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regarding Cain - 10/7/2008 12:15:43 PM
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applemom
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Been thinking about Cain,
I know the idea is Cain should have been aware of the requirements for the offering so he is without exscuse but....where are the scriptures that say what the requirement was?
Is it the verse that says God made them animal skin clothes? Is that where the first blood sacrifice started?
Thank you.
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RE: regarding Cain - 10/7/2008 12:19:57 PM
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applemom
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Somehow they knew to bring the offering I realize there is no verse that says, and God said bring an offering.... I guess I am just obsessing about why God accepted Abels offering and not Cains. God said that man would have to work the ground so Cain was being obedient, he must have worked hard in order to have produce?
Why was the blood sacrifice neede even then and when did God tell the boys?
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RE: regarding Cain - 10/7/2008 12:26:30 PM
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greatdivide46
Posts: 1190
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It may not be what Cain brought as a sacrifice as much as it was his attitude that caused God to reject his sacrifice. If God told the boys what to bring as a sacrifice, it's not recorded in scripture, as far as I know. Unless some of God's instructions concerning sacrifices can be considered retroactive, I suppose.
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greatdivide46
SFC, USA (Ret)
The reflections of the heart belong to man, but the answer of the tongue is from the LORD -- Proverbs 16:1
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RE: regarding Cain - 10/7/2008 12:38:22 PM
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1love1God1way
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It was about attitude, IMO.
Abel brought the best that he had to God . . . the top-notch stuff.
I imagine Cain's was more like leftovers . . . the stuff he didn't really want or need as much.
I don't think it had anything to do with vegetation vs. meat.
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love.ben
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RE: regarding Cain - 10/7/2008 12:58:39 PM
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LCannon
Posts: 1260
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From: Lebanon, OR
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Genesis 4-History of Cain/Abel.
Genesis 3:21, Hebrews 9:22, 23-"Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins. Thus it was necessary for the sketches of the heavenly things to be purified with these rites, but the heavenly things themselves need better sacrifices than these."
How it they know what was a acceptable sacrifice? Genesis 3:21 looking forward to Jesus.
How did they know to sacrifice? Genesis 3:21 again and by God's example Adam/Eve taught their children and so. Cain had no excuse other then arrogance.
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"It may be that when the angels go about their task of praising God they play
only Bach. I am sure, however, that when they are together en famille they
play Mozart and then too our dear Lord listens with special pleasure."(Karl Barth)
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RE: regarding Cain - 10/7/2008 2:34:30 PM
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Bluethread
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This is one of the things we derive from context. The animal skins, Abel herding sheep even though they had only been told that they can eat the herbs of the field, and implications from later writings. This is how we come up with several principles. We must understand that these things might be true, but they do not hold the same credibility as what is stated directly.
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"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: regarding Cain - 10/7/2008 5:50:01 PM
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GrahamCracker
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It is quite possible that Cain was told. However, scripture simply doesn't tell us that they were supposed to bring an animal sacrifice. It certainly makes sense that an animal sacrifice pictured death from sin in a more graphic fashion than the death of vegetation.
It is also quite possible that if Cain were actually more sincere that he would have taken animal sacrificial death so seriously that he would have actually offered a lamb or something.
Unfortunately, as others have said--we are not told.
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Larry
Sure we're under the law, everybody knows that!
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. (Heb 10:13)
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RE: regarding Cain - 10/7/2008 5:52:11 PM
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GrahamCracker
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LCannon
How it they know what was a acceptable sacrifice? Genesis 3:21 looking forward to Jesus.
How did they know to sacrifice? Genesis 3:21 again and by God's example Adam/Eve taught their children and so. Cain had no excuse other then arrogance.
How did they know that Genesis 3:21 pictured the blood sacrifice of Jesus and was analogous to animal blood sacrifice?
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Larry
Sure we're under the law, everybody knows that!
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. (Heb 10:13)
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RE: regarding Cain - 10/7/2008 6:04:44 PM
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Zhi
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Well, let's look at the passage.
Genesis 4:3. In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the Lord.
4. But Abel brought fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The LORD looked with favor on Abel and his offering,
5. but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast.
6. Then the LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast?
7. If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must master it."
I've bolded what I think are key points.
Cain brought "some fruits". Abel brought "fat portions" of the "firstborn of his flock".
Given that grain and wine offerings are proscribed in the Law right along with animal sacrifice, it's obviously not the "fruits of the soil" versus "flock" part that's causing the issue here. It's the "some" versus "fat portions", a clear indication of a glaring contrast in quality.
Apparently, Cain knew better (see v.6 & 7). What the specific instructions for the offerings were isn't really clear, but it's clear that Cain knew what was "right", and didn't do it. This is further supported by the fact that instead of fixing what was wrong with the sacrifice, or asking God how to make it right, Cain immediately decides to commit premeditated murder against Abel. That should be a pretty clear indication of where his heart was, shouldn't it?
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The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: regarding Cain - 10/7/2008 6:25:29 PM
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Zhi
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Yeah, you and several people had pointed it out, but I thought it would be easier to see if we just went over the verses :)
It's always been fascinating to me, Cain's reaction. God tells him point-blank that he knows better and that he's in danger and needs to pull it together, and the VERY NEXT VERSE Cain takes Abel out to the field and murders him. In a single generation, people have gone from the innocence of the Garden to premeditated murder of their own sibling simply because they're unwilling to give God His due and jealous because the brother did. The progression is simply astounding.
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The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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