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RE: joyce meyer - 12/13/2005 1:26:33 PM
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Soxfan
Posts: 1509
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From: Connecticut
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Many of those in the early church, including the 12 apostles DIED for the cause of Christ. Ms Meyer and others in the WOF camp have gotten FILTHY rich because of it.
Joyce Meyer says God has made her rich. Everything she has came from Him:
- French clock in the ministry's Fenton headquarters...$11,000
- Crownline boat docked behind her vacation home at Lake of the Ozarks...$105,000
- Pair of Dresden vases...$19,000
- Six French crystal vases...$18,500
- Dresden porcelain depicting the Nativity...$8,000
- Two curio cabinets...$12,000
- Porcelain of the Crucifixion...$5,700
- Pair of German porcelain vases...$5,200
- Malachite round table...$30,000
- Marble-topped antique commode...$23,000
- Custom office bookcase...$14,000
- Stations of the Cross in Dresden porcelain...$7,000
- Eagle sculpture on a pedestal...$6,300
- Another eagle made of silver...$5,000
- Numerous paintings...$1,000 to $4,000 each
- Conference table and 18 chairs...$49,000
- Woodwork in the offices of Meyer and her husband...$44,000
- Bathroom addition...$10,000
- 2003 Lexus SC sports car with a retractable top for Ms Meyer...$53,000
- 2001 Lexus sedan for her son Dan, 25...$46,000
- Mercedes-Benz S55 AMG for Meyer's husband...$107,000
- Canadair CL-600 Challenger jet corporate jet...$10 MILLION
- Her home...$2 million
- Houses for her four children...$2 million
.....- Distorting the Word of God and fleecing the flock for PROFIT......
PRICELESS!!
Actually not, she may pay a severe price when she stands before the Almighty God!!
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RE: joyce meyer - 12/13/2005 2:05:19 PM
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Fritzpw_Admin
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ADMIN'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
This thread is NOT about women's roles in ministry.
Posts on that topic have been removed for ignoring the instruction of a Moderator.
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RE: joyce meyer - 12/13/2005 3:08:18 PM
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christiancapitalist
Posts: 51
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Soxfan
Many of those in the early church, including the 12 apostles DIED for the cause of Christ. Ms Meyer and others in the WOF camp have gotten FILTHY rich because of it.
Joyce Meyer says God has made her rich. Everything she has came from Him:
- French clock in the ministry's Fenton headquarters...$11,000
- Crownline boat docked behind her vacation home at Lake of the Ozarks...$105,000
- Pair of Dresden vases...$19,000
- Six French crystal vases...$18,500
- Dresden porcelain depicting the Nativity...$8,000
- Two curio cabinets...$12,000
- Porcelain of the Crucifixion...$5,700
- Pair of German porcelain vases...$5,200
- Malachite round table...$30,000
- Marble-topped antique commode...$23,000
- Custom office bookcase...$14,000
- Stations of the Cross in Dresden porcelain...$7,000
- Eagle sculpture on a pedestal...$6,300
- Another eagle made of silver...$5,000
- Numerous paintings...$1,000 to $4,000 each
- Conference table and 18 chairs...$49,000
- Woodwork in the offices of Meyer and her husband...$44,000
- Bathroom addition...$10,000
- 2003 Lexus SC sports car with a retractable top for Ms Meyer...$53,000
- 2001 Lexus sedan for her son Dan, 25...$46,000
- Mercedes-Benz S55 AMG for Meyer's husband...$107,000
- Canadair CL-600 Challenger jet corporate jet...$10 MILLION
- Her home...$2 million
- Houses for her four children...$2 million
.....- Distorting the Word of God and fleecing the flock for PROFIT......
PRICELESS!!
Actually not, she may pay a severe price when she stands before the Almighty God!!
umm, source? please give the source where you are getting your info from.
_____________________________
My God can beat up your god
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RE: joyce meyer - 12/14/2005 8:54:13 AM
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Soxfan
Posts: 1509
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Connecticut
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quote:
ORIGINAL:
umm, source? please give the source where you are getting your info from.
Thanks howling wind, you beat me to it.
Yes, the St Louis Dispatch did a multiple day expose on Ms Meyer and her "ministry". It's always sad when secular outlets need to expose greedy, false teachers. That's supposed to be OUR job as the church body to be Bereans (defenders of the Word).
I'm sorry if anyone thinks I'm "...touching God's annointed".
Here are some follow up articles from earlier this year:
http://www.trinityfi.org/press/JoyceMeyer5.html
http://www.trinityfi.org/press/JoyceMeyer6.html
http://www.trinityfi.org/press/JoyceMeyer7.html
< Message edited by Soxfan -- 12/14/2005 9:04:16 AM >
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RE: joyce meyer - 12/14/2005 9:05:26 AM
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Bro_Shane
Posts: 1075
Joined: 8/4/2005
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Ahhh, the old "touch not God's annointed" banner. I never cease to be amazed at the scripture the WOF people will take out of context and twist. Truly, this has nothing to do with exposing any false teacher. I'm also quite weary of the word "annointed" being tossed around as if it is some magic word to ward of evil heresy hunters.
The more you look at it, WOF has more in common with witchcraft than Christianity.
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RE: joyce meyer - 12/14/2005 9:18:32 AM
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P31W
Posts: 2568
Joined: 6/13/2005
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christiancapitalist,
Thanks for asking the question. If you had not I would have. According to the article it's from the county assesor's office. That means its a matter of public record. It may even be possible for us to pull up this info on the internet if someone knows the correct link and if they put this much info on their site. I know where I live they "do not" go into this much detail but they give more than most of us would feel comfortable with. Considering any Tom, Dick or Harry could find out what type of house and fixtures you have. Theives have this info with the click of the mouse.
copy from one of the articles.
A Jefferson County assessor's list offers a glimpse into the value of many of the items: a $19,000 pair of Dresden vases, six French crystal vases bought for $18,500, an $8,000 Dresden porcelain depicting the Nativity, two $5,800 curio cabinets, a $5,700 porcelain of the Crucifixion, a pair of German porcelain vases bought for $5,200.
The decor includes a $30,000 malachite round table, a $23,000 marble-topped antique commode,
This is what blew me away!
toilet - $23,000 marble-topped antique commode
cross - $5,700 porcelain of the Crucifixion
*******************************
$30,000 malachite round table, a $23,000 marble-topped antique commode,
That's $53K for a table and a toilet. That's more than the average income of a family of 4 here where I live. The average income here is $34K per year.
_____________________________
“Tolerance is the virture of the man with no convictions.” G.K. Chesterton
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RE: joyce meyer - 12/14/2005 9:30:31 AM
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Ps103
Posts: 11539
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quote:
toilet - $23,000 marble-topped antique commode
Not that it makes it any better, but this is not a 23k toilet. It's a table with a marble top and drawers.
_____________________________
Fasten your seatbelts...it's going to be a bumpy night.
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RE: joyce meyer - 12/14/2005 9:35:28 AM
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P31W
Posts: 2568
Joined: 6/13/2005
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HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA I thought it was a toilet. I even wondered what kind of toilet paper one would use when sitting upon that royal throne! ROFLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL.
What do they call it a commode!? That's a toilet where I live.
_____________________________
“Tolerance is the virture of the man with no convictions.” G.K. Chesterton
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RE: joyce meyer - 12/14/2005 9:46:10 AM
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Ps103
Posts: 11539
Joined: 4/16/2005
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This is going off-topic, and it's all my fault, but I will answer--because you know I can't stop myself  .
A commode was a piece of furniture with drawers or shelves long before we were blessed with indoor potties (and yes, I *do* consider them to be a blessing!). Then they began making some specifically to hold the various items used for, uh, bathroom acitivities--like washbasins, pitchers, and of course, the slop jar--before there was a seperate room for them.
I guess the name of the furniture that held the jar carried over to the porcelain plumbing fixture, but I am not positive about that. Makes sense, to me, though.
I hope I didn't discommode anyone by straying off-topic.
But no, Joyce does not perch upon a 23k marble pot. I would imagine hers is even more expensive, and likely made of gold 
_____________________________
Fasten your seatbelts...it's going to be a bumpy night.
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RE: joyce meyer - 12/14/2005 10:22:31 AM
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howling wind
Posts: 174
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Texas, y'all...
Status: offline
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quote:
Thanks howling wind, you beat me to it.
Sorry Soxfan that I beat you to the punch, but I couldn't let christiancapitalist's challenge go without giving him the facts. You and I (and a few others) have been kindred spirits when it comes to exposing the lies of the WOF movement...
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RE: joyce meyer - 12/14/2005 1:18:21 PM
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caur
Posts: 232
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bro_Shane
Ahhh, the old "touch not God's annointed" banner. I never cease to be amazed at the scripture the WOF people will take out of context and twist. Truly, this has nothing to do with exposing any false teacher. I'm also quite weary of the word "annointed" being tossed around as if it is some magic word to ward of evil heresy hunters.
The more you look at it, WOF has more in common with witchcraft than Christianity.
I am no WOF'er but I am here to say that it is a warning that is not to be taken lightly. King David was very serious about it. We all know that story. I find the warning valid and would like to add to it. For those that delight in beating up on others, you would do well to remember Matthew 7 and take it to heart. Expose the falseness of the teaching with scripture but do yourself a favor and remember God's grace to you. I would not want to be in some of your shoes. If the teaching is false, fine, expose it. However, the person is loved by God, my brothers and sisters, remember that.
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RE: joyce meyer - 12/14/2005 1:45:35 PM
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Bro_Shane
Posts: 1075
Joined: 8/4/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: caur
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bro_Shane
Ahhh, the old "touch not God's annointed" banner. I never cease to be amazed at the scripture the WOF people will take out of context and twist. Truly, this has nothing to do with exposing any false teacher. I'm also quite weary of the word "annointed" being tossed around as if it is some magic word to ward of evil heresy hunters.
The more you look at it, WOF has more in common with witchcraft than Christianity.
I am no WOF'er but I am here to say that it is a warning that is not to be taken lightly. King David was very serious about it. We all know that story. I find the warning valid and would like to add to it. For those that delight in beating up on others, you would do well to remember Matthew 7 and take it to heart. Expose the falseness of the teaching with scripture but do yourself a favor and remember God's grace to you. I would not want to be in some of your shoes. If the teaching is false, fine, expose it. However, the person is loved by God, my brothers and sisters, remember that.
I appreciate the spirit of your post, but some things are absurd and the only way to show them for what they are is by letting the absurdity speak for its self by pointing it out.
I would also offer that since neither Christ nor any of the Apostles used the "don't touch the annointed" card it doesn't exist in any other context than that which it appears - as David relying on God and His methods and timing rather than himself.
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RE: joyce meyer - 12/14/2005 1:55:00 PM
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caur
Posts: 232
Joined: 4/12/2005
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So, what specifically are the false teachings of Joyce Meyer? What is your basis in scripture?
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RE: joyce meyer - 12/14/2005 2:15:22 PM
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Soxfan
Posts: 1509
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Connecticut
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quote:
ORIGINAL: caur
So, what specifically are the false teachings of Joyce Meyer? What is your basis in scripture?
From Joyce Meyer's 1991 booklet The Most Important Decision You Will Ever Make, an evangelistic work aimed at nonbelievers, she resounds the Word-Faith view of Christ’s atonement:
"During that time He entered hell, where you and I deserved to go (legally) because of our sin. He paid the price there ... no plan was too extreme ... Jesus paid on the cross and in hell” (pg. 35,).
“God rose up from His throne and said to demon powers tormenting the sinless Son of God, ‘Let Him go.’ Then the resurrection power of Almighty God went through hell and filled Jesus ... He was resurrected from the dead — the first born-again man” (pg. 36, underlining in the original).
“His spirit went to hell because that is where we deserved to go. Remember in the very beginning of this, I said, ‘When you die, only your body dies. The rest of you, your soul and spirit, goes either to heaven or hell’” (ibid.).
“There is no hope of anyone going to heaven unless they believe this truth I am presenting. You cannot go to heaven unless you believe with all your heart that Jesus took your place in hell” (ibid.).
“Jesus went to hell for you” (pg. 38, underlining in the original).
Not only is that FALSE teaching, it undermines that very nature of Jesus' atonement on the Cross. If I recall, one of his last words on the cross was "IT IS FINISHED"
______________________________________________________________________________________________
Want more?:
"We need to claim as much of that inheritance as we possibly can...One of the things you can do right now is speak positive things about your future right now."
(Joyce Meyer, "What Does Your Future Hold" May 21, 2004)
"I want us to think again for a minute in closing about this thing about making sure that we're not killing God's plan with negative words."
(Joyce Meyer, "Mind, Mouth, Moods, and Attitudes," tape 2 of 4 the "Mouth")
"If I speak death I'll eat death. If I speak life I'll eat life...I want you to say with me, 'I can destroy my life with my own words."
(Joyce Meyer, "Mind, Mouth, Moods, and Attitudes," tape 2 of 4 the "Mouth")
This is absurd to think that our words can kill a plan of an Almighty and Sovereign God. Is this not the height of arrogance to think that our words can kill what God wants to do?
More priceless nuggets:
"When Jesus was experiencing the most intense pressure of His life, He decided that it would be wise not to open His mouth. Why? I believe it was because He realized that in His humanity, He would have been tempted to do the same thing you and I are tempted to do—doubt, question God, complain, or say something negative."
(Joyce Meyer, Enjoying Everyday Life Magazine, "Crossing Over to the Other Side" May 2004)
"Did you know that you can change the very course of your life by the type of words you speak?"
(Joyce Meyer, Enjoying Everyday Life Magazine, "Think before You Speak" May 2004)
"My teaching this weekend as usual is not going to be doctrinally religious. It's going to be something that you can use in your everyday life."
(Joyce Meyer, "Mind, Mouth, Moods, and Attitudes," tape 1 of 4 the "Mind")
"You know that if you send these offerings into the ministry your gonna help us to keep reaching out to hurting people all over the world. What you make happen for somebody else God will make happen for you. Sow a seed and God will meet your need."
(Joyce Meyer, "Enjoying Everyday Life," June 24, 2004)
"God does not need our money. The giving thing is not for Him, it's for us," Meyer told a Detroit audience in September. "I should not have to work to try to support myself."
(Article on Joyce Meyer, 11/17/2003, St. Louis Post Dispatch)
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RE: joyce meyer - 12/14/2005 2:29:05 PM
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caur
Posts: 232
Joined: 4/12/2005
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Much better, thank you. That is what we need to see. However, I do not see scripture posted to dispute her views. What good is posting what she says and not post what God says?
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RE: joyce meyer - 12/14/2005 2:46:30 PM
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Soxfan
Posts: 1509
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Connecticut
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quote:
ORIGINAL: caur
Much better, thank you. That is what we need to see. However, I do not see scripture posted to dispute her views. What good is posting what she says and not post what God says?
I agree. I could take the time to provide Scripture. However, all one needs to do is read through this and other WoF related threads to see that many have provided Scripture to refute Ms Meyer and other WoF false teachers' doctrines.
On the contrary, you will never find Scripture to support these false teachings.
1. Her claims that Jesus went to hell and had to be "born again" needs no Scripture. It is so blatantly UNBIBLICAL that it speaks for itself!
2. And to teach that our words can "cancel" God's plans is an insult to God and further diminishes His sovereignty. That is a cornerstone of WoF theology, elevate man and reduce God to existing only to grant any of our demands.
3. Below is more of her false teaching along with Scripture to refute it:
Meyer has also declared on tape that she no longer is a sinner:
“I’m going to tell you something folks, I didn’t stop sinning until I finally got it through my thick head I wasn’t a sinner anymore. And the religious world thinks that’s heresy and they want to hang you for it. But the Bible says that I’m righteous and I can’t be righteous and be a sinner at the same time ... All I was ever taught to say was, ‘I’m a poor, miserable sinner.’ I am not poor, I am not miserable and I am not a sinner. That is a lie from the pit of hell. That is what I was and if I still am then Jesus died in vain. Amen?”
The Apostle John says, “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us” (1 John 1:8). It is Christ’s righteousness imparted to us, not ours, that makes us righteous.
< Message edited by Soxfan -- 12/14/2005 2:50:42 PM >
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RE: joyce meyer - 12/14/2005 2:56:55 PM
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caur
Posts: 232
Joined: 4/12/2005
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How is the following wrong, according to the word of God?
“Jesus went to hell for you” (pg. 38, underlining in the original).
Aren't the words for the grave Sheol or Hades (Hebrew and Greek, respectively), translated as hell? How, to you, is the above Joyce Meyer statement incorrect? Did Jesus not die? Was He not in the tomb for 3 days? Doesn't the Bible say that Christ descended down into the earth into Hades in Ephesians 4:9? According to Ephesians 4:9, Jesus did go to hell, specifically Hades, for me. How is this a false teaching?
EDIT: I see that you added scripture to refute a personal belief of Joyce that is in error. That is what I am looking for. I editted my post to reflect your addition in edit.
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RE: joyce meyer - 12/14/2005 3:06:02 PM
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Soxfan
Posts: 1509
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: caur
How is the following wrong, according to the word of God?
“Jesus went to hell for you” (pg. 38, underlining in the original).
Aren't the words for the grave Sheol or Hades (Hebrew and Greek, respectively), translated as hell? How, to you, is the above Joyce Meyer statement incorrect? Did Jesus not die? Was He not in the tomb for 3 days? Doesn't the Bible say that Christ descended down into the earth into Hades in Ephesians 4:9? According to Ephesians 4:9, Jesus did go to hell, specifically Hades, for me. How is this a false teaching?
EDIT: I see that you added scripture to refute a personal belief of Joyce that is in error. That is what I am looking for. I editted my post to reflect your addition in edit.
She and others (Copeland, Osteen, Dollar, etc) teach that Jesus' work was not finished on the Cross. They claim that his "wormy" spirit had to descend to the depths of HELL (not Hades or Sheol) and fight with the devil. As a result of this ficticious battle with the devil, he became the first born again man.
Jesus went into Hades, where the faithful were, not hell, where the wicked are punished. Ms Meyer and other word of faith teachers do not believe in his victory on the cross but in a FICTICIOUS battle in hell with the devil. Jesus REALLY conquered Satan and crushed Satan's head on the cross not in hell.
Colossians 2:15: “Having disarmed principalities and powers, he made a public spectacle of them triumphing over them in it.” This victory happened on the cross (v.14), so what is Christ doing suffering in Hell by these same principalities and powers, as claimed. This doctrine is dangerous and affects many others. If Jesus went to hell, then Jesus did not speak the truth buy saying IT IS FINISHED. The death of Christ on the cross is then insufficient, not having the power by itself to save anyone and Paul could not have said what he said about it that he preached Christ crucified for salvation..
Neither does Scripture say “Jesus took the keys of hell and death from Satan.” This again is a false word faith teaching. Neither did Satan steal the keys from Adam as the word faith teachers espouse, because Adam did not have them.
Here’s what the Scripture says: Rev. 1:18: “I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death. Where does it say he took them? He possessed them. Again they go beyond what is written with their imagination and make this up. This is a great Bible myth. In Rev. 1:18 The word is Hades, not hell; the key is the emblem of power and authority. Christ can both save and destroy, can kill and make alive. Just as Jesus said that no man takes his life from him, he lays it down himself. Death is still under his dominion, and he can recall the dead whenever he pleases. He is the resurrection and the life.
< Message edited by Soxfan -- 12/14/2005 3:08:45 PM >
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RE: joyce meyer - 12/14/2005 3:17:18 PM
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caur
Posts: 232
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
"You know that if you send these offerings into the ministry your gonna help us to keep reaching out to hurting people all over the world. What you make happen for somebody else God will make happen for you. Sow a seed and God will meet your need."
(Joyce Meyer, "Enjoying Everyday Life," June 24, 2004)
The above is one of my all-time sticky points with any preacher, pastor, or teacher. God will always meet the needs of His people. When we are obedient to Christ, there is nothing God won't do for us in accordance with His plan for our lives. In fact, here is the scripture that God gives us.
Mat 6:29 Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was adorned like one of these!
Mat 6:30 If that's how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and thrown into the furnace tomorrow, won't He do much more for you--you of little faith?
Mat 6:31 So don't worry, saying, 'What will we eat?' or 'What will we drink?' or 'What will we wear?'
Mat 6:32 For the idolaters eagerly seek all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them.
Mat 6:33 But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things will be provided for you.
Jer 29:11 For I know the plans I have for you"--this is the LORD's declaration--"plans for your welfare, not for disaster, to give you a future and a hope.
Jer 29:12 You will call to Me and come and pray to Me, and I will listen to you.
Jer 29:13 You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart.
So, the truth about prosperity can be summed up in Matthew 6:33 and Jeremiah 29:11-13 and many other sources in the Word. I, due to my personal testimony, know that material goods mean very little and that a deeper relationship with God and Jesus through the Holy Spirit is the greatest treasure any human could ever hope for. I have been poor and rich (well, ok, middle-class, but to me that is rich, rich, rich, as far as material goods go) and I have seen that none of it means a thing without Jesus.
I do agree that Joyce has many false teachings but she also says things that are very helpful for Christian living. We should look to the word of God and our faith in Christ as our source so that we can rightly divide the word of truth and be able to see truth and error in every source and not have to miss out on the teachings of the Holy Spirit, who teaches each one of us individually, ministering to all of our needs. God teaches me every moment of every day, from every source in my life. When you trust God and His word, He teaches us every thing. I am not saying to support her ministry or anything of the sort. I am saying that Jesus will teach His people everything.
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