|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: joyce meyer - 6/15/2007 12:50:29 PM
|
|
|
lw9
Posts: 898
Joined: 7/22/2005
Status: offline
|
Hi again everjoyful!!
quote:
thankyou. yes that makes sense.
I'm so glad! Now that you know where and why Jesus descended, you can see exactly why He made the following statement to the thief on the cross:
Luke 23:39 And one of the criminals who were hanged there was hurling abuse at Him, saying, “Are You not the Christ? Save Yourself and us!” 40 But the other [criminal] answered, and rebuking him said, “Do you not even fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation?” 41 “And we indeed justly, for we are receiving what we deserve for our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.” 42 And he was saying, “Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!” 43 And Jesus said to him, “Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise.”
Yup... Jesus knew exactly where He was headed when His body died: Paradise.
Word of Faith teachers claim that Jesus was dragged into the place of eternal torment for the wicked [hell] and tortured by demons. They claim He died spiritually because He didn't just bear sin in His flesh but had literally become sin, and therefore needed to be 'reborn spiritually' in hell. The Bible says: Not a chance. WOF descibes a very different christ from the Biblical Christ, and I hope you will stay well away from any teacher who would do that. Anyway, I'm so glad you popped in for a chat with us - it's been very enjoyable. 
|
|
|
|
|
RE: joyce meyer - 6/18/2007 3:37:29 AM
|
|
|
everjoyful
Posts: 118
Joined: 1/4/2007
Status: offline
|
i totally forgot jesus said that to the person next to him. he did say he was going to paradise. lol. how then can it be claimed he was in hell?
it's been good to actually learn something here instead of having some pointless argument lol. bless you.
_____________________________
john 14 v27...do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: joyce meyer - 6/18/2007 10:33:00 AM
|
|
|
Bro_Shane
Posts: 1631
Joined: 8/4/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: shelaughed
I didn't say anything of the sort. This is a pretty big stretch. I posted the scripture that was quoted as saying didn't exist in the bible.
I didn't say you did. I was referring to what JM and her ilk teach. Perhaps I shoul dhave been more clear. Sorry for the confusion.
quote:
I guess my question to you (and others) is......if the tongue and the words that we use aren't powerful, why so much about it in the Bible?
It does have a certian amount of power, just not the way JM presents it. That is why scripture warns us against speaking hurtful words which do damage to ourselves, others, and the kingdom in general. Negative words can hurt feelings. There is no supernatural power there, onlt the fruit of the fallen nature. Our words do not become "powerful" until the align with God's word and will and then the power is not ours, but God speaking through us. JM teaches that our words have power and the bility to make God act on our behalf.
quote:
I'm not asking you to defend JM. I'm not asking you to change your stance about her. I am saying that the bible talks ALOT about our words and the attitude of our heart (aka mind will and emotions). Clearly this is something important to God.
I agree. But the difference is what I pointed out above. JM and her lot give us more power than scripture says we have and, in doing so, diminishes the power of God in the minds of the people that listen.
quote:
My parents were unkind with thier words. I grew up thinking I was stupid and ugly and worthless. Why? Well because I was called names, those and others.
I'm sorry for your pain. You don't believe them now, right? What power do they have now? None. When we relenquish our stubborn nature to God He make sus new and He allows us to walk in His power and love. We just obey. JM does not teach this.
quote:
I wonder how I might have viewed myself if my parents had told me I was beautiful and deserving of love and that I was precious to them and that I was smart?
I don't know, but the power of God works no matter what anyones says or what words they use. Our circumstances may change, but God never does. It is His words we should focus on. Feelings are fickle things and the words we use to communicate them can change as well. Why would God give us that much power with so little self control?
quote:
If the tongue isn't important and words mean nothing, why is it necessary for salvation to confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord?
No one has said this. What we have said is that what JM teaches is wrong. Saying her teaching is wrong is not the same as saying what she is teaching about does not exist. Our words are important, just not the way she presents it. Her teaching on it is not scriptural.
quote:
However I will tell you this, you won't change mine. God has delievered me from a lifetime of bondage.....with words.
I'm not trying to change your mind. I'm just asking you to prayerfully consider what I have said against God's word. Place what JM says against scripture in context and it falls apart every time. Don't trust me, though. Go to the word.
_____________________________
<---- Respect the turtle neck
|
|
|
|
|
RE: joyce meyer - 6/19/2007 11:54:26 AM
|
|
|
shelaughed
Posts: 108
Joined: 4/2/2007
From: this spot on earth
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bro_Shane
I didn't say you did. I was referring to what JM and her ilk teach. Perhaps I shoul dhave been more clear. Sorry for the confusion.
Ok, I thought you were speaking to me and not in general.
quote:
It does have a certian amount of power, just not the way JM presents it. That is why scripture warns us against speaking hurtful words which do damage to ourselves, others, and the kingdom in general. Negative words can hurt feelings. There is no supernatural power there, onlt the fruit of the fallen nature. Our words do not become "powerful" until the align with God's word and will and then the power is not ours, but God speaking through us. JM teaches that our words have power and the bility to make God act on our behalf.
Frankly, I've never heard her say that (not in 10 years). These snippetts don't convince me she has said that either.
quote:
I agree. But the difference is what I pointed out above. JM and her lot give us more power than scripture says we have and, in doing so, diminishes the power of God in the minds of the people that listen. please see the above comment.
quote:
I'm sorry for your pain. You don't believe them now, right? What power do they have now? None. When we relenquish our stubborn nature to God He make sus new and He allows us to walk in His power and love. We just obey. JM does not teach this.
No of course I don't believe them now? None. But they had power when they were said. Their words had enormous power over my life, that of which ONLY Gods Words has been able to conquor.
Again I have never heard JM teach disobedience. Not in 10 years.
quote:
I don't know, but the power of God works no matter what anyones says or what words they use. Our circumstances may change, but God never does. It is His words we should focus on. Feelings are fickle things and the words we use to communicate them can change as well. Why would God give us that much power with so little self control?
That is exactly what I have gotten out of JMs teaching. The power of God works. We should focus on WOG. We should stop living our life based on emotion and line up our thinking with the word of God. Now, maybe God has given me the ability to eat the meat and spit out the bones, but I haven't thought for one moment that I can change God or His purpose in my life.
quote:
No one has said this. What we have said is that what JM teaches is wrong. Saying her teaching is wrong is not the same as saying what she is teaching about does not exist. Our words are important, just not the way she presents it. Her teaching on it is not scriptural.
I have been able to see what she says is in the bible, for sure. My thoughts and my words and my actions must line up with WOG, regardless to circumstances and/or how I feel.
quote:
I'm not trying to change your mind. I'm just asking you to prayerfully consider what I have said against God's word. Place what JM says against scripture in context and it falls apart every time. Don't trust me, though. Go to the word.
I have gone to WOG, it clearly says:
Proverbs 18: 20-21
20 From the fruit of his mouth a man's stomach is filled;
with the harvest from his lips he is satisfied.
21 The tongue has the power of life and death,
and those who love it will eat its fruit.
Proverbs 23: 7
7 For as he thinks in his heart, so is he.
“ Eat and drink!” he says to you,
But his heart is not with you.
James 3: 1-10
1 My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment. 2 For we all stumble in many things. If anyone does not stumble in word, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle the whole body. 3 Indeed,[a] we put bits in horses’ mouths that they may obey us, and we turn their whole body. 4 Look also at ships: although they are so large and are driven by fierce winds, they are turned by a very small rudder wherever the pilot desires. 5 Even so the tongue is a little member and boasts great things.
See how great a forest a little fire kindles! 6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity. The tongue is so set among our members that it defiles the whole body, and sets on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire by hell. 7 For every kind of beast and bird, of reptile and creature of the sea, is tamed and has been tamed by mankind. 8 But no man can tame the tongue. It is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison. 9 With it we bless our God and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in the similitude of God. 10 Out of the same mouth proceed blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not to be so.
JM is not teaching theology. She's not writing theology. She's a communicator and a very good one at that. She has helped many people with what should be "logical" application. Whereas some might not read a book on prayer, they'll listen to 20 minutes of someone speaking on it.
By her own admission she's from the other side of the tracks, she's not multi-degreed,
She speaks in a theatrical manner, using hyperbole and even employing melodramatic expressions to make a point. This is what all good evangelists have done.
_____________________________
~~Shelly - http://shellysspot.blogspot.com
If you can't say AMEN, you outta say OUCH!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: joyce meyer - 6/19/2007 12:56:30 PM
|
|
|
Bro_Shane
Posts: 1631
Joined: 8/4/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: shelaughed
JM is not teaching theology. She's not writing theology. She's a communicator and a very good one at that. She has helped many people with what should be "logical" application. Whereas some might not read a book on prayer, they'll listen to 20 minutes of someone speaking on it.
Oh, but she is. Theology is nothing more than the study of God. Anyone who studies God's word, whether they like it or not, has a theology. When she teaches hers, she teaches theology. She is very good at communicating. It's what she communicates that is the problem. You say you have listened to her for ten years and never heard her say the things she's said. We have quoted where she has said blashphemous things. We have quoted sources that canbe easily verified for accuracy and context. She teaches wrongly and redefines words and passages to suit her purpose.
I don't think you realize this, but a lot of what you are saying is in disagreement with her teaching.
quote:
Again I have never heard JM teach disobedience. Not in 10 years.
Because she does not call it that. It is called positive utterance. She gives humans more power, through their words, than we have. It is subtle many times, but she elevates the power of the human tongue and, in doing so, diminishes the power of the One that created it.
quote:
She speaks in a theatrical manner, using hyperbole and even employing melodramatic expressions to make a point. This is what all good evangelists have done.
Which is why the bad ones ape it.
Look, I am truly pleased you have come out of the hurtful things in your past. By saying much of what you say I believe you are spitting the bones out. But, the longer you chew on them the larger the probability you will get choked.
_____________________________
<---- Respect the turtle neck
|
|
|
|
|
RE: joyce meyer - 6/19/2007 3:05:20 PM
|
|
|
shelaughed
Posts: 108
Joined: 4/2/2007
From: this spot on earth
Status: offline
|
I've been a Christian long enough and studied the WOG for myself enough to know what the bible says vs. what someone else believes.
If JM believes she can "chant" something into existance, Great! I'd like to see her do it.
I don't believe I can chant anything into existance. I do think my life can and will change for the better when I get my thinking in line with WOG.
I don't agree with everything JM says, but I do agree that we CAN change out thoughts to be agreeable with WOG. I learned that from her. I don't have to think about all the bad stuff that happened. I CAN think about "whatsoever is...."; its my choice.
I have learned that there is so much more to me than what my parents gave me.
I have learned that I CAN be the wife God created me to be.
I have learned that I DO hold the power (of the God of the universe) inside of me and With Him, I CAN do anything He has Willed me to do.
Look, I think we have discussed this before....
Until you have had your parent come into your room every night for four years to have sex with you...and until you have been beaten during the day for said "acts against your parent" that BTW God will never forgive you for.....until you have heard someone who understands this "stigma" and has been able to "overcome" by the blood of Christ and by the word of your testimony, you won't understand the appeal.
I haven't read her books, I have heard 20 minute teachings on the radio or on TV over the years. Oh I take that back I have read one book, I think its called Help me I'm afraid, or Victory over Fear...Basically its about Psalm 91. It didn't warp me for life...its helped me to see that God can be trusted.
1 in 4 women have been sexually abused. You can imagine how enlightening it is to hear that it is possible to overcome; abuse, vitimization, victim mentality. With Christ and thru the WOG it IS possible. This junk doesn't have to be passed on to future generations. I can draw the Bloodline (of Christ) in the sand and say NO MORE! I will be the first of 1000 generations to love God and keep His Commandments.
Theres not much teaching from the pulpit (by men) about "how to" get out of bondage and "how to" stop these cycles and "how to" trust God. Who has mostly male attributes. I honestly couldn't hear that from a man. It was refreshing to hear someone that I related to. And thru that has opened up my ability to trust God and to trust men. Now I can hear teaching from men. Now I trust God and now I trust men.
I appreciate your concern for my spiritual walk....I understand that you are passionate about your beliefs and that you don't want innocent sheep led astray. I can see how some of her teaching, especially if you go to a conference and/or read some of her books could be led into something less than doctrinal. Ultimately she has not (from my experience over 10 years) said to worship, pray to or believe in anyone other than the Most High God and His Son Jesus Christ.
It might curl your toes to know that I was led to Christ by Benny Hinn! ;) I don't subscribe to his way to thinking, but he was the one on TV talking about salvation and I accepted Christ in my living room Memorial day weekend 1995. It is relatively easy to eat the meat and spit out the bones. :)
_____________________________
~~Shelly - http://shellysspot.blogspot.com
If you can't say AMEN, you outta say OUCH!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: joyce meyer - 6/19/2007 3:37:42 PM
|
|
|
Bro_Shane
Posts: 1631
Joined: 8/4/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: shelaughed
I've been a Christian long enough and studied the WOG for myself enough to know what the bible says vs. what someone else believes.
If JM believes she can "chant" something into existance, Great! I'd like to see her do it.
I don't believe I can chant anything into existance. I do think my life can and will change for the better when I get my thinking in line with WOG.
I don't agree with everything JM says, but I do agree that we CAN change out thoughts to be agreeable with WOG. I learned that from her. I don't have to think about all the bad stuff that happened. I CAN think about "whatsoever is...."; its my choice.
I have learned that there is so much more to me than what my parents gave me.
I have learned that I CAN be the wife God created me to be.
I have learned that I DO hold the power (of the God of the universe) inside of me and With Him, I CAN do anything He has Willed me to do.
Look, I think we have discussed this before....
Until you have had your parent come into your room every night for four years to have sex with you...and until you have been beaten during the day for said "acts against your parent" that BTW God will never forgive you for.....until you have heard someone who understands this "stigma" and has been able to "overcome" by the blood of Christ and by the word of your testimony, you won't understand the appeal.
I haven't read her books, I have heard 20 minute teachings on the radio or on TV over the years. Oh I take that back I have read one book, I think its called Help me I'm afraid, or Victory over Fear...Basically its about Psalm 91. It didn't warp me for life...its helped me to see that God can be trusted.
1 in 4 women have been sexually abused. You can imagine how enlightening it is to hear that it is possible to overcome; abuse, vitimization, victim mentality. With Christ and thru the WOG it IS possible. This junk doesn't have to be passed on to future generations. I can draw the Bloodline (of Christ) in the sand and say NO MORE! I will be the first of 1000 generations to love God and keep His Commandments.
Theres not much teaching from the pulpit (by men) about "how to" get out of bondage and "how to" stop these cycles and "how to" trust God. Who has mostly male attributes. I honestly couldn't hear that from a man. It was refreshing to hear someone that I related to. And thru that has opened up my ability to trust God and to trust men. Now I can hear teaching from men. Now I trust God and now I trust men.
I appreciate your concern for my spiritual walk....I understand that you are passionate about your beliefs and that you don't want innocent sheep led astray. I can see how some of her teaching, especially if you go to a conference and/or read some of her books could be led into something less than doctrinal. Ultimately she has not (from my experience over 10 years) said to worship, pray to or believe in anyone other than the Most High God and His Son Jesus Christ.
It might curl your toes to know that I was led to Christ by Benny Hinn! ;) I don't subscribe to his way to thinking, but he was the one on TV talking about salvation and I accepted Christ in my living room Memorial day weekend 1995. It is relatively easy to eat the meat and spit out the bones. :)
Well, Benny Hinn is a prime example that God often works in spite of us, not through us. However you came to the Lord, I praise Him that you did.
I certainly didn't wish to imply that you are ignorant. My point was that anyone, myself included, can be led astray. I am not saying you have been, just warning you that JM is very subtle. Lies often come claoked in truth. If you say you are mature enough in your faith to spot them, I believ you. I have no reason not to. Please just take my words as words of caution out of concern, not of judgment on your spiritual walk or health.
Also, there are many people who have had to deal with the same kinds of things you have. What you describe is horrible and seems to be more common (or , at least, talked about more). Not everyone has a rosy childhood, I myself did not. What a testimony to the grace of God that He doesn't see us as others do.
Grace and peace to you.
_____________________________
<---- Respect the turtle neck
|
|
|
|
|
RE: joyce meyer - 6/19/2007 4:00:03 PM
|
|
|
shelaughed
Posts: 108
Joined: 4/2/2007
From: this spot on earth
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bro_Shane
Well, Benny Hinn is a prime example that God often works in spite of us, not through us. However you came to the Lord, I praise Him that you did.
I think that JM can (and has been) used in the same manner. Give God some credit, will ya? ;)
quote:
I certainly didn't wish to imply that you are ignorant. My point was that anyone, myself included, can be led astray. I am not saying you have been, just warning you that JM is very subtle. Lies often come claoked in truth. If you say you are mature enough in your faith to spot them, I believ you. I have no reason not to. Please just take my words as words of caution out of concern, not of judgment on your spiritual walk or health.
Oh I don't think you feel that way, I was only reitterating that I understand your passion for others and that its easy for people to be led....not so much astray (I don't agree with that)....but in a hyped-up gospel that says God is a sugar-daddy. God will do what you tell him to do. Absolutely I can see how some could get wrapped up into that. I think though after awhile though people come to their senses.
quote:
Also, there are many people who have had to deal with the same kinds of things you have. What you describe is horrible and seems to be more common (or , at least, talked about more). Not everyone has a rosy childhood, I myself did not. What a testimony to the grace of God that He doesn't see us as others do.
I remember us talking about our childhood experiences before. God has brought me thru alot. And I'll tell you this....I know why now. Before I wasn't saved. I was in situations that could have and should have killed me, but God saved me and kept me for His own! PRAISE HIM!! I "suffered a little while" but not eternal seperation.
Yes I have horrible stories from my childhood right up until the day I moved out, but I have a risen saviour who understands. If it weren't for TBN and Daystar.....I might not be here telling you this today. So for all the (so called) "evils" there is good to come out of it.
God has a will and a purpose and a plan for everyone. He can use a donkey, I'm sure He can bring good out of JM, TBN and others ministries. My faith is NOT in JM or any other teacher or their brand of "theology". My faith in in Christ alone.
I dunno, I guess I see all this conversation about this person is bad and that person is bad, my energy is so much better spent on praying that others see Gods truth in it and true it. I'm not The Holy Ghost, Jr. God will work it out. I trust Him that He holds the answers for those who are led astray.
Brother, you're a good man. I really appreciate you.
_____________________________
~~Shelly - http://shellysspot.blogspot.com
If you can't say AMEN, you outta say OUCH!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: joyce meyer - 7/26/2007 5:29:53 PM
|
|
|
dimples08
Posts: 44
Joined: 4/17/2007
Status: offline
|
Just curious...
I have read several posts about popular preachers/teachers like Paula White, Juanita Bynum and this one on Joyce Meyer. People for them and against them. And I just wonder has anyone PRAYED for them? I am no pro or con any of these people, but I will not spend my time ripping them apart with words. As with anyone, I pray for them. It takes no talent to rip someone apart but it takes a big person to lift them up in prayer. If you feel they are off the mark, then intercede on their behalf and pray that they will turn from their ways.
Yes, it is a matter of opinion on who likes who and if you don't like someone or what they preach then you certainly have the right to express it. But have you prayed for them? If you see a wrong, are you a part of the solution? If not, then what good is it?
If these people are as bad as I read about in these posts and people are following them...then we have some work to do. We need spend more time crying out to the Lord, fasting and praying...than posting and debating. God has the power to change things and people. If these people are preaching falsely yet, thousands of people are following them...imagine if they preached the true word of God!
Ezekiel 22: 23-30
23 Again the word of the LORD came to me: 24 "Son of man, say to the land, 'You are a land that has had no rain or showers [c] in the day of wrath.' 25 There is a conspiracy of her princes [d] within her like a roaring lion tearing its prey; they devour people, take treasures and precious things and make many widows within her. 26 Her priests do violence to my law and profane my holy things; they do not distinguish between the holy and the common; they teach that there is no difference between the unclean and the clean; and they shut their eyes to the keeping of my Sabbaths, so that I am profaned among them. 27 Her officials within her are like wolves tearing their prey; they shed blood and kill people to make unjust gain. 28 Her prophets whitewash these deeds for them by false visions and lying divinations. They say, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says'-when the LORD has not spoken. 29 The people of the land practice extortion and commit robbery; they oppress the poor and needy and mistreat the alien, denying them justice.
30 "I looked for a man among them who would build up the wall and stand before me in the gap on behalf of the land so I would not have to destroy it, but I found none. 31 So I will pour out my wrath on them and consume them with my fiery anger, bringing down on their own heads all they have done, declares the Sovereign LORD."
There is power in prayer, so let us pray for the lost. I suppose thats why the Bible says to watch and pray, not watch and talk. Talking is fine, but prayer is better. So let's continue to post and enjoy the "virtual chatter", but let's also pray as well.
Have a blessed day!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: joyce meyer - 7/26/2007 5:31:20 PM
|
|
|
earthless
Posts: 5518
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons get mugged and shot at...
Status: offline
|
People are ripping apart their teachings, which the apostle Paul commended the Bereans for doing to his own writings. Big difference.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
|
|
|
|
|
RE: joyce meyer - 7/26/2007 5:36:03 PM
|
|
|
dimples08
Posts: 44
Joined: 4/17/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
People are ripping apart their teachings, which the apostle Paul commended the Bereans for doing to his own writings. Big difference.
Okay. Doesn't mean you can not pray for them...which is my main point.
Have a blessed day!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: joyce meyer - 7/26/2007 7:19:42 PM
|
|
|
Kat_D
Posts: 1436
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
Status: offline
|
quote:
And I just wonder has anyone PRAYED for them?
There is already another thread in this folder on this subject. It is titled, "I've been Thinking" and it's just below this thread.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
|
|
|
|
|
RE: joyce meyer - 7/26/2007 7:32:47 PM
|
|
|
dimples08
Posts: 44
Joined: 4/17/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
quote:
And I just wonder has anyone PRAYED for them?
There is already another thread in this folder on this subject. It is titled, "I've been Thinking" and it's just below this thread.
Didn't see that. Thanks!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: joyce meyer - 7/26/2007 8:41:28 PM
|
|
|
earthless
Posts: 5518
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons get mugged and shot at...
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: dimples08
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
People are ripping apart their teachings, which the apostle Paul commended the Bereans for doing to his own writings. Big difference.
Okay. Doesn't mean you can not pray for them...which is my main point.
Have a blessed day!
Who says we don't pray for them? I pray that God opens their eyes to the falsehoods they are preaching and to the money they are stealing. And to the merchandising they are doing of the Gospel and the church.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
|
|
|
|
|
RE: joyce meyer - 7/27/2007 9:04:03 AM
|
|
|
Fritzpw_Admin
Posts: 7963
Joined: 2/28/2005
From: New Jersey
Status: offline
|
ADMIN'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
The whole purpose of these threads is to discuss and compare the teachings of these various ministry leaders.
It kind of goes beyond saying that as Christians we should be praying for them... that's like having a discussion about running and someone coming in saying... do you guys spend time tying your shoes?
If one doesn't like the discussion topic then one should stay out of the thread.
Proclomations that we should all just sit back and pray is really just disruptive to the topic.
If you want to pray for them in forums then I suggest you start a thread in the Prayer Requests and Praise folder.
Please do not reply to this message within the Community.
Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns.
Please do not send me PMs regarding this message.
Messages which disregard the words in red will be removed without warning and the poster may also be banned.
_____________________________
Fred "Fritz" Alberti
Director of Social Media
fritz@salemwebnetwork.com
Read today's Bible verse from my favorite online Bible
|
|
|
|
|
RE: joyce meyer - 7/27/2007 9:53:25 AM
|
|
|
Soxfan
Posts: 1558
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: dimples08
Just curious...
I have read several posts about popular preachers/teachers like Paula White, Juanita Bynum and this one on Joyce Meyer. People for them and against them. And I just wonder has anyone PRAYED for them?
First of all, I am not for or against THEM. However I am against their teachings that contradict Scripture. I am also against how they use Scripture to fatten their bank accounts
As others have stated here, I pray for them all the time. My primary prayer is that they would realize their false teaching, fall to their knees and ask for God's forgiveness, and return the money they've extorted from their followers.
quote:
I am no pro or con any of these people,
With all due respect, I can't understand how you cannot have an opinion on their theology. Do you not test their teaching against Scripture as the Bible commands us too?
Did you listen to the audio from one of Joyce Meyer's teaching? http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?currSection=&sermonID=260772221
where she teaches that Jesus suffered in Hell for our forgiveness. That's more than just a pro or con issue. That is rank HERESY
quote:
...but I will not spend my time ripping them apart with words.
Please provide us with examples where someone "ripped them apart" with words. If I'm not mistaken, THEIR OWN WORDS have been used to expose their false teaching.
quote:
As with anyone, I pray for them. It takes no talent to rip someone apart but it takes a big person to lift them up in prayer.
As said before, many here have stated that we pray for these people
quote:
If you feel they are off the mark, then intercede on their behalf and pray that they will turn from their ways.
That's only partially Biblically correct. In addition to praying for them, the Bible COMMANDS us to TEST ALL teaching against Scripture. That includes the Paula Whites, Benny Hinns, Joyce Meyers, TD Jakes, and Joel Osteens, and Rick Warrens of the world. Their teaching is not above that test. If it applied to Paul, it can also apply to them
quote:
Yes, it is a matter of opinion on who likes who and if you don't like someone or what they preach then you certainly have the right to express it.
I have absolutely no opinion on whether I "like" these people or not. I've never met them. I'm sure most of them are very nice people. However, that does not excuse their perversion of the Word of God.
quote:
If you see a wrong, are you a part of the solution?
Definately! I have seen a number of brothers and sisters realize after reading these forums, that these teachers are false.
quote:
If these people are as bad as I read about in these posts and people are following them...then we have some work to do. We need spend more time crying out to the Lord, fasting and praying...than posting and debating. God has the power to change things and people. If these people are preaching falsely yet, thousands of people are following them...imagine if they preached the true word of God!
Amen! You are absolutely correct. But in addition to crying out to the Lord, fasting, praying, I and others will continue to defend the Word of God from these false teachers. I've seen the fruit that results from it.
quote:
There is power in prayer, so let us pray for the lost. I suppose thats why the Bible says to watch and pray, not watch and talk. Talking is fine, but prayer is better. So let's continue to post and enjoy the "virtual chatter", but let's also pray as well.
Another big AMEN!
_____________________________
"This would be the first step in apostasy; men first forget the true, and then adore the false.".......C.H. Spurgeon
|
|
|
|
|
RE: joyce meyer - 7/27/2007 6:11:19 PM
|
|
|
JesusLoveNeverFails
Posts: 3
Joined: 7/24/2007
Status: offline
|
I love Joyce Meyer all her books, tapes, teachings -
I got BORN AGAIN, praise the Lord after listening to a tape from her series Grace, Grace and More Grace.
Nothing I've EVER heard her say goes against scripture and she is blessed because she is a blessing to others - God doesn't have a problem with His children having nice things.
Came here to see discussion of her books and was SHOCKED to find all of this - I wonder if everyone here also has problems with Kenneth Hagin, Kenneth Copeland, Jesse Duplantis, Jerry Savelle, T.D. Jakes, Perry Stone... just to name a FEW of those who have helped me in my walk with Christ and being taught by the Holy Spirit. Is this a denominational thing, not liking people that are non-denominational or different denominations, or spirit filled?
No offense intended, just sharing my opinion and actual experience with Joyce Meyer and her ministry to me.
_____________________________
"Love never fails..."
1 Corinthians 13:8
|
|
|
|
|
RE: joyce meyer - 7/27/2007 7:41:56 PM
|
|
|
Soxfan
Posts: 1558
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: JesusLoveNeverFails
Nothing I've EVER heard her say goes against scripture and she is blessed because she is a blessing to others - God doesn't have a problem with His children having nice things.
How about this? Is this against Scripture?
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?currSection=&sermonID=260772221
quote:
I wonder if everyone here also has problems with Kenneth Hagin, Kenneth Copeland, Jesse Duplantis, Jerry Savelle, T.D. Jakes, Perry Stone... just to name a FEW of those who have helped me in my walk with Christ and being taught by the Holy Spirit.
Yup. Most here have problems with every person you listed. There are even threads devoted to exposing their false teaching.
With all due respect, you may want to consider which Christ you are walking with. The Christ those charlatans teach is NOT the Christ of the Bible
quote:
Is this a denominational thing, not liking people that are non-denominational or different denominations, or spirit filled?
No, it's a discernment thing. No one ever said they didn't like them. For all I know they may be really nice people. However, the way they pervert the Gospel of Jesus Christ in order to fund their lavish lifestyles, now THAT I don't like
quote:
No offense intended, just sharing my opinion and actual experience with Joyce Meyer and her ministry to me.
I praise God that she has been able to impact your life. I pray that you will ask God to reveal to you what she really teaches
_____________________________
"This would be the first step in apostasy; men first forget the true, and then adore the false.".......C.H. Spurgeon
|
|
|
|
|
RE: joyce meyer - 7/27/2007 7:45:06 PM
|
|
|
Soxfan
Posts: 1558
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: JesusLoveNeverFails
Nothing I've EVER heard her say goes against scripture
She has said the following:
- You know, I was listening to a set of tapes by one man and he explained it like this, and I think this kind of gets the point across, he said, ‘Why do people have such a fit about God calling His creation, His man—not His whole creation, but His man—little gods? If He’s God, what’s He going to call them but the god-kind?’ I mean, if you as a human being have a baby, you call it a human kind. If cattle has another cattle, they call it cattle-kind. So, I mean, what’s God supposed to call us? Doesn’t the Bible say we’re created in his image? Now, you understand I am not saying you are God with a capital G."
(Joyce Meyer, "Authority and Opposition," Tape 1236. Article, "What Joyce Wants Joyce Gets")
- "Our words are containers of power. The power of life and death is in the tongue."
(Joyce Meyer, "What Does Your Future Hold?" TBN, May 24, 2004)
-"We can kill the plan of God for our lives with a negative confession."
(Joyce Meyer, "Mind, Mouth, Moods, and Attitudes," tape 2 of 4 the "Mouth")
"I want to say it again, be sure you're not killing God's good plan for your life by letting negative words come out of our mouth all of the time. I believe that wrong words affect our health. I would go so far as to say that there are people here today that you may be sick in your body simply because of speaking wrong words, negative words."
(Joyce Meyer, "Mind, Mouth, Moods, and Attitudes," tape 2 of 4 the "Mouth")
"Say this with me, 'I will not kill God's good plan for my life by speaking negative words."
(Joyce Meyer, "Mind, Mouth, Moods, and Attitudes," tape 2 of 4 the "Mouth")
"I want us to think again for a minute in closing about this thing about making sure that we're not killing God's plan with negative words."
(Joyce Meyer, "Mind, Mouth, Moods, and Attitudes," tape 2 of 4 the "Mouth")
Note: This is absurd to think that our words can kill a plan of an Almighty and Sovereign God. Think about it my friend, is this not the height of arrogance to think that our words can kill what God wants to do?
"If I speak death I'll eat death. If I speak life I'll eat life...I want you to say with me, 'I can destroy my life with my own words."
(Joyce Meyer, "Mind, Mouth, Moods, and Attitudes," tape 2 of 4 the "Mouth")
"I believe that words are containers for power and they either carry negative or positive power. They carry creative or destructive power. So, if I'm speaking right things I'm going to have right results. And if I'm speaking wrong things I'm going to have wrong results. And we do pay for our words. If, if I can say it like this, we eat our own words."
(Joyce Meyer, "Mind, Mouth, Moods, and Attitudes," tape 2 of 4 the "Mouth")
"When Jesus was experiencing the most intense pressure of His life, He decided that it would be wise not to open His mouth. Why? I believe it was because He realized that in His humanity, He would have been tempted to do the same thing you and I are tempted to do—doubt, question God, complain, or say something negative."
(Joyce Meyer, Enjoying Everyday Life Magazine, "Crossing Over to the Other Side" May 2004)
"Our Words Are Containers of Power: "Words are very important, and we will be held responsible for them. Proverbs 18:21 says, Death and life are in the power of the tongue…What we say has the power to impact our lives and the lives of others in a negative or a positive way. That’s why we need to learn to think about what we’re going to say before we say it."
(Joyce Meyer, Enjoying Everyday Life Magazine, "Think before You Speak" May 2004)
"Did you know that you can change the very course of your life by the type of words you speak?"
(Joyce Meyer, Enjoying Everyday Life Magazine, "Think before You Speak" May 2004)
"My teaching this weekend as usual is not going to be doctrinally religious. It's going to be something that you can use in your everyday life."
(Joyce Meyer, "Mind, Mouth, Moods, and Attitudes," tape 1 of 4 the "Mind")
"But you cannot throw out positive confession, and you cannot throw out all the faith teachers, and you cannot throw out positive thinking. And you cannot get rid of those kinds of things because they're in the Bible from one end of it to the other."
(Joyce Meyer, PFO Quarterly Journal, April-June 2002, pg. 6.
"The faith movement is right. You can't throw the faith movement out the window."
(Joyce Meyer, PFO Quarterly Journal, April-June 2002, pg. 14.)
"We need to have faith filled words going out of our mouth."
(Joyce Meyer, PFO Quarterly Journal, April-June 2002, pg. 14. Satan and Demons-Origin and Fall, side 2)
"Giving doesn't cost, it pays!"
(Joyce Meyer, Daystar Spring Share-A-Thon, March 2, 2004)
"You know that if you send these offerings into the ministry your gonna help us to keep reaching out to hurting people all over the world. What you make happen for somebody else God will make happen for you. Sow a seed and God will meet your need."
(Joyce Meyer, "Enjoying Everyday Life," June 24, 2004)
"Words are containers for power they carry creative or destructive power positive or negative power so we need to be speaking right things over our lives and about our futures if we expect to have good things happen because what you say then is what you probably end up having tomorrow.
(Joyce Meyer, audio-clip, "Bible Answer-man," Hank Hanegraaff, January, 2003)
"Poverty is probably one of the most unique spirits to watch. You can watch a spirit of poverty take over an entire neighborhood...And almost always with a poverty spirit, comes a spirit that just stinks. I mean, a poverty spirit just plain stinks. When I get people at the altar that got a poverty spirit on them they almost always have bad breath and body odor."
(Joyce Meyer, PFO Quarterly Journal, April-June 2002, page 6)
"You got a storage bin, a storage locker in heaven that has alot of stuff in it that needs to be claimed."
(Joyce Meyer, "What Does Your Future Hold" May 21, 2004)
"We need to claim as much of that inheritance as we possibly can...One of the things you can do right now is speak positive things about your future right now."
(Joyce Meyer, "What Does Your Future Hold" May 21, 2004)
"Sowing and reaping is a spiritual law...Sow generously and you will reap generously."
(Joyce Meyer, "What Does Your Future Hold" May 21, 2004)
"Sowing and reaping is a law," Meyer told the Buffalo audience. "If you sow, you will reap. I believe stingy people are very unhappy people. I want you to give your best offering. I believe one person could write one check to cover all of the expenses of this one conference."
(Article on Joyce Meyer, 11/17/2003, St. Louis Post Dispatch)
"God does not need our money. The giving thing is not for Him, it's for us," Meyer told a Detroit audience in September. "I should not have to work to try to support myself."
(Article on Joyce Meyer, 11/17/2003, St. Louis Post Dispatch)
_____________________________
"This would be the first step in apostasy; men first forget the true, and then adore the false.".......C.H. Spurgeon
|
|
|
|
|
RE: joyce meyer - 7/27/2007 8:50:06 PM
|
|
|
earthless
Posts: 5518
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons get mugged and shot at...
Status: offline
|
It deeply saddens me to see the people listed by JesusLoveNeverFails. They are all Word of Faith false teachers. People who teach doctrines and theologies that not only contradict Scripture, but present a Jesus and a God that is a twisted version of what the context of the Bible reveals.
My prayer continues to be that more and more people will cling to the authentic Word of God and not pay heed to these merchandisers of men and of the Gospel.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
|
|
|
|
|
RE: joyce meyer - 7/28/2007 12:21:27 AM
|
|
|
Bro_Shane
Posts: 1631
Joined: 8/4/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: JesusLoveNeverFails
I love Joyce Meyer all her books, tapes, teachings -
I got BORN AGAIN, praise the Lord after listening to a tape from her series Grace, Grace and More Grace.
Nothing I've EVER heard her say goes against scripture and she is blessed because she is a blessing to others - God doesn't have a problem with His children having nice things.
Did you not go to the link I posted in post 635? In her own words she says that Christ went to Hell and suffered at the hands of Satan to affect the atonement, which is a blatant lie. This isn't about having nice things, it's about teaching the word of God, which she doesn't do. Oh, she may use the Bible, but she doesn't teach it as it should be taught.
quote:
Came here to see discussion of her books and was SHOCKED to find all of this - I wonder if everyone here also has problems with Kenneth Hagin, Kenneth Copeland, Jesse Duplantis, Jerry Savelle, T.D. Jakes, Perry Stone... just to name a FEW of those who have helped me in my walk with Christ and being taught by the Holy Spirit.
I'm sorry to inform you that they are heretics of the highest (or lowest?) order. Copeland and Duplantis are among the worst scripture twisters in the world.
quote:
Is this a denominational thing, not liking people that are non-denominational or different denominations, or spirit filled?
No, if you ask us our denominations I'm sure you would see we all belong to different ones, or are non-denominational. Also, and I am sure you didn't mean it as such, it is offensive to say some are "spirit filled" because it implies that others are not. I have been "Spirit filled" since my salvation.
_____________________________
<---- Respect the turtle neck
|
|
|
|
|
RE: joyce meyer - 7/28/2007 4:35:23 AM
|
|
|
JesusLoveNeverFails
Posts: 3
Joined: 7/24/2007
Status: offline
|
No, if you ask us our denominations I'm sure you would see we all belong to different ones, or are non-denominational. Also, and I am sure you didn't mean it as such, it is offensive to say some are "spirit filled" because it implies that others are not. I have been "Spirit filled" since my salvation.
quote from Bro Shane
Bro Shane-
The last thing I ever meant to do was offend anyone with the term spirit-filled. I know some denominations teach it differently. I wasn't saying you weren't spirit filled after your salvation, just talking about the next experience I had later of receiving the gift of the Power of the Holy Spirit with evidence of tongues, a Pentacostal experience I think some would term it. I just didn't describe it clearly I think. Just describing my experience and wondering if that was the difference in thinking with posters. I was truly surprised to see so many with a problem with Joyce Meyer so was wondering if it was denominational or based on different experiences with Holy Spirit.
soxfan, earthless, bro shane
I am new to these forums, came her for help after being encouraged by some marriage topics and advice people were giving using the Word. Never saw this kind of disagreement and certainly never thought anyone would question my walk with Christ because of the teachers that I know God has used greatly in my life and walk with Him.
Soxfan said responding to me...
With all due respect, you may want to consider which Christ you are walking with. The Christ those charlatans teach is NOT the Christ of the Bible
With all due respect also, I think you should be careful with your words here, you can damage someone's faith if they were weak, as many might be who come here for help. Thankfully I KNOW who I am in Christ and all that I have been supernaturally delivered from since becoming a Christian in March 1997. I heard a Joyce Meyer teaching about the Christ of the Bible and got saved by the Christ of the Bible that night and have been walking with the Christ of the Bible ever since. I have attended many churches, most non-denominational, a few even Baptist and Methodist, none perfect, but all full of love and a desire to see peoples lives changed and SAVED by Jesus Christ.
I honestly hope you will consider what I said above in love and not question a person's salvation just because they interpret the Word differently than you do - that is why there are so many denominations, all who focus on different parts of the Bible and even have different interpretations - I happen to choose non-denominational/word of faith churches as my home. But I thought the one thing true Christians have in common is our belief in the same Christ, Jesus Christ who died on the cross to pay for our sins and rose again.
I would be foolish to think that I could change your minds about Joyce Meyer or anyone else. I can find scriptures to support all of the various examples that were listed as examples of her false teaching as I have listened to almost all of them before seeing your list. I know her to be meticulous about having scripture points in her teachings - as a teacher she is led by the Spirit and expounds on the Word, not going against it or twisting it. Afterall, that is what all sermons/teachings are by anyone who preaches.
But, here is just one Bible Study I did in completing a 2 year Bible School and in my own personal study of the Word. I don't present this to offend anyone, just showing you my understanding of the Word in one area Soxfan listed so often in the list of problems with Joyce Meyer attacking her teachings/faith - the area saying that our words are containers or that they have power... and I thank the Lord Jesus they do - whether you choose to speak the truth, God's Word, or the lies of the devil - is up to you, but you will affect change in your life either way.
Foundational Text, Romans 10:17
“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. ”
1.Faith for anything comes by hearing words. Believing in the devil’s word produces fear, believing in God’s Word produces faith.
(Ex. I got saved after hearing the Word, the Gospel, believing it, and praying the prayer of salvation using Words)
a.(Faith by hearing, it doesn’t come from reading the Word, that can only produce hope or a picture that makes you desire it)
b.Hear then believe, a principle throughout the Bible. When Jesus ministered it is always recorded in order of teaching &/or preaching then healing – Jesus knew faith/the Word had to come first.
2.Faith begins where the will of God is made known. Words create knowledge which forces a decision to believe/accept or not, then receive or not. The very moment you believe, you ARE (HAVE)
3. “So then faith cometh…” indicates active –
Cometh is italicized (added) so leave it out and “So then faith by hearing…”
4. Faith is in the Word and the Word is full of faith. (like wet & water!)
a.Romans 10:8 (but the word is nigh thee… the word of faith…)
b.Galatians 3:23-25 But before faith came…
The vehicle or container (word) by which God’s word travels in is Faith
c.Hebrews 11:3 - words are spiritual containers, you can put anything you want in them
d. When Jesus asked disciples if they wanted to go, Peter said…where else can we go, You’re the only one with words of eternal life.
e.When God wants to send faith, He does it by the Word (for ex. Jesus… the Word was God… sent His Word and healed them…)
f.Acts examples of WORDS – All came by HEARING WORDS
Acts 2:14 Opened mouth…spoke words,
v. 22 hear these words, v. 29 let me freely speak,
v. 37 Now when they heard this, v.40 words, v.41 words
Acts 4:4 How be it many of them which heard the word BELIEVED
Acts 8:5… and preached (meaning to say words) Christ,
v.6 gave heed…spake…hearing & seeing,
v12 Believed…preaching
v.14 Received…how? By hearing
Acts 10:33 to hear all things (words!),
v44 spake words (were saved, filled by hearing, not having hands layed on them)
5.Faith is in the Word and the Word is full of faith. (like wet & water!)
Acts 11:13-14 Peter… who shall tell thee words…whereby they shall be saved… and as I began to SPEAK, the Holy Ghost fell
Acts 13:48, When the Gentiles HEARD…glad, believed
Favorite…Acts 14:7
Acts 18:8 …hearing, believed…
6.Whatever you put in your heart in abundance, will come out in your words.
Matthew 12:34“O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.”
7. We are accountable for our words. The same creative power of God’s Word is in our words.
Mark 11:23 “For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.
God bless you all and thanks for taking the time to listen to my points.
_____________________________
"Love never fails..."
1 Corinthians 13:8
|
|
|
|
|
RE: joyce meyer - 7/28/2007 12:15:04 PM
|
|
|
Kat_D
Posts: 1436
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
Status: offline
|
quote:
Foundational Text, Romans 10:17
“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. ”
And what happens when you are hearing a false Gospel that is not in accordance with the Word of God? In what is your faith based then?
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
