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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/23/2009 7:02:20 PM
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andresamson83
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Sir, Ive only been a Christian for about 2 years so i know i dont have your experience and possibly faith (that i appreciate), but I think the Lord can show things to anybody and heres what he showed me:
Romans five has 3 references (verses 15, 16, 18) to Salvation being a free gift. I know that the moment I chose The The Lord as my Lord, and the savior as my savior, I was saved forever because of the love of God manifested towards me in that while i was yet a sinner, Christ died for me. I am baptized and now in fellowship with other baptized believers gathered to the name of our Lord Jesus Christ worshiping in heaven, but meeting in baddeck, nova scotia. that baptism to me was only to show others outwardly what happened inside months before. God's love is taking me to heaven, and I wont be there because of anything i've done because then I could boast. But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ. And to God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.
Regarding the passage in Mark 16, He said : "he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved"
Ill try to give you an analogy:For lack of better analogies, its like saying:
He that practices piano 10 hours a day for 50 years, wowing many during his concerts, will be a good piano player. Because what makes the person good is his practice, not his concerts. its pretty much given that hes going to have concerts before other people.
And so when we believe that Jesus ALREAdY did the finished work to save us: Then we're saved (like He could say, "It is finished"). Its just a given that we should immediately get baptized, telling the world about Gods grace so that they can have what we have.
So "believeth and is baptized" are mentioned together because we shouldnt have one without the other. Thats what I believe the Lord wanted to express. Heres another rendering.
He that believeth, and because he's believed obviously he will be baptized, shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
"For though thou wash thee with nitre, and take thee much soap, yet thine iniquity is marked before me, saith the Lord GOD." Jeremiah 2:22
What can wash away my Stain?
"the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. " 1 John 1:7
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/23/2009 10:11:20 PM
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greatdivide46
Posts: 1583
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quote:
ORIGINAL: andresamson83
Romans 5 has three references (verses 15, 16, 18) to salvation being a free gift.
Well, then, salvation must be a free gift.
quote:
I know that the moment I chose the Lord as my Lord, and the Savior as my Savior, I was saved forever because of the love of God manifested towards me in that while i was yet a sinner, Christ died for me.
I'm not discounting your experience, but I have found that when my experiences don't line with scripture, it's my experiences have been faulty, not scripture.
quote:
I am baptized and now in fellowship with other baptized believers gathered to the name of our Lord Jesus Christ worshiping in heaven, but meeting in Baddeck, Nova Scotia.
I'm glad you're in fellowship with other believers. That's wonderful!
quote:
That baptism to me was only to show others outwardly what happened inside months before.
That may be the problem. That's what your baptism was to you. I think baptism is something altogether different to God.
quote:
God's love is taking me to heaven, and I won't be there because of anything I've done because then I could boast. But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ. And to God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.
Amen!! The same is true for me and I heartily say Amen to what you've said here.
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greatdivide46
<===avatar is US soldiers in Iraq at sunset
You are to rise in the presence of the elderly and honor the old. -- Leviticus 19:32
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/24/2009 1:35:58 AM
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Tagurit
Posts: 89
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quote:
ORIGINAL: andresamson83
Sir, Ive only been a Christian for about 2 years so i know i dont have your experience and possibly faith (that i appreciate), but I think the Lord can show things to anybody and heres what he showed me:
Romans five has 3 references (verses 15, 16, 18) to Salvation being a free gift. I know that the moment I chose The The Lord as my Lord, and the savior as my savior, I was saved forever because of the love of God manifested towards me in that while i was yet a sinner, Christ died for me.
That is an awesome humble attitude! Don't ever think that just because you are only 2 years old in Christ that you cannot possess more spiritual discernment that someone far older. God has obviously given you great insight. I know that two years after I had accepted Christ I did not have your insight.
I think your assessment is absolutely correct. Believer's Baptism is a testimony to all of the decision you have made. If we had to do it to be saved, it would be a work. God is the only one who can save us and He did this by the Blood of Christ and His resurrection. A little chlorinated water or river water is not going to cut it.
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/24/2009 6:33:50 AM
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greatdivide46
Posts: 1583
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From: Opp, Alabama
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tagurit
Believer's Baptism is a testimony to all of the decision you have made. If we had to do it to be saved, it would be a work.
I don't understand why it's a work simply because we have to do it to be saved. Does that mean that anything we have to do to be saved is a work?
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greatdivide46
<===avatar is US soldiers in Iraq at sunset
You are to rise in the presence of the elderly and honor the old. -- Leviticus 19:32
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/24/2009 7:08:23 AM
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Tagurit
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quote:
ORIGINAL: greatdivide46
quote:
ORIGINAL: Tagurit
Believer's Baptism is a testimony to all of the decision you have made. If we had to do it to be saved, it would be a work.
I don't understand why it's a work simply because we have to do it to be saved. Does that mean that anything we have to do to be saved is a work?
God is the one who saves--He gives this free "gift" to us without us working for it or taking some action.
As has been said many times in this thread, Baptism is something we should do just like many other things God commands we do. However God's choice to save us is His decision based on our belief--Not based on our physical act of baptism.
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/24/2009 9:44:58 AM
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Eutychus
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quote:
ORIGINAL: greatdivide46
quote:
ORIGINAL: Tagurit
Believer's Baptism is a testimony to all of the decision you have made. If we had to do it to be saved, it would be a work.
I don't understand why it's a work simply because we have to do it to be saved. Does that mean that anything we have to do to be saved is a work?
Jesus said that the only work of God is to believe in Christ.
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Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/24/2009 10:25:24 AM
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greatdivide46
Posts: 1583
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tagurit
God is the one who saves--He gives this free "gift" to us without us working for it or taking some action.
So, when Paul says that "with the mouth one confesses and is saved," he's not talking about an action we have to take?
When Paul says, "with the heart one believes and is justified" he's not talking about an action we need to take?
When Ananias told Saul, "Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name," he wasn't really telling Saul that he had to take any action?
When Peter told his audience on the day of Pentecost, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jeus Christ for the firgoveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit," he wasn't really telling then that they had to take any action?
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greatdivide46
<===avatar is US soldiers in Iraq at sunset
You are to rise in the presence of the elderly and honor the old. -- Leviticus 19:32
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/27/2009 3:44:12 AM
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Tagurit
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quote:
ORIGINAL: greatdivide46
quote:
ORIGINAL: Tagurit
God is the one who saves--He gives this free "gift" to us without us working for it or taking some action.
So, when Paul says that "with the mouth one confesses and is saved," he's not talking about an action we have to take?
When Paul says, "with the heart one believes and is justified" he's not talking about an action we need to take?
When Ananias told Saul, "Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name," he wasn't really telling Saul that he had to take any action?
When Peter told his audience on the day of Pentecost, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jeus Christ for the firgoveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit," he wasn't really telling then that they had to take any action?
You are picking "nits" on this issue. Again, you are attributing some work WE must do in order to be saved. I attribute the saving work of Redemption to Christ alone. I believe and trust Christ; therefore HE saves me.
At that very moment in time I believed and accepted Christ, I am saved. It is clear that having this Faith and then subsequently accepting Christ is NOT a work.
John 3:36
36"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
You seem to be trying to add your will to the saving process somehow as if that would enable to Christ to "better" save you?
Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/27/2009 7:56:07 AM
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greatdivide46
Posts: 1583
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tagurit
You are picking "nits" on this issue. Again, you are attributing some work WE must do in order to be saved. I attribute the saving work of Redemption to Christ alone. I believe and trust Christ; therefore HE saves me. I, too, attribute the saving work of redemption to Christ alone. I believe and trust Christ as well; therefore He saves me, too.
quote:
At that very moment in time I believed and accepted Christ, I am saved. It is clear that having this Faith and then subsequently accepting Christ is NOT a work. I don't believe there is a single example of anyone in Scripture becoming a Christian at the very moment in time that they believed and accepted Christ. I do agree that having faith and then subsequently accepting Christ is not a work. Therefore, confession, repentance and baptism are not works either since they are the same kind of conditions for salvation that faith is.
quote:
John 3:36
36"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
You seem to be trying to add your will to the saving process somehow as if that would enable to Christ to "better" save you? Not at all. Only God can save. That fact that He wants me to obey Him in some aspects before He does is not burdensome to me.
quote:
Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Amen!! Great verse! I believe it with all my heart.
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greatdivide46
<===avatar is US soldiers in Iraq at sunset
You are to rise in the presence of the elderly and honor the old. -- Leviticus 19:32
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/27/2009 1:19:33 PM
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andresamson83
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quote:
I don't believe there is a single example of anyone in Scripture becoming a Christian at the very moment in time that they believed and accepted Christ. I do agree that having faith and then subsequently accepting Christ is not a work. Therefore, confession, repentance and baptism are not works either since they are the same kind of conditions for salvation that faith is.
I know this passage is not an example and may be refuted but I'll give it a try:
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."-John 5:24
here it says that when we believe we are immediately passed from death unto life (made a Christian)
Heres one later in the scripture:
Acts 16:30-31:
"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (which doesnt mean that if he gets saved, so will his familly. It means that if he believes in the Lord, he'll be saved, and the same thing goes for his familly)
He was baptized after this
now ill make a statement that I believe unless proven wrong
I dont think theres one example in Scripture describing someone being baptized before believing (unless its a false conversion). That because we believe, are saved and subsequently are baptized
But I may be wrong well see what you guys find
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/27/2009 1:38:13 PM
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greatdivide46
Posts: 1583
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From: Opp, Alabama
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quote:
ORIGINAL: andresamson83
I know this passage is not an example and may be refuted but I'll give it a try:
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."-John 5:24
here it says that when we believe we are immediately passed from death unto life (made a Christian)
Here is says that He that hears my word and believes on him who sent me has everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation, but is passed from death to life. That's what it actually says. It does not say "that when we believe we are immediately passed from death unto life." That is an interpretation and it may not be a bad one, but still an interpretation nonetheless.
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greatdivide46
<===avatar is US soldiers in Iraq at sunset
You are to rise in the presence of the elderly and honor the old. -- Leviticus 19:32
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/27/2009 1:45:05 PM
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greatdivide46
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quote:
ORIGINAL: andresamson83
Heres one later in the scripture:
Acts 16:30-31:
"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (which doesnt mean that if he gets saved, so will his familly. It means that if he believes in the Lord, he'll be saved, and the same thing goes for his familly)
He was baptized after this
now ill make a statement that I believe unless proven wrong
I dont think theres one example in Scripture describing someone being baptized before believing (unless its a false conversion). That because we believe, are saved and subsequently are baptized I think you are correct. Baptism can't take place until a person believes.
_____________________________
greatdivide46
<===avatar is US soldiers in Iraq at sunset
You are to rise in the presence of the elderly and honor the old. -- Leviticus 19:32
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/28/2009 7:35:34 AM
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Tagurit
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quote:
ORIGINAL: greatdivide46
quote:
ORIGINAL: andresamson83
Heres one later in the scripture:
Acts 16:30-31:
"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (which doesnt mean that if he gets saved, so will his familly. It means that if he believes in the Lord, he'll be saved, and the same thing goes for his familly)
He was baptized after this
now ill make a statement that I believe unless proven wrong
I dont think theres one example in Scripture describing someone being baptized before believing (unless its a false conversion). That because we believe, are saved and subsequently are baptized I think you are correct. Baptism can't take place until a person believes.
Yes, I agree. You must believe first but when you first believe---you are saved.
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/28/2009 9:07:13 AM
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greatdivide46
Posts: 1583
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tagurit
Yes, I agree. You must believe first but when you first believe---you are saved.
That's certainly one view point. However, since I can find no scriptural backing for that view point, I really can't accept it.
_____________________________
greatdivide46
<===avatar is US soldiers in Iraq at sunset
You are to rise in the presence of the elderly and honor the old. -- Leviticus 19:32
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/28/2009 1:39:11 PM
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andresamson83
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Im not positive if this will clarify anything but here are a couple verses with the word "saved" in it
Acts 2:21 - "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved."
Acts 15:1 - "And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved."
Acts 15:11 - "But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they."
Romans 8:24 - "For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?"
Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
Romans 13:11 - "for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed."
Ephesians 2:8 - "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
1 Corinthians 15:1-3 - "Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;"
So my point is that when we believe, hope, trust,have faith, recieve, bow to His Lordship:we are saved.
and saved people go to heaven:
"And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it."
By the way sorry about the colours I was just having fun with that
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/28/2009 2:55:47 PM
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greatdivide46
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Here are some verses you missed:
So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved (Acts 2:41, 47).
Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good consience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ (1 Peter 3:21).
Certainly all the verses you quoted are true and I believe every one of them. But I cannot just ignore the verses I quoted. I believe them, too.
_____________________________
greatdivide46
<===avatar is US soldiers in Iraq at sunset
You are to rise in the presence of the elderly and honor the old. -- Leviticus 19:32
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/29/2009 5:24:44 AM
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Tagurit
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quote:
ORIGINAL: andresamson83
Im not positive if this will clarify anything but here are a couple verses with the word "saved" in it
Acts 2:21 - "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved."
Acts 15:1 - "And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved."
Acts 15:11 - "But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they."
Romans 8:24 - "For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?"
Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
Romans 13:11 - "for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed."
Ephesians 2:8 - "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
1 Corinthians 15:1-3 - "Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;"
So my point is that when we believe, hope, trust,have faith, recieve, bow to His Lordship:we are saved.
and saved people go to heaven:
"And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it."
By the way sorry about the colours I was just having fun with that
Those are great verses by the way. Especially Romans 10:9 which closes the book for the matter as far as I am concerned. I don't think it is going to convince him though as these same verses have been presented many times over....
GreatDivide, let me ask you a hypothetical question. Lets say a person was sky-diving and knew they were NOT a Christian. When they pulled the cord--guess what no chute!--In the few seconds they had left, they accept that Christ died for them and believed on Him. Where do they end up???
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/29/2009 7:19:59 AM
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greatdivide46
Posts: 1583
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tagurit
Those are great verses by the way. Especially Romans 10:9 which closes the book for the matter as far as I am concerned. I don't think it is going to convince him though as these same verses have been presented many times over.... Yes, and I have never tried to discount those verses. Everytime they are presented I have said that they are true and I believe them.
quote:
GreatDivide, let me ask you a hypothetical question. Lets say a person was sky-diving and knew they were NOT a Christian. When they pulled the cord--guess what no chute!--In the few seconds they had left, they accept that Christ died for them and believed on Him. Where do they end up???
Well, since its a hypothetical question, my hypothetical answer is that hypothetically they would end up in heaven.
_____________________________
greatdivide46
<===avatar is US soldiers in Iraq at sunset
You are to rise in the presence of the elderly and honor the old. -- Leviticus 19:32
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/29/2009 9:19:09 AM
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Tagurit
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quote:
ORIGINAL: greatdivide46
quote:
ORIGINAL: Tagurit
quote:
GreatDivide, let me ask you a hypothetical question. Lets say a person was sky-diving and knew they were NOT a Christian. When they pulled the cord--guess what no chute!--In the few seconds they had left, they accept that Christ died for them and believed on Him. Where do they end up???
Well, since its a hypothetical question, my hypothetical answer is that hypothetically they would end up in heaven.
This would seem to confirm that baptism is a commandment we definitely should follow but that it is not an essential element of God's saving us from eternal damnation. Would that be a correct understanding of your stance?
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/29/2009 12:10:51 PM
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greatdivide46
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tagurit
This would seem to confirm that baptism is a commandment we definitely should follow but that it is not an essential element of God's saving us from eternal damnation. Would that be a correct understanding of your stance?
No, not exactly. Pretty close, though. Unfortunately the Bible does not address hypothetical situations, so I have to make my best guess when it comes to hypothetical questions. But when it comes to what the Bible actually teaches, I don't have to guess. The Bible teaches that there is a definite link between baptism and salvation.
_____________________________
greatdivide46
<===avatar is US soldiers in Iraq at sunset
You are to rise in the presence of the elderly and honor the old. -- Leviticus 19:32
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/29/2009 6:10:46 PM
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andresamson83
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"For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
22Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him."
1 peter 3:18-22
You mentioned some of these verses. I am honestly not asking this question because i have an answer but can you exlpain me please what the link is between these verses and whats the message peter is putting across. please? I enjoy the first and last verse but the ones in between??
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/29/2009 11:12:31 PM
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greatdivide46
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Well, I admit I don't know for sure what verse 19, 20 and 22 are referring to. However, I do have some thoughts on verse 21 and what it's saying about baptism.
Next to Mark 16:16 this is the most straightforward and unequivocal statement in the New Testament concerning the link between baptism and salvation. It plainly and clearly says, "Baptism now saves you." Can't get much clearer than that in my mind. In verse 20 Peter says concerning Noah's ark, "In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water." In some way this water, or this salvation through water, is an analogy of the fact that baptism saves people in the New Testament age. There is much more that I could say about this verse, but this is a good start.
I know I may not have answered your question, but other than the relationship between baptism and salvation, I'm not for sure what message Peter is putting across.
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greatdivide46
<===avatar is US soldiers in Iraq at sunset
You are to rise in the presence of the elderly and honor the old. -- Leviticus 19:32
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/30/2009 6:07:55 PM
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andresamson83
Posts: 20
Joined: 12/15/2008
Status: offline
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ok well, I too as well as you, have an oppinion about verse 20 (understand, what i have to say about it may not be valid because i dont understand the context)
The word saved in the Bible, as we all enjoy, means rescued, protected, delivered, preserved etc... Just as we have experienced all of those things regarding our sin: what it was doing to us and where it was taking us. But we can also be saved from other things.
1 Timothy 4:16 says:
"Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine;continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee."
like we both know here hes not saying that by remembering the apostle's teaching we'll be saved from hell. but rather saved or preserved from false doctrine to better obey the Lord.
Allow me to suggest, and its only a suggestion. That in the verse we're talking about in 1 Peter 3: Its saying rather that baptism preserves us from the world . Just before the verse, its talking about living righteous before the ungodly so that they cant accuse us, even falsly, because of the fact that everybody knows that we live righteous. getting baptized would definetly help our testimony and living righteous before others.
Notice the link between baptism saving us, and water saving Noah's family. Because what saved noah's family from the storm obviously wasnt the water but the arc. Our arc is Christ, the Shelter from the storm we deserved because of our many sins.
Now the water did save them, but from the world, as it lifted them off the earth and separated them from it and its ungodly living. Even so we should get baptized, distinctly separating us from the world and identifying us with the Lord Jesus and living for Him before them.
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 5/1/2009 7:18:44 AM
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greatdivide46
Posts: 1583
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Opp, Alabama
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: andresamson83
Notice the link between baptism saving us, and water saving Noah's family. Because what saved noah's family from the storm obviously wasnt the water but the arc. Our arc is Christ, the Shelter from the storm we deserved because of our many sins.
I agree completely that "our arc is Christ, the Shelter from the storm we deserved because of our many sins." So because I believe that I don't believe that baptism itself saves us just like the water itself is not what saved Noah's family. We are saved by Christ through baptism just like Noah's family was saved by the ark through water.
quote:
Now the water did save them, but from the world, as it lifted them off the earth and separated them from it and its ungodly living. Even so we should get baptized, distinctly separating us from the world and identifying us with the Lord Jesus and living for Him before them. What you're saying here is not substantially different from what I believe, although I wouldn't put it in those terms.
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greatdivide46
<===avatar is US soldiers in Iraq at sunset
You are to rise in the presence of the elderly and honor the old. -- Leviticus 19:32
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 5/4/2009 2:44:28 AM
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Tagurit
Posts: 89
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: greatdivide46
I agree completely that "our arc is Christ, the Shelter from the storm we deserved because of our many sins." So because I believe that I don't believe that baptism itself saves us just like the water itself is not what saved Noah's family. We are saved by Christ through baptism just like Noah's family was saved by the ark through water.
We are saved by Christ through Faith not baptism.
John 6:40
40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day."
I understand that you are under the impression that it is a necessary step, but I would ask you to consider something...
If this was so important a step and necessary, do you not think that Christ would have mentioned it at least once in one of the four gospels??? He does not by the way.....
It is a commandment (like many others) that we do it, but it is NOT a component for justification.
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