible be your guide instead.
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RE: joyce meyer - 10/27/2006 1:09:12 PM
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ilj1971
Posts: 23
Joined: 10/8/2006
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I was just wondering, all of you that say she is a false teacher, have you ever actually watched her on tv? Or do you get all your info through some other means? I know for me, I question everything I get off the internet, due to the fact is is very easily distorted or taken out of context. I take it all with a grain of salt. I also have read the Bible, more than once, and I remember reading that I have victory, an inheritance, mercy, grace, forgiveness, and prosperity in all things, even as my soul prospers.
_____________________________
There is no pit too deep God's arm cannot reach down and pull you out of.
None of us are always 100% right, none of us are always 100% wrong. Last time I checked, none of us are infalliable.
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RE: joyce meyer - 10/27/2006 2:56:06 PM
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lw9
Posts: 898
Joined: 7/22/2005
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ilj1971:
I have watched her on TV. She seems like a warm and personable person, and she is a good speaker who connects with her audience, but that doesn't change her false message.
quote:
I also have read the Bible, more than once, and I remember reading that I have victory, an inheritance, mercy, grace, forgiveness, and prosperity in all things, even as my soul prospers.
Can you explain where we are promised prosperity in all things [such as health & wealth] in the Bible?
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RE: joyce meyer - 10/27/2006 3:07:30 PM
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Soxfan
Posts: 1558
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Connecticut
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ilj1971
I was just wondering, all of you that say she is a false teacher, have you ever actually watched her on tv? Or do you get all your info through some other means? I know for me, I question everything I get off the internet, due to the fact is is very easily distorted or taken out of context. I take it all with a grain of salt. I also have read the Bible, more than once, and I remember reading that I have victory, an inheritance, mercy, grace, forgiveness, and prosperity in all things, even as my soul prospers.
That is a very legitimate question. I mentioned a few weeks ago on a thread (forgot which one) that I purchased the Sky Angel satellite system about 4 years ago. Some of our friends already had it and were telling us to watch this teacher, or that teacher. I had already done some research on most of the TV teachers, I felt it was my duty as a Berean to watch and test their teaching against Scripture with my own eyes and ears. I made sure that my Bible was in my hand as I sat through the "Who's Who" of False Teachers (Meyer, Hinn, Osteen, Dollar, Duplantis, Crouch, Parsley, Hagee, Paula White, Jakes, Copeland, Hickey, Price, Cerullo, Savelle, Clement, RH Browne, Roberts, etc). I even recorded some of the messages in case some of my friends tried the "do not touch God's anointed" or "do not judge" lines!
So I guess after all that, my answer to your question on whether I've watched Joyce Meyer is...YES.
Does she seem like a very nice and caring person?...Yes
Has she been through a lot of heartache in her life?.....Yes
Is she a good motivational speaker?...Yes
Do I believe Joyce Meyer is a false teacher...YES
quote:
I also have read the Bible, more than once, and I remember reading that I have victory, an inheritance, mercy, grace, forgiveness, and prosperity in all things, even as my soul prospers.
Can you please provide Scripture that says that we are promised prosperity in "all things"?
_____________________________
"This would be the first step in apostasy; men first forget the true, and then adore the false.".......C.H. Spurgeon
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RE: joyce meyer - 10/27/2006 3:51:05 PM
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notmycity
Posts: 766
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ilj1971
I also have read the Bible, more than once, and I remember reading that I have victory, an inheritance, mercy, grace, forgiveness, and prosperity in all things, even as my soul prospers.
By way of comparison.....
Heb 11:36-40
36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
38 (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
Please try to reconcile that with the “prosperity” teaching.
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: joyce meyer - 10/27/2006 4:07:35 PM
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ilj1971
Posts: 23
Joined: 10/8/2006
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I don't have my bible in front of me right now, but I know it was in one of Paul's prayers for the church. Prosper in all things, to me, means health, relationships, my walk with God(soul), and my finances, etc. If that isn't what Paul meant could you give me your definition? I mean what else would he be talking about?
_____________________________
There is no pit too deep God's arm cannot reach down and pull you out of.
None of us are always 100% right, none of us are always 100% wrong. Last time I checked, none of us are infalliable.
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RE: joyce meyer - 10/27/2006 4:29:28 PM
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Bro_Shane
Posts: 1631
Joined: 8/4/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ilj1971
I was just wondering, all of you that say she is a false teacher, have you ever actually watched her on tv? Or do you get all your info through some other means? I know for me, I question everything I get off the internet, due to the fact is is very easily distorted or taken out of context. I take it all with a grain of salt. I also have read the Bible, more than once, and I remember reading that I have victory, an inheritance, mercy, grace, forgiveness, and prosperity in all things, even as my soul prospers.
I have watched her for an extended period of time (once in a three month stretch, continually). It all comes out the same.
Now, and I am not trying to be a jerk, but can you tell me the verse you cite at the end of your post? If so, are you aware of how this is lifted out of context and does not mean what you (and she) are trying to make it mean? This is what I'm talking about. The onlt legs her doctrines stand on are those of twisted scripture bereft of context.
Again, I'm not saying take my word for it. Just look at the scripture she uses and do a careful study, apart from any material that comes from her or anyone of her ilk (99% of those on TBN), and see for yourself.
_____________________________
<---- Respect the turtle neck
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RE: joyce meyer - 10/27/2006 4:37:00 PM
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notmycity
Posts: 766
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ilj1971
I don't have my bible in front of me right now, but I know it was in one of Paul's prayers for the church. Prosper in all things, to me, means health, relationships, my walk with God(soul), and my finances, etc. If that isn't what Paul meant could you give me your definition? I mean what else would he be talking about?
Actually, it was a salutation from John:
3 Jn 1:1-4
1 The elder unto the wellbeloved Gaius, whom I love in the truth.
2 Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.
3 For I rejoiced greatly, when the brethren came and testified of the truth that is in thee, even as thou walkest in the truth.
4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
Please notice the emphasis however is on TRUTH.
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: joyce meyer - 10/27/2006 4:37:35 PM
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lw9
Posts: 898
Joined: 7/22/2005
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Hi ilj1971:
quote:
I don't have my bible in front of me right now, but I know it was in one of Paul's prayers for the church. Prosper in all things, to me, means health, relationships, my walk with God(soul), and my finances, etc. If that isn't what Paul meant could you give me your definition? I mean what else would he be talking about?
I don't know if this is what you're talking about:
3 Jn 1:2 Beloved, I pray that in all respects you may prosper and be in good health, just as your soul prospers. 3 For I was very glad when brethren came and bore witness to your truth, that is, how you are walking in truth.
If so, this is a simple prayer, not a promise. I also pray/hope that folks remain in good health, but that's no guarantee or promise of anything. You have to balance this out with all other scripture, particularly the ones which tell us we will be persecuted and suffer hardships. The disciples went through very difficult times as faithful Christians - are we any better than them that we think hard times can't or shouldn't fall on us?
Wealth or poverty is not an indicator of faith, and no one here has said we need to be destitute to be Christian, but to go in the opposite direction and say that we all need to look for promised material riches from God is also incorrect. What does the Bible say about contentment vs. the desire for wealth?
1 Tim 6:6 But godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. 8 And if we have food and covering, with these shall we be content. 9 But those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a snare and many foolish and harmful desires which plunge ment into ruin and destruction. 10 For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith, and pierced themselves with many a pang. 11 But flee from these things, you man of God; and pursue righteousness, godlinesss, faith, love, perseverance and gentleness.
Even the desire for wealth is called wrong and not to be pursued, yet this is exactly what teachers like Joyce Meyers preach: the desire and expectation of material wealth. I hope you can see the problem.
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RE: joyce meyer - 10/27/2006 4:54:43 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 1712
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
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I guess the bolded areas got cut from the WOF bible
2 Corinthians 12:10 (ESV)
10For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong.
Philippians 4:11 - 13 (ESV)
11Not that I am speaking of being in need, for I have learned in whatever situation I am to be content. 12I know how to be brought low, and I know how to abound. In any and every circumstance, I have learned the secret of facing plenty and hunger, abundance and need. 13I can do all things through him who strengthens me.
1 Timothy 6:3 - 10 (ESV) 3If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound£ words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness, 4he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions, 5and constant friction among people who are depraved in mind and deprived of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain. 6Now there is great gain in godliness with contentment, 7for we brought nothing into the world, and£ we cannot take anything out of the world. 8But if we have food and clothing, with these we will be content. 9But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. 10For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.
Hebrews 13:5 - 6 (ESV) 5Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have, for he has said, £“I will never leave you nor forsake you.” 6So we can confidently say, £“The Lord is my helper; I will not fear; what can man do to me?”
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RE: joyce meyer - 10/27/2006 5:05:40 PM
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ilj1971
Posts: 23
Joined: 10/8/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
I guess the bolded areas got cut from the WOF bible
2 Corinthians 12:10 (ESV)
10For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong.
Philippians 4:11 - 13 (ESV)
11Not that I am speaking of being in need, for I have learned in whatever situation I am to be content. 12I know how to be brought low, and I know how to abound. In any and every circumstance, I have learned the secret of facing plenty and hunger, abundance and need. 13I can do all things through him who strengthens me.
1 Timothy 6:3 - 10 (ESV) 3If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound£ words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness, 4he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions, 5and constant friction among people who are depraved in mind and deprived of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain. 6Now there is great gain in godliness with contentment, 7for we brought nothing into the world, and£ we cannot take anything out of the world. 8But if we have food and clothing, with these we will be content. 9But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. 10For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.
Hebrews 13:5 - 6 (ESV) 5Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have, for he has said, £“I will never leave you nor forsake you.” 6So we can confidently say, £“The Lord is my helper; I will not fear; what can man do to me?”
Please don't label me as a liar since I misquoted scripture now. I don't read from a wof bible either, thank you for your concern though. Please note what I put in bold. If I was rich, and God asked me to give it all up, would I? Absolutley. Its the love of money. I bet if you asked Joyce Meyer she would too. I want to be blessed so I can be a blessing. I'm sorry, but I refuse to walk around despondant, poor, and feeling bad for/about myself all the time. What is so wrong about believing God for good things in my life? I'm not just talking about money either.
_____________________________
There is no pit too deep God's arm cannot reach down and pull you out of.
None of us are always 100% right, none of us are always 100% wrong. Last time I checked, none of us are infalliable.
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RE: joyce meyer - 10/27/2006 5:22:25 PM
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notmycity
Posts: 766
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ilj1971
I want to be blessed so I can be a blessing. I'm sorry, but I refuse to walk around despondant, poor, and feeling bad for/about myself all the time. What is so wrong about believing God for good things in my life? I'm not just talking about money either.
Jesus said:
Matt 6:19-21
19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
There’s also this truth:
2 Cor 8:9
9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.
What did an apostle pen?
Phil 4:11
11 Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content.
And...
1 Tim 6:6
6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.
1 Tim 6:8
8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
Consider the proverb:
Prov 30:8-9
8 Remove far from me vanity and lies: give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with food convenient for me:
9 Lest I be full, and deny thee, and say, Who is the LORD? or lest I be poor, and steal, and take the name of my God in vain.
You can be a blessing in any circumstance IF you are a genuine disciple.
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: joyce meyer - 10/27/2006 5:38:38 PM
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lw9
Posts: 898
Joined: 7/22/2005
Status: offline
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ilj1971:
No one has labeled you a liar. I think everyone knew that you were just trying to recall a particular scripture and that particular scripture is what we are addressing. We've been pointing out the scriptures which prove the 'prosperity gospel' to be incorrect and contradictory.
quote:
I want to be blessed so I can be a blessing.
Why are you equating material wealth as 'blessed' and 'blessing'? We can help others whether we're rich or poor. No need to wait for wealth to be a blessing to others.
quote:
I'm sorry, but I refuse to walk around despondant, poor, and feeling bad for/about myself all the time. What is so wrong about believing God for good things in my life? I'm not just talking about money either.
Again, you need to point out exactly where anyone in this thread has said you must walk around despondant and poor. Please state the post number. Thanks.
quote:
What is so wrong about believing God for good things in my life? I'm not just talking about money either.
There is no doubt that Christ sees us through the good times and the hard times, but that's the point: there may be hard times. If all you are expecting in this life is to be 'blessed' rather than understanding that you may go through persecution and hardships, how is your faith going to stand up to that?
The Bible says: Expect the world to hate you, expect to be persecuted, insulted, and to suffer for the name of Jesus Christ!
Prosperity gospel says: Expect wealth and continual health! If you suffer, it's your own fault due to your lack of faith.
These are two completely different messages - how do you reconcile them?
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RE: joyce meyer - 10/27/2006 5:50:19 PM
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sisrev
Posts: 438
Joined: 8/7/2006
From: The South, ya'll
Status: offline
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It's interesting to me which words are emphasized and bolded when posters quote scripture. I personally am not WOF, I think they are unbalanced in their emphasis. On the other hand, I find many other Christians who are unbalanced just as much, but in other directions. There are many, many scriptures that speak of being content with what we have, with facing persecutions, etc. But, there are just as many that speak of being blessed by God. It all lies in maintaining the proper balance.
Look at the entire passage in Phillippians 4
10 But I rejoiced in the Lord greatly that now at last your care for me has flourished again; though you surely did care, but you lacked opportunity. 11 Not that I speak in regard to need, for I have learned in whatever state I am, to be content: 12 I know how to be abased, and I know how to abound. Everywhere and in all things I have learned both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need. 13 I can do all things through Christ F8 who strengthens me. 14 Nevertheless you have done well that you shared in my distress. 15 Now you Philippians know also that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church shared with me concerning giving and receiving but you only. 16 For even in Thessalonica you sent aid once and again for my necessities. 17 Not that I seek the gift, but I seek the fruit that abounds to your account. 18 Indeed I have all and abound. I am full, having received from Epaphroditus the things sent from you, a sweet-smelling aroma, an acceptable sacrifice, well pleasing to God. 19 And my God shall supply all your need according to His riches in glory by Christ Jesus.
I, too, can bold certain words & phrases, the ones about abundance, and being full. The truth lies in keeping balance. What about the passage in Micah, where God promises that when you bring your tithes in the storehouse, He will open up the windows of heaven so you can't even contain it. Does this JUST mean money? I don't think so.
Am I rich? By no means.
Am I blessed? By all means, not just financially.
Has God met my needs? Yes, and some of my wants, too.
Is money the root of all evil? No, but the love of money is.
The Bible warns us that it is difficult for a rich person to enter in the kingdom of heaven, but does that mean every rich person is going to hell? Not at all.
I have been a Christian for a good many years, and have been involved in teaching & ministry of one sort or another for many of those. I know for a certainty that I have taught things in the past that I now realize were error. Will I give account of those words to God? You betcha I will. But does that mean that every single thing I've ever taught now needs to be thrown out because I made some errors? I don't think so.
People are human. Even ministers. They make mistakes sometimes. God can take the good things that they say & do, and use it to bless people, whether we like it or not.
I find it heartbreaking to see the anger, the venom, and the attacks on other posters that go on here in these forums on a daily basis.
My desire in attempting to ressurect this thread a page or two back, is to give opportunity for those who like Joyce Meyer and have been blessed by her teaching in the past, to express that. Unfortunately, I have found that other posters will apparently not allow that to happen.
lw9, I commend you, for expressing your disagreement in a respectful way.
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A Virtuous Woman
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RE: joyce meyer - 10/27/2006 7:15:01 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 1712
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: offline
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I am sure that people have been “blessed” by teachers such as David Koresh, Jim Jones, Sun Yung Moon, Mary Baker Eddy, Brigham Young, et al. or they wouldn’t have attracted their followings. While Joyce Myers doesn’t fall into the cult leader category of these individuals, her teachings fall outside the boundaries of orthodox Christianity and must labeled as a false teacher and must be treated as the bible commands,
quote:
People are human. Even ministers. They make mistakes sometimes. God can take the good things that they say & do, and use it to bless people, whether we like it or not.
There is a vast difference from misquoting scripture to distorting it.
quote:
I find it heartbreaking to see the anger, the venom, and the attacks on other posters that go on here in these forums on a daily basis.
No one has attacked the individual. That is a TOS violation. Individials are responding to what others have posted and have attempted to pull apart their reasoning. This is just healthy debate and not an angry arguement.
quote:
My desire in attempting to ressurect this thread a page or two back, is to give opportunity for those who like Joyce Meyer and have been blessed by her teaching in the past, to express that. Unfortunately, I have found that other posters will apparently not allow that to happen.
I am sure she has a web site for individuals to gush over her teachings. This is a site for the examination of them in the light of Scripture and for an honest discussion of them. Expect people to honestly respond to this topic.
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RE: joyce meyer - 10/27/2006 7:27:20 PM
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lw9
Posts: 898
Joined: 7/22/2005
Status: offline
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Hi sisrev:
quote:
My desire in attempting to ressurect this thread a page or two back, is to give opportunity for those who like Joyce Meyer and have been blessed by her teaching in the past, to express that. Unfortunately, I have found that other posters will apparently not allow that to happen.
I understand your frustration with this thread, because it obviously hasn't gone the way you would have liked. I will be honest: this is one of those issues where I just can't remain silent and try to agree on the 'good' because there is too much bad, and the bad is dangerous beyond belief. When someone - anyone - claims that Jesus Christ did not pay for our sins on the cross but instead was dragged into hell and paid for sin there, this is a falsehood which will have eternal consequences [!] for anyone who buys into it, because they are accepting a false Christ. That's how serious this issue is.
I say this from the bottom of my heart: I am scared, worried, anxious, and concerned for anyone who listens to WOF teachings because I understand the power of false teaching: it leads people away from Jesus Christ and into destruction. There is no way to sugar coat that, and it's why I and so many others spend so much time trying to show the truth of scripture and compare it to what's false. I understand from your perspective it may seem like we're just trying to rain on everyone's parade... but that's honestly not the reason we're here. If we didn't care about our neighbor [you!], we wouldn't bother trying to raise the alarm.
Also to consider: Don't you kind of wonder why so many Christians are here stating the exact same thing about this teaching and able to point out scriptural evidence against it?
We may meet again in disagreement, but I hope you will at least see a new perspective as to why we are sometimes so 'bothersome'! 
quote:
lw9, I commend you, for expressing your disagreement in a respectful way.
That was very kind - thank you!
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RE: joyce meyer - 10/27/2006 7:53:11 PM
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sisrev
Posts: 438
Joined: 8/7/2006
From: The South, ya'll
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
quote:
I find it heartbreaking to see the anger, the venom, and the attacks on other posters that go on here in these forums on a daily basis.
No one has attacked the individual. That is a TOS violation. Individials are responding to what others have posted and have attempted to pull apart their reasoning. This is just healthy debate and not an angry arguement.
Please see post #555 on this thread, and many other warnings, deletions, etc, sprinkled throughout all of the other threads on all of the other forums. Just because it is against TOS doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.
quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
quote:
My desire in attempting to ressurect this thread a page or two back, is to give opportunity for those who like Joyce Meyer and have been blessed by her teaching in the past, to express that. Unfortunately, I have found that other posters will apparently not allow that to happen.
I am sure she has a web site for individuals to gush over her teachings. This is a site for the examination of them in the light of Scripture and for an honest discussion of them. Expect people to honestly respond to this topic.
Please note, I am not against examination and honest discussion--and I am NOT speaking of you specifically--but there are some on this thread and on others who seem to take especial delight in making their point at other's expense.
< Message edited by sisrev -- 10/28/2006 2:04:27 AM >
_____________________________
A Virtuous Woman
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RE: joyce meyer - 10/28/2006 11:58:48 AM
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Zacchaeus
Posts: 6
Joined: 10/4/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sisrev
quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
quote:
I find it heartbreaking to see the anger, the venom, and the attacks on other posters that go on here in these forums on a daily basis.
No one has attacked the individual. That is a TOS violation. Individials are responding to what others have posted and have attempted to pull apart their reasoning. This is just healthy debate and not an angry arguement.
Well, you sure fooled me! Of all those who are so negative, I'll bet most have not even read one of her books. Not only that, but most have probably not had the problems that her books deal with. Negative people, tell us what book you have read and speak to specific passages so we can all take a look.
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RE: joyce meyer - 10/28/2006 11:58:57 AM
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Bro_Shane
Posts: 1631
Joined: 8/4/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ilj1971
Please don't label me as a liar since I misquoted scripture now. I don't read from a wof bible either, thank you for your concern though. Please note what I put in bold. If I was rich, and God asked me to give it all up, would I? Absolutley. Its the love of money. I bet if you asked Joyce Meyer she would too. I want to be blessed so I can be a blessing. I'm sorry, but I refuse to walk around despondant, poor, and feeling bad for/about myself all the time. What is so wrong about believing God for good things in my life? I'm not just talking about money either.
Please do not think that I (and I think I speak for everyone here) think you are a liar, and I hold no grudge against you at all. When all you have to do is read the written word, and not speak to someone face to face, it is so easy to misunderstand on both sides. Please, please do not think we sit here angrily waiting to pounce on people we do not like because they like other people we do not like. If you say you are a born again believer, I take you at your word. And, anything else (and I believe this holds true for us all here) that is said is said out of love for both those who are involved in the actual teaching of this false doctrine as well of those either caught up in it or in danger of doing so.
There is nothing wrong with believing in God for good things in your life - just be sure the "good things" are in line with scripture and not what some man or woman says, even me.
I feel, and I could be wrong, you probably feel a little picked on. Please do not feel that way. You are my sibling in Christ and I love you through the grace He gives. What we do here is try to keep God's precious children from following teachings that lead to a stunted growth in Christ or, even worse, no growth at all.
quote:
ORIGINAL: sisrev
It's interesting to me which words are emphasized and bolded when posters quote scripture. I personally am not WOF, I think they are unbalanced in their emphasis.
They are not unbalanced. When one side offers their assertions as absolute, ignoring the clear teaching of scripture, it is quite fair and called for to emphasize the parts lacking or ignored.
It all lies in maintaining the proper balance.
In this case, balance has nothing to do with anything. The point is what God's word says, all of it, and that in context. The WOF people do not believe in balance or moderation and they care even less for scripture as evidenced by their continual misuse of such.
quote:
I, too, can bold certain words & phrases, the ones about abundance, and being full. The truth lies in keeping balance. What about the passage in Micah, where God promises that when you bring your tithes in the storehouse, He will open up the windows of heaven so you can't even contain it. Does this JUST mean money? I don't think so.
And putting something in bold for the sake of doing it proves nothing. Again, balance is not the issue. Truth is the issue and it is absolute. I believe you mean well, I really do, and I am not one of those who believe those who reside in poverty or squalor are the only righteous people in the planet. Maybe I am misunderstanding you, but what bothers me is the view of money as an end and not as means. If I'm wrong please tell me so.
quote:
People are human. Even ministers. They make mistakes sometimes. God can take the good things that they say & do, and use it to bless people, whether we like it or not.
Quite true. And I fully expect anyone in my congregation to call me on any error I make. However, there is a clear line between a slip of the tongue, being involved with a false doctrine due to immature faith, and people who are supposed to be mature Spirit led leaders systematically teaching error.
As an aside, I do not envy you being in Alaska right now. It's about 40 degrees here in Alabama and my feet are already cold 
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<---- Respect the turtle neck
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